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Thread: Starbucks new Firearm Policy? Found this online..

  1. #1
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    Starbucks new Firearm Policy? Found this online..

    This came from another forum.. looks legit.. anyone got any info on it?
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    I have the same thing, just posted it to our state forum 'cause we've had a once a month meet-n-greet at a SBX for several years now, no problems, they love us.
    Guess we'll be finding someplace else.
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/ch...5/posts?page=1


    ETA:
    Some people on FB report calling corporate & being told they know nothing about this.
    It could be a nicely done hoax, in which case I hope people are polite when they call, SBX realizes how much support they have in the 2A community, and won't consider making this real.

    800-Starbuc (800-782-7282)
    Mon – Fri 5 AM – 8 PM (PST)
    Sat 6 AM – 4 PM (PST)

    http://customerservice.starbucks.com/app/contact/ask


    ETA2:
    It's real.
    http://www.starbucks.com/blog/an-ope...d-schultz/1268

    "I am writing today with a respectful request that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas."

    The stock closed at 76.04 on the 17th, before this really hit the media (social media, that is).
    Let's see what it does in the next day, week, month.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 09-18-2013 at 02:19 AM.
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    Re: Starbucks new Firearm Policy? Found this online..

    I posted a link the same story. Pafoa is my go to firearms forum. The person who posted it is respected and it was confirmed by a phonecall to Starbucks by another highly respected member.
    Last edited by internet troll; 09-17-2013 at 10:36 PM.

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    It appears I-ANAL their ban is moot without authority to make effective/constructive trespass notice. No sign, no notice, no disruption, carry on! To be clear, $5 coffee is of no interest to any rational being.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    It appears I-ANAL their ban is moot without authority to make effective/constructive trespass notice. No sign, no notice, no disruption, carry on! To be clear, $5 coffee is of no interest to any rational being.
    Neever even stepped a foot in a starbucks ... who needs a five buck coffee like Nightmare said ... people who like to flush $$$ down the toilet.

    As I said before, they were always were antis ... no company is pro-citizen carry.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    It appears I-ANAL their ban is moot without authority to make effective/constructive trespass notice. No sign, no notice, no disruption, carry on! To be clear, $5 coffee is of no interest to any rational being.
    Lack of enforcement is not the issue. Official "unwelcome" is. Our money goes accordingly.

    As for the expense of their coffee, apparently you are not their target audience. No worries. Many people use Starbucks for more than just nothing but a cup of coffee.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    We drink a lot of coffee, at home and while out and about. In the past several years, since learning of Starbucks' neutral stand with regard to carry, we have made a special effort and gone out of our way to visit and bring dollars their way. And we tipped well.

    As of now that's history. We have literally dozens of alternatives for our favorite tasty beverage, both large chains and mom-and-pop shops too. And we have always been welcome at all of them.

    Bad move, Starbucks. Bad move, and in the wrong direction.
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    ABC Starbucks Says Guns Unwelcome, Though Not Banned. ABC Snooze

    Starbucks says guns are no longer welcome in its cafes, though it is stopping short of an outright ban on firearms. The fine line that the retailer is walking to address the concerns of both gun rights and gun control advocates reflects how heated the issue has become, particularly in light of recent mass shootings. [ ... ]

    "We will not ask you to leave," he said.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireS...anned-20288279

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...647_story.html

    $tarbuck$ legal case for a charge of trespass is much diminished.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 09-18-2013 at 12:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapmonkay View Post
    I would like to clarify two points. First, this is a request and not an outright ban. Why? Because we want to give responsible gun owners the chance to respect our request—and also because enforcing a ban would potentially require our partners to confront armed customers, and that is not a role I am comfortable asking Starbucks partners to take on. Second, we know we cannot satisfy everyone. For those who oppose “open carry,” we believe the legislative and policy-making process is the proper arena for this debate, not our stores. For those who champion “open carry,” please respect that Starbucks stores are places where everyone should feel relaxed and comfortable. The presence of a weapon in our stores is unsettling and upsetting for many of our customers.
    What of those "relaxed and comfortable" where welcome armed? Short shrift! https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/short_shrift
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    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    I tried to register at Starbucks, but to no avail. I went through the whole routine of including allowing third party cookies, widgets and trackers. Ticks me off that still wasn't enough. So I e-mail Schultz instead. This is what I said-

    Mr. Schultz, I am not a "gun grabber" nor am I a "tea bagger", but I am a man that has patronized your business repeatedly because of the previous stance of allowing open carry in your establishments. Though I do not care for guns, I respect them and they are a Constitutional right. And now you change your mind.

