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One in the chamber?

dingywingy

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
20
Location
Mesa Arizona
Hello OC, quick question... What are the laws regarding having your handgun loaded with one in the chamber? I've read something talking about condition 1 condition 2 but do not know what this means and if you have the time I would appreciate an explanation on what this means and if it is ok for me to open carry with a round in the chamber of my baby :)

And while your here and reading this post your thoughts on carrying your gun loaded and ready to go is it the only way to go? Do you feel its dangerous? Opinions are not illegal to have yet but they are working on it so express them freely but with humility and always respect others for what they think no matter how much you disagree because like it or not everyone can think what ever they want which is why I still love America and why I carry a gun, so that the first person to try and take away my free thinking can catch 13 hot ones :)

Thanks in advance
 

Tackett

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
54
Location
Charleston, wv
Personally, I think the quicker you can neutralize a threat, the better. In an emergency situation every second counts. The time it takes to chamber a round could be the deference between walking away or being carried away.

It all depends on whether or not you want to take that chance.
 
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JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
So long as the law in your state or jurisdiction allows one to legally carry a loaded firearm and does not prohibit having a cartridge in the chamber, IMHO one should always carry in Condition 1 -- loaded and ready to fