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Thread: Police shooting!!

  1. #1
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Police shooting!!

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/15...lice-shooting/

    NEW YORK – Police say two bystanders were wounded during a police shooting on a crowded street in midtown Manhattan.
    It happened just before 10 p.m. Saturday at 42nd Street and Eighth Avenue near the Port Authority Bus Terminal.
    Police say officers saw a man on foot weaving erratically through traffic and sometimes blocking vehicles. After approaching him they say the man reached into his pocket as if grabbing a weapon, and two officers fired shots.


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/15...#ixzz2eyEIxzj4
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-15-2013 at 01:25 PM. Reason: Corrected misleading title
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  2. #2
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Goes to my tenet 'The only good citizen is a dead citizen', the more the better. I'm sure the ones wounded must have done -something- wrong. /sarcasm

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    Oh, for sure. Don't'cha know that everyone commits at least three crimes each day? I saw it on the Internet, a meme.
    Hail TRUMP Victory. Hail TRUMP Sieg! Hail TRUMP Siegreich!

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    "But only the police should have guns".?????????????????????????????????????????
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
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  5. #5
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    2 bystanders wounded as police fire at UNARMED person.


    America needs to DEMAND that LE nationwide adopt "do not fire unless fired upon" ROE. If they don't like it they can get a different job.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    NYPD using the crowd as a backstop again.

    No news here. SOP.

  7. #7
    Regular Member minarchist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    2 bystanders wounded as police fire at UNARMED person.


    America needs to DEMAND that LE nationwide adopt "do not fire unless fired upon" ROE. If they don't like it they can get a different job.
    Every time one of these monsters shoots an innocent person it should be forced to do backbreaking labor for life, with the profits derived therefrom being sent to the victim's family or next of kin.

  8. #8
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    I am liking all of the comments to my thread so far.
    It is crazy to me to read that cops can just shoot AT a guy, in a crowd, and MISS, but it is AOK!
    The cops just cant let anybody get away with scaring them!

    Also, I want to thank grapeshot for "correcting" my "misleading" thread title!
    It was "Just another Police Shooting", glad I am that he corrected that for me,
    I wonder what I would do without his guidance?
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    2 bystanders wounded as police fire at UNARMED person.


    America needs to DEMAND that LE nationwide adopt "do not fire unless fired upon" ROE. If they don't like it they can get a different job.
    I will make no such demand. The same "reasonable person" doctrine that applies to me should apply to them. They should also be just as responsible as me for what happens to their rounds once they leave the gun.

  10. #10
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    2 bystanders wounded as police fire at UNARMED person.


    America needs to DEMAND that LE nationwide adopt "do not fire unless fired upon" ROE. If they don't like it they can get a different job.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  11. #11
    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    2 bystanders wounded as police fire at UNARMED person.


    America needs to DEMAND that LE nationwide adopt "do not fire unless fired upon" ROE. If they don't like it they can get a different job.
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I will make no such demand. The same "reasonable person" doctrine that applies to me should apply to them. They should also be just as responsible as me for what happens to their rounds once they leave the gun.
    Agreed. Although I think it has gone too far when a LEO can fire on someone who just reaches into their pocket, I would not want them or us to have to wait to defend ourselves until we are being fired upon.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well,,, thank you Eric,,, some fool had to take this thread off topic by making a personal attack for an opinion!

    But, leave it to an under age, immature, Statist to question the reasonableness
    of requiring that cops not shoot unarmed men
    of that they should not use innocent bystanders as a back stop!

    Makes a guy wonder,,, Just WHO is Stupid???
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  13. #13
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    Agreed. Although I think it has gone too far when a LEO can fire on someone who just reaches into their pocket, I would not want them or us to have to wait to defend ourselves until we are being fired upon.
    At least, we and the cops should wait until they pull out a gun, or a cell phone, or a wallet, or maybe just a pointed finger!

    I kid I kid,,,, nobody should shoot anybody, unless and until they are sure of that, "special imminent threat"!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  14. #14
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    I agree with Grapeshot--the thread title needed adjusting.

    It should have read, "NYPD uses bystanders as backstop. Again." (Thanks to Marshaul)


    Now, why would GS soften the title of a thread on something as outrageous as this?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  15. #15
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    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    If the police can't be held to a higher standard than I would be, then what the hell good are they?

    Anybody can shoot someone.
    Last edited by marshaul; 09-16-2013 at 10:55 AM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Not your run-o-the-mill anti-gunner.....they don't have guns. This is why they work very hard to increase the scope of police powers and to reduce any chance of holding a thug cop accountable for his thuggery.

    Other than that you are right.

  18. #18
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Well,,, thank you Eric,,, some fool had to take this thread off topic by making a personal attack for an opinion!

    But, leave it to an under age, immature, Statist to question the reasonableness
    of requiring that cops not shoot unarmed men
    of that they should not use innocent bystanders as a back stop!