    The pro-gun community has done you no harm. That's ok, you are a business and you may do as you wish. And so shall I. I feel far more comfortable in a cafe with people open carrying responsibly than I do a cafe where employees act recklessly out of disregard for their customers (the last two Starbucks I was at, one in Copper Mtn. CO and the other in Rock Springs WY Safeway).

    Like I said sir, "that's ok sir", as I can get better tasting coffee cheaper elsewhere. Bringing you money serves no purpose clearly and I thank you for setting me straight on that.

    BTW, I started a profile on your Starbucks site, and no matter what I do it's never enough so I could respond to your letter regarding this issue. Well, if you have such disregard for the computer privacy of your clients, then your clients can clearly find a much better corporations to do business with. Having to accept third party cookies as well as unrelated widgets and trackers is completely uncalled for. To the extent sir that I compare it equivalent to asking to see my wife's underwear. Now you HAVE taken the cake. And as such my money spends beautifully anywhere you're not.
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    I never went to a Starbucks until they made it clear that they respected my right to carry. Since then, I have spent a small fortune at Starbucks. They now indicate that they no longer respect my right to carry. I will no longer spend money at Starbucks. Their choice. And, while they do not respect my rights. I respect theirs.

    Moving on.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    It appears I-ANAL their ban is moot without authority to make effective/constructive trespass notice. No sign, no notice, no disruption, carry on! To be clear, $5 coffee is of no interest to any rational being.
    I now feel even better about not running to the nearest Starbucks to throw my money at them, just because they wouldn't have told me to leave due to having a shotgun slung on my back.

    I think the whole "Starbucks is great and supports the 2nd amendment!" thing was way blown out of proportion, and not entirely true to begin with.

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    Starbucks never said they were pro 2nd amendment. They are pro profit and this decision the fact that guns make some of their customers uncomfortable.

    For those of you who carried an AR into Starbucks to "support" them, are you surprised at this request by Starbucks?

    It's time for these OC protests to reevaluate their tactics because they cause us to lose places we can open carry, not gain them.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coorsleftfield View Post
    Starbucks never said they were pro 2nd amendment. They are pro profit and this decision the fact that guns make some of their customers uncomfortable.

    For those of you who carried an AR into Starbucks to "support" them, are you surprised at this request by Starbucks?

    It's time for these OC protests to reevaluate their tactics because they cause us to lose places we can open carry, not gain them.
    +1. Just like Walmart, Bestbuy, etc, etc. They never were truly pro-gun. They just said whatever state law says.
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    Some of you need to pull your head out of your sphincter, and take a large whiff of reality. YOU ARE NOT WELCOME at Starbucks. Your gun-toting presence is unwanted. If you can't understand that, then you need to get an education.

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    You know I saw this coming as some gun rights activists just cannot leave well enough alone. Starbucks never was pro gun they were neutral. However both the pro gun people and the antigun people had to put them in the unfortunate place of being in the middle of the issue.

    The fact is if the pro gun people would have just gone to Starbucks when they wanted Starbucks OC or CC whatever and not made a big deal about the issue and just been happy that they were left alone I really doubt this would have happened.

    However people just had to push their agenda on private property even though Starbucks made it clear they wanted no part of this. I blame the pro gun people for reacting to every move of the anti as this is what I feel tipped the balance.

    And further I think the anti is smarter than many of us give them credit. They knew that their boycott would not affect Starbucks at all but that the pro gun community would react with a demonstration at Starbucks and that that this would irritate the CEO and likely lead to this result.

    We are our own worst enemy as we cannot seem to switch gears from what works in public place to what works in a private business.

    This is simply my opinion and not any organizations stance that I am aware of.
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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    No, Starbucks was not pro-gun and likely corporate leans anti-gun. But they just didn't want it to be an issue. They were essentially libertarian in their stance ... carry/don't carry, just follow the local law where the store is and leave us out of the debate, just like WalMart. But then we haven't been rallying at WalMart have we...

    WE made it a problem Well, the WE among us who forced Starbucks into the middle of the conversation. Starbucks doesn't want to be part of a gun issue, they want to sell coffee. I have been off this site for a while, in part, because I got tired of the arguments about and the direction of the activism. Well, the activists who dragged Starbucks into the middle screwed it for everyone. All you had to do was just go about your business OC. Not hold rallies, not carry ARs into Starbucks, just go there normally like you would any where else to shop, visit, eat, etc. Using $2 bills, perhaps somewhat effective to help indicate to management how many 2A supporters visit. But geesh, most OCers are not likely to be their majority customer base. My guess is that the majority of those who willingly pay $5+ for a 20 oz coffee are not the same as the majority of those who non-work related carry a gun daily.

