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Thread: The Pledge of Allegiance to Obama

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Lightbulb The Pledge of Allegiance to Obama

    I am interested in hearing opinions on The Pledge of Allegiance. Do you say it? Do you allow your children to participate in saying it?

    In my case, I am thankful for the freedoms that been fought for by brave Americans throughout the history of this country, but I pledge allegiance only to God. Also, the Pledge was created in 1892 by a socialist named Francis Bellamy and I ain't a socialist, thank you very much! Keep in mind, 1892 was a long time after the birth of our country so the Pledge is not exactly straight from the likes George Washington. Another thing is that opting out of the pledge is actually more patriotic, as our Founding Fathers fought for freedom of speech and could be said to have been against compulsory unification of opinion.

    What are your thoughts?

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    First, it's not a pledge to the President, it's
    "to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands".
    http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

    And yes, I say the pledge, the non-religious (1923) version.
    Generally it's once a month, at the opening of a meeting.


    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/allegiance

    loyalty to a person, country, group, etc.
    the fidelity owed by a ... citizen to a ... government
    devotion or loyalty to a person, group, or cause

    I see no conflict between loyalty to one's country and to one's imaginary friend.
    In fact, many people here make a big deal over their loyalty to the USA, protect the Constitution at all costs, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

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    The Pledge of Allegiance to Obama

    When I was a HS teacher, I got the Pledge reinstated at our school.

    These days, I no longer fly the American Flag. The Republic for which it stands no longer is in operation. I fly the Gadsden Flag. If our Republic is ever restored, I will again fly its flag.


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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    My thoughts? A topic desiring to become a issue.

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    My thoughts? A topic desiring to become a issue.
    Eh?

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The Pledge of Allegiance is settle "law." No citizen is required to recite it....non-issue.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    A few years ago I saw a video of a group of Black kids singing an 'ode' to obooba. Virtually identical to the children who sang a similar ode to Hitler. Until this pos is out of the 'white' house, this country will stay in the dump. "To the republik" should be the new spelling until we can take out the trash.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The Pledge of Allegiance is settle "law." No citizen is required to recite it....non-issue.
    Not reciting can have serious social ramifications, however. Also, perhaps we should close down all the sub-forums for states in which OC is already legal because it is a "non-issue."

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Hyperbole and deflection.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    My wife has her own take on it, having grown up unwillingly Soviet, coupled with seeing the results of the "Great Patriotic War" with Germany. I have not for a great number of years felt any need to recite this pledge, nor do I feel any need for my children to do so. If they decide they wish to say the pledge, I will gladly sit down and educate them on the exact meaning and historical significance of the pledge and allow them to decide for themselves.
    Last edited by carolina guy; 09-16-2013 at 02:22 PM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Hyperbole and deflection.
    I guess if you call having mobs threaten your life, fear of being tarred and feathered and having to use shotguns to protect your family and friends "hyperbole", then so be it. But you might benefit from a little history lesson on the Jehovah's Witnesses (of which I am not one of btw) who found their world upside down because their children would not say the Pledge:

    http://debs.indstate.edu/a505p4_1941.pdf
    Last edited by independence; 09-16-2013 at 02:45 PM. Reason: typo

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Re: The Pledge of Allegiance to Obama

    I refused to stand or recite the pledge at an athletic event. I felt some cold stares.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    How many people who recite the pledge cheat on their taxes?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member DarthBrute's Avatar
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    Re: The Pledge of Allegiance to Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    When I was a HS teacher, I got the Pledge reinstated at our school.

    These days, I no longer fly the American Flag. The Republic for which it stands no longer is in operation. I fly the Gadsden Flag. If our Republic is ever restored, I will again fly its flag.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I refused to stand or recite the pledge at an athletic event. I felt some cold stares.
    Serving in the Navy for 10 years now and these comments make me sick. I'm all for Freedom of Speech. Say what you want, do what you want but never disrespect the flag. I don't like Obama more than the next guy on here. But that Flag is a symbol.

    It is a symbol of what we as individuals as citizens of the United States can be.
    It is a symbol of those who paid the price for freedom in this country.
    It is a symbol of what we once were and still go back to.

    Turning your back on it means turning your back on the very ideals that made this country great.

    Not standing during athletic events? Well I forgot that you're a nutjob and probably live in a hole making out with your sister because she's safe. Put your tinfoil hat back on zac and crawl back to whatever womb gave excruciatingly painful birth to your giant head full of air.

    Oh and the picture posted by OP? That was actually how the flag was saluted back then before ww2. It was Hitler's regime that ruined that stance. During WW2 it was suggested that we place our hands over our hearts instead. Much like the swastika, its meaning was ruined by the Nazi's.

    Please do not disrespect the flag. It is the very symbol of our bill of rights. The very symbol that we preach about every day on these forums. You cannot stand up for a right given and blessed upon you by our constituion and not support the very symbol that was carried, bled for, and died for those rights we hold so dear.

    Thank you.

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    I did not turn my back on it. Your inability to understand what I said makes ME sick.

    I love the Republic for which it stands. It just isn't around here right now. So I choose to fly the symbol of fighting to create it in support of the fight to restore it.

    Oh, and I served in the Air Force for twenty years.

    So don't play the I-am-more-patriotic-than-thou card. That is what is sickening.
    Last edited by eye95; 09-16-2013 at 10:07 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I care far more about how people act than I do about some mindless, yes, mindless recitation of allegiance, especially when the first thing on the list is a symbol.
    Last edited by MAC702; 09-16-2013 at 10:14 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthBrute View Post
    Serving in the Navy for 10 years now and these comments make me sick. I'm all for Freedom of Speech. Say what you want, do what you want but never disrespect the flag. I don't like Obama more than the next guy on here. But that Flag is a symbol.