    Makes a guy wonder,,, Just WHO is Stupid???
    Except said image was directed at someone who thinks the police should be restricted from ever shooting people who don't guns and shoot first. Which is stupid, he seems to think that it is not acceptable to prevent use of deadly force with deadly force in general. Hence he rates an insult for having the mindset of an anti-gunner. If somebody looks like they're pointing a gun at you do you have to wait until being shot at to react
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Imagine for a moment that instead of cops, this had been one of us extricated into the situation somehow. Would putting one's hands in pockets and then pulling them out with a finger pointed at you meet the requirement for REASONABLE fear of imminent death or great bodily harm? (this is the situation as related to me by the radio news) I highly doubt it. Cops should be held accountable to POSITIVELY identify the source of their reasonable fear. A finger won't hurt you, unless you work at the Surry Ferry.

    Additionally, 2 bystanders hit?!?! NYPD are just getting ridiculous, especially since the crazy guy could did not represent a great harm to anyone and could have been subdued by other methods. If those other methods are too hard for you, then don't be a cop.

  20. #20
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defrock View Post
    Imagine for a moment that instead of cops, this had been one of us extricated into the situation somehow. Would putting one's hands in pockets and then pulling them out with a finger pointed at you meet the requirement for REASONABLE fear of imminent death or great bodily harm? (this is the situation as related to me by the radio news) I highly doubt it. Cops should be held accountable to POSITIVELY identify the source of their reasonable fear. A finger won't hurt you, unless you work at the Surry Ferry.

    Additionally, 2 bystanders hit?!?! NYPD are just getting ridiculous, especially since the crazy guy could did not represent a great harm to anyone and could have been subdued by other methods. If those other methods are too hard for you, then don't be a cop.
    Finger at night from a suspect who's already been fleeing.

    Two bystanders were grazed and suffered minor injuries, it's at best a civil matter. The check is probably already on the way from the city...

    However if there is real reform to be made, a citizen ought to sue with the claim that NYPD command staff are responsible due to the 12 pound trigger on the glocks
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 09-16-2013 at 12:17 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  21. #21
    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Finger at night from a suspect who's already been fleeing.

    Two bystanders were grazed and suffered minor injuries, it's at best a civil matter. The check is probably already on the way from the city...

    However if there is real reform to be made, a citizen ought to sue with the claim that NYPD command staff are responsible due to the 12 pound trigger on the glocks
    Stop being an apologist for the state. If a citizen did this they would be nailed to the wall, lose their 2A rights, and probably be in the grey bar hotel for a very long time. This is not a civil matter, it is criminal! I have no quarrel with LEO's, but they need to be held accountable when they screw up. Innocents were shot! NOT OK! I don't care who is behind the trigger.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Finger at night from a suspect who's already been fleeing.


    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Two bystanders were grazed and suffered minor injuries, it's at best a civil matter. The check is probably already on the way from the city...


    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    However if there is real reform to be made, a citizen ought to sue with the claim that NYPD command staff are responsible due to the 12 pound trigger on the glocks


    The poster above me got it right.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    ...due to the 12 pound trigger on the glocks
    How often was shooting bystanders an issue when they were using DA revolvers?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  24. #24
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    After approaching him they say the man reached into his pocket as if grabbing a weapon, and two officers fired shots.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    America needs to DEMAND that LE nationwide adopt "do not fire unless fired upon" ROE. If they don't like it they can get a different job.
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Except said image was directed at someone who thinks the police should be restricted from ever shooting people who don't guns and shoot first. Which is stupid, he seems to think that it is not acceptable to prevent use of deadly force with deadly force in general. Hence he rates an insult for having the mindset of an anti-gunner. If somebody looks like they're pointing a gun at you do you have to wait until being shot at to react
    Your strawman is showing...
    The cops were not reacting to a gun!
    The cops were not reacting to the threat of deadly force!
    The cops were OVER reacting to a man with his hand in his pocket!

    The cops never reacted to someone that looked like they were pointing a gun at them, nor a cell phone, nor a wallet, nor even a pointed finger!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  25. #25
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    It may have been an attempted "suicide by cop"

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Finger at night from a suspect who's already been fleeing.

    Two bystanders were grazed and suffered minor injuries, it's at best a civil matter. The check is probably already on the way from the city...

    However if there is real reform to be made, a citizen ought to sue with the claim that NYPD command staff are responsible due to the 12 pound trigger on the glocks


    "Witness Mike Favilla told The News that the man took out his Metrocard and "aimed it at the cop. He was pretending like he had a gun...He definitely looked like he was high on something or was mentally off. He couldn’t walk in a straight line. He was limping and jerking his legs around.” Kelly added, "The individual was blocking traffic and appeared to be attempting to be hit by cars."

    http://gothamist.com/2013/09/15/cops..._female_by.php

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