    Starbuck's response that it is not a "ban" but a request, shows that they still don't want to be in the middle of it. They do not want pro-2A rallies at their stores. Period. They want you to come in, buy some coffee and baked goods, eat, drink, leave just like any other coffee bar type place. If OC activists who would go to Starbucks anyway, go there OC to get coffee and don't make a deal out of it, this will all be forgotten by everyone soon enough. But if we boycott or make this an even bigger deal they will go to a ban.

    The whole Starbucks 2A thing was pushed too far. I saw this coming 2 years ago when all the "support Starbucks" (by making their primary customer base uncomfortable essentially) started. In my lurking on the forum the last year I saw more and more of this train wreck coming. I appreciate the passion and even the broader strategy, however, the tactics in this case sucked and have now resulted in quite negative results. The best thing we can do is to take a deep-breath and let it go. Just shut-up about Starbucks. If you wouldn't go there without a pro 2A issue, then don't go there and if you are a customer irrelevant to the 2A issue, then by all means patronize them OC and enjoy their products and this will all die down soon enough.

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    $tarbuck$ new Firearm NON-policy. "You're either with US, or against US!" Wikipedia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27..._or_against_us Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License

    The phrase "you're either with us, or against us" and similar variations are used to depict situations as being polarized and to force witnesses, bystanders, or others unaligned with some form of pre-existing conflict to either become allies of the speaking party or lose favor. The implied consequence of not joining the team effort is to be deemed an enemy.

    The statement generally is a descriptive statement identifying the beliefs of the speaker(s), and thus state a basic assumption, not a logical conclusion. It may also be interpreted as a speech act. It is sometimes interpreted as a splitting or a false dilemma, which is an informal fallacy.

    Some see the statement as a way of persuading others to choose sides in a conflict which does not afford the luxury of neutrality. Only when there is absolutely no middle ground or additional alternatives does the phrase hold validity as a logical conclusion. The phrases are a form of argumentation.

    • Jesus said, "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters" (Matthew 12:30), but also "Whoever is not against us is for us" (Luke 9:50; Mark 9:40)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    +1. Just like Walmart, Bestbuy, etc, etc. They never were truly pro-gun. They just said whatever state law says.
    but at least they are pro states rights, really can't ask a mega business to be better than that cause you know that if they don't allow ocing then the state allowance need to be changed , so actually they let the state make their policy,better then the feds ,
    looks like starbucks wants to be added to the list of killing fields , by going gun free zone ,altho they aren't going hard line with it yet ....can you imagine the statement an attorney would make when repensenting a shooting victim , so are you saying that you actually made it easier for the shooter when you went gun free and didn't provide armed security.
    I don't believe in 5buck coffee but I would have bought it at a meeting just for the support factor of the 2a ...I think that alone makes it worth it
    Our ancesters, veterens, and people of the service gave and are giving their time and sacrifice to preserve and defend our rights . it''s up to us the people to show appreciation by not sacrificing but investing time to exercise and preserve those rights.......the bushwacker...

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coorsleftfield
    Starbucks never said they were pro 2nd amendment. They are pro profit
    If true, they're choosing a strange way to go about it, turning away customers & angering a large portion of the US population.

    It's time for these OC protests to reevaluate their tactics because they cause us to lose places we can open carry, not gain them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900
    +1. Just like Walmart, Bestbuy, etc.
    ? I hope I'm reading this wrong, but did WM &BB declare themselves criminal empowerment zones too?


    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver
    Starbuck's response that it is not a "ban" but a request, shows that they still don't want to be in the middle of it... They want you to come in, buy some coffee and baked goods, eat, drink, leave just like any other coffee bar type place. If OC activists who would go to Starbucks anyway, go there OC to get coffee and don't make a deal out of it, this will all be forgotten by everyone soon enough. But if we boycott or make this an even bigger deal they will go to a ban.
    if you are a customer irrelevant to the 2A issue, then by all means patronize them OC and enjoy their products and this will all die down soon enough.
    Did you miss where the CEO said we're not welcome?
    "I am writing today with a respectful request that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas."
    Sounds like company policy to me. And I don't think they'd win in court claiming "we're not prohibiting people". When the CEO makes a 'polite request', esp. when he reinforces his "don't come here" via national media, that's company policy.