    It is a symbol of what we as individuals as citizens of the United States can be.
    It is a symbol of those who paid the price for freedom in this country.
    It is a symbol of what we once were and still go back to.

    Turning your back on it means turning your back on the very ideals that made this country great.

    Not standing during athletic events? Well I forgot that you're a nutjob and probably live in a hole making out with your sister because she's safe. Put your tinfoil hat back on zac and crawl back to whatever womb gave excruciatingly painful birth to your giant head full of air.

    Oh and the picture posted by OP? That was actually how the flag was saluted back then before ww2. It was Hitler's regime that ruined that stance. During WW2 it was suggested that we place our hands over our hearts instead. Much like the swastika, its meaning was ruined by the Nazi's.

    Please do not disrespect the flag. It is the very symbol of our bill of rights. The very symbol that we preach about every day on these forums. You cannot stand up for a right given and blessed upon you by our constituion and not support the very symbol that was carried, bled for, and died for those rights we hold so dear.

    Thank you.
    Lol. To me the flag is a symbol of devotion to the state and its matrix of propaganda and control, and I shall "disrespect" it every chance I get. Please quit "serving" me and get a real job in the productive sector. I didn't ask for your help and this country, nay, this world, can't stand more of the actions of the Empire's "service" men and women.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    The Pledge of Allegiance to Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Lol. To me the flag is a symbol of devotion to the state and its matrix of propaganda and control, and I shall "disrespect" it every chance I get. Please quit "serving" me and get a real job in the productive sector. I didn't ask for your help and this country, nay, this world, can't stand more of the actions of the Empire's "service" men and women.
    What he said was ugly, insulting others for their views. What you said is uglier and more hateful. Not you. What you said.


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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLDRmEpUcck

    Lets try to show SOME deference to other points of views. And that doesn't mean accept.

  20. #20
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    I am interested in hearing opinions on The Pledge of Allegiance. Do you say it? Do you allow your children to participate in saying it?

    In my case, I am thankful for the freedoms that been fought for by brave Americans throughout the history of this country, but I pledge allegiance only to God. Also, the Pledge was created in 1892 by a socialist named Francis Bellamy and I ain't a socialist, thank you very much! Keep in mind, 1892 was a long time after the birth of our country so the Pledge is not exactly straight from the likes George Washington. Another thing is that opting out of the pledge is actually more patriotic, as our Founding Fathers fought for freedom of speech and could be said to have been against compulsory unification of opinion.

    What are your thoughts?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg 
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    You've read my mind.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The Pledge of Allegiance is settle "law." No citizen is required to recite it....non-issue.
    I was required to say the pledge of allegiance in public school. I was given no option. What would have happened if I refused? I don't know, I was such a weenie I almost cried when I got in trouble for tapping my pencil on my desk, I wouldn't have dared refuse the instruction of a teacher.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthBrute View Post
    Serving in the Navy for 10 years now and these comments make me sick. I'm all for Freedom of Speech. Say what you want, do what you want but never disrespect the flag. I don't like Obama more than the next guy on here. But that Flag is a symbol.

    It is a symbol of what we as individuals as citizens of the United States can be.
    It is a symbol of those who paid the price for freedom in this country.
    It is a symbol of what we once were and still go back to.

    Turning your back on it means turning your back on the very ideals that made this country great.

    Not standing during athletic events? Well I forgot that you're a nutjob and probably live in a hole making out with your sister because she's safe. Put your tinfoil hat back on zac and crawl back to whatever womb gave excruciatingly painful birth to your giant head full of air.

    Oh and the picture posted by OP? That was actually how the flag was saluted back then before ww2. It was Hitler's regime that ruined that stance. During WW2 it was suggested that we place our hands over our hearts instead. Much like the swastika, its meaning was ruined by the Nazi's.

    Please do not disrespect the flag. It is the very symbol of our bill of rights. The very symbol that we preach about every day on these forums. You cannot stand up for a right given and blessed upon you by our constituion and not support the very symbol that was carried, bled for, and died for those rights we hold so dear.

    Thank you.
    Incorrect. Technically, it stands for the republic. (to the flag, and to the republic for which it stands)

    I don't pledge allegiance to the republic, or to the flag which represents it. Got a problem with that? Well, all I can say is, get in line. There's a whole bunch of nationalist pigs that have beat you to that punch.

    If you want to hold on to the flag as a symbol of all of those things, I completely support you in that. That is you exercising your freedom. But the flag representing those things is in your world and in your head, you shouldn't take offense because I've chosen not to play the same game or have the same imagination. To me the flag does not represent any of those things. I'll stand up next to you for those things, but I won't use the flag to represent those things and I won't recognize that it does represent those things.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 09-16-2013 at 11:27 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post

    If you want to hold on to the flag as a symbol of all of those things, I completely support you in that. That is you exercising your freedom. But the flag representing those things is in your world and in your head, you shouldn't take offense because I've chosen not to play the same game or have the same imagination. To me the flag does not represent any of those things. I'll stand up next to you for those things, but I won't use the flag to represent those things and I won't recognize that it does represent those things.
    Well said, perfect response, imo.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    I salute the flag, literally, as a former Air Force Officer, Aviator and combat Vietnam Veteran. It is a symbol of what this country was and what it must be again. That we are temporarily in a Marxist regime doesn't mean that hope has died. The flag represents those who have fought for this country and many who have died before letting that symbol be disrespected. I would show no respect for the tyrant who has brought vermin to the whitehouse, but he is not this country, merely an aberration. The freedoms that brave men and women fought and died for allows anyone to do as they please in this regard. Disrespect to the symbol of 'their' sacrifice tells a lot about those who would show it. We may be a 'republik' now, but I still have hope that will change.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    I salute the flag....
    Which is different than the Pledge of Allegiance.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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