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Thread: Open carry on own property with a school within 1000 feet???

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    Question Open carry on own property with a school within 1000 feet???

    Hey guys, first post on here - thanks for having me! My title pretty much says it. Can I open carry on my property (mowing the lawn, transporting my firearm to the car, etc), when there is a school basically just behind my house?

    I feel like I'm in a unique position here legally - without a concealed carry permit, you're only allowed to transport a firearm to your vehicle with said firearm NOT concealed (makes sense). But with a school within 1000 feet, am I breaking a law by having my firearm holstered on my own property while heading to my car or while sitting outside at night (again, on my own property) for example?

    Heck, while I'm at it, is it legal to carry my firearms in a range bag to and from my car without a ccw, or is that still considered concealed?

    Thanks in advance, I appreciate it!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO.

    The verbiage in the GFSZ Act provides the answers to you questions:


    The Gun Free School Zones Act states:[6]

    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

    (iii) that is— (I) not loaded; and (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

    (3) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone. (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm—

    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;

    (ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;

    (iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or

    (iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.

    (4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.
    Definitions

    Title 18 U.S.C. §921(25) The term “school zone” means— (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school. (26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgateway View Post
    Hey guys, first post on here - thanks for having me! My title pretty much says it. Can I open carry on my property (mowing the lawn, transporting my firearm to the car, etc), when there is a school basically just behind my house?

    I feel like I'm in a unique position here legally - without a concealed carry permit, you're only allowed to transport a firearm to your vehicle with said firearm NOT concealed (makes sense). But with a school within 1000 feet, am I breaking a law by having my firearm holstered on my own property while heading to my car or while sitting outside at night (again, on my own property) for example?

    Heck, while I'm at it, is it legal to carry my firearms in a range bag to and from my car without a ccw, or is that still considered concealed?

    Thanks in advance, I appreciate it!
    Im not familiar with colorado law, but if you are referring to federal school zone gun law

    The Gun Free School Zones Act of 1990 (18 U.S.C. § 922(q))

    it does not apply on: on private property not part of school grounds

    if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    Last edited by PALO; 09-16-2013 at 10:38 PM.

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    I think that answers my question

    So, if I understand that correctly, so long as I'm on my own property (loaded or not), that law does not apply? Hey, better to know than to be unsure.

    Thanks a lot. What a quick and informative response.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    Im not familiar with colorado law, but if you are referring to federal school zone gun law

    The Gun Free School Zones Act of 1990 (18 U.S.C. § 922(q))

    it does not apply on: on private property not part of school grounds

    if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    Agree, except it is the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1996 - the 1990 Act was found to be unconstitutional.

    Originally enacted in 1990
    (P.L. 101-647, Sec. 1702(b)(1))

    Overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court, April 26, 1995
    Re: Federalism; Congress exceeded its authority under Commerce Clause.
    (U.S. v. Lopez, 514 US 549)

    Reenacted by Congress, Sep. 30, 1996
    (P.L. 104-208)

    http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf

    http://vaguninfo.com/pages/gunfreeschools.htm
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-16-2013 at 10:58 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Agree, except it is the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1996 - the 1990 Act was found to be unconstitutional.

    Originally enacted in 1990
    (P.L. 101-647, Sec. 1702(b)(1))

    Overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court, April 26, 1995
    Re: Federalism; Congress exceeded its authority under Commerce Clause.
    (U.S. v. Lopez, 514 US 549)

    Reenacted by Congress, Sep. 30, 1996
    (P.L. 104-208)

    http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf

    http://vaguninfo.com/pages/gunfreeschools.htm
    My bad. Although the same provisions I mentioned are present in the 1996 version as well. So, same effect. But my bad

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    My bad. Although the same provisions I mentioned are present in the 1996 version as well. So, same effect. But my bad
    Nah, is good - close enough for a cigar as that portion of the Act was unchanged.

    Doubt the revised (1996) GFSZ Act will pass muster if it ever goes to court.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Thanks guys. So, the girlfriend just brought up another interesting question regarding that: Does that also apply to having a concealed firearm on my own property? If I or she is only going to conceal on our property, do we still need a ccw for that? That's in our plans, Ccw.... Just a long wait right now.

    And sorry if its a dumb question - we're just trying to be cautious in ensuring we're not negligent.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgateway View Post
    Thanks guys. So, the girlfriend just brought up another interesting question regarding that: Does that also apply to having a concealed firearm on my own property? If I or she is only going to conceal on our property, do we still need a ccw for that? That's in our plans, Ccw.... Just a long wait right now.

    And sorry if its a dumb question - we're just trying to be cautious in ensuring we're not negligent.
    There are 2 separate items.

    (B)(i) on private property - permit not required

    (B)(ii) Permit required from that state when carrying within 1000' of school. This is separate from (B)(i) and does not cancel that exemption.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 09-16-2013 at 11:24 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Simple answer: if you're on your own property, do as you wish.
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PikesPeakMtnMan View Post
    Simple answer: if you're on your own property, do as you wish.
    The GFSZ Act does not require that you be on property controlled by you - only that it be private property.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Simple answer in CO is yes, open or concealed, on private property is legal. Best answer is get a CCW. Law is thereby vitiated. We have a school at the end of our block. With my CCW, I can walk on the sidewalk if front of it OCing being perfectly legal. CC is legal anywhere, and a gun can be--but must remain, in the car on school grounds.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    In May, while attending a planning session with members of the local PD, one of them tried to tell me that firearms are prohibited by state law from being within 1,000 feet of a school, regardless of whether in a vehicle, on a person, CHP or not.

    I sent him a polite e-mail with the real answer. He did not respond.

    The interesting thing is that during the few moments he was going on about it, the other officers in the room sort of looked a little embarrassed. They probably didn't want to correct the wayward officer with "civilians" in the room.

    The point, made thousands of times on these forums, is that law enforcement sometimes doesn't know the law they're entrusted to enforce.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    In May, while attending a planning session with members of the local PD, one of them tried to tell me that firearms are prohibited by state law from being within 1,000 feet of a school, regardless of whether in a vehicle, on a person, CHP or not.

    I sent him a polite e-mail with the real answer. He did not respond.

    The interesting thing is that during the few moments he was going on about it, the other officers in the room sort of looked a little embarrassed. They probably didn't want to correct the wayward officer with "civilians" in the room.

    The point, made thousands of times on these forums, is that law enforcement sometimes doesn't know the law they're entrusted to enforce.
    All too frequently, we the people, do not know the law(s) we are expected to obey.

    If the blind will lead the blind, then the blind will follow the blind.....at least some of them. P. T. Barnum said something to that effect
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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