    So no, don't go there OC, or cc, and preferably don't go there at all to spend money.
    Maybe stop by your local store with a "no guns, no money" card & tell them how sorry you are they don't want you as a customer any more. Use the drivethrough if you don't have a car safe to leave your pistol for 5 min.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Did you miss where the CEO said we're not welcome?
    "I am writing today with a respectful request that customers no longer bring firearms into our stores or outdoor seating areas."
    Sounds like company policy to me. And I don't think they'd win in court claiming "we're not prohibiting people". When the CEO makes a 'polite request', esp. when he reinforces his "don't come here" via national media, that's company policy.

    So no, don't go there OC, or cc, and preferably don't go there at all to spend money.
    Maybe stop by your local store with a "no guns, no money" card & tell them how sorry you are they don't want you as a customer any more. Use the drivethrough if you don't have a car safe to leave your pistol for 5 min.
    No, but I also saw where he said it was not a ban. They are threading the needle here. The CEO makes clear that the reason for this is that activists put them in the middle of the debate and they just wanted to stay out of it. I assume that not being a "ban" they are also not going to post no firearms signs. Furthermore, I wouldn't know anything about this unless someone had mentioned it to me as I have been weaning myself from being a news/political hound for a bit for my mental health. So, if you OC but do not follow the news and are not active on firearms forums which describes many people and since Starbucks is apparently not posting no gun signs, and since the CEO says employees are not to confront armed people or to ask them to leave, how would all those gun carrying people know about this? How would they know it is "policy"? They won't! And they will carry in the store and no employee will say anything and no one will care. It will be like it was before activists made it all a big deal in the first place (way to "normalize" open carry )

    IMO, this whole thing is for putting 2A activists on notice. The corp has asked more than once for people to not make guns an issue in and around their stores. Carry, don't carry, no one cares as long as you don't make a deal out of it or draw attention to it - they are a coffee shop not a gun shop. Their requests were blatantly ignored. So how do they get rid of the activists, placate their hippie customer base and maintain their generally libertarian position of just follow the local and state laws? Tell the 2A types that they are not welcome with their guns but decline to set up any enforcement mechanism internally or externally for that position. If they really wanted to keep out anyone carrying they would have announced that they were posting no firearm signs nationwide.

    This is corporate speak. This is a follow-up, but this time screaming, to repeated ignored requests to activists to leave them out of the whole gun thing entirely so they can just sell coffee dammit. Now I'm sure YMMV regarding this depending on where the store is located. The only nearby Starbucks to me is in a city in which OC is illegal anyway but I'll guarantee you that if my CC is printing (which it often is in town as it is not illegal to print and obviously printing is my protest to the OC restriction) that this store is not going to ask me to leave based on the "policy". I expect that many of those who have become well-known regulars at their local store are not going to have any issue continuing their regular visits as long as they aren't dragging a bunch of new people with them.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    My email to Starbucks:

    Goodbye Starbucks. Your recent decision to blame the gun owners of America for dragging you into the gun control debate has caused me to take my business elsewhere. Maybe you should have asked the anti-gun groups to leave you alone as much as you asked the law abiding gun owners to leave you alone.
    To be fair, they did. And, to be fair, the pro-gun groups dumped all over their requests as much as did the anti-gun groups by staging puerile "Starbucks appreciation days", in obvious contradiction to the stated preferences of the company.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coorsleftfield View Post
    For those of you who carried an AR into Starbucks to "support" them, are you surprised at this request by Starbucks?
    Exactly. Frankly, I blame all those folks for this.

    Frankly, I don't blame Starbucks for this decision (especially considering they still haven't actually banned anybody). I probably would have done the same thing, not because I'm anti-gun, but because I'm anti-being-disrespected in the manner displayed by these "supporters".

    I hope we can learn from this.
    Last edited by marshaul; 09-18-2013 at 02:33 PM.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    IMO, this whole thing is for putting 2A activists on notice. The corp has asked more than once for people to not make guns an issue in and around their stores. Carry, don't carry, no one cares as long as you don't make a deal out of it or draw attention to it - they are a coffee shop not a gun shop. Their requests were blatantly ignored. So how do they get rid of the activists, placate their hippie customer base and maintain their generally libertarian position of just follow the local and state laws? Tell the 2A types that they are not welcome with their guns but decline to set up any enforcement mechanism internally or externally for that position. If they really wanted to keep out anyone carrying they would have announced that they were posting no firearm signs nationwide.

    This is corporate speak. This is a follow-up, but this time screaming, to repeated ignored requests to activists to leave them out of the whole gun thing entirely so they can just sell coffee dammit.
    +1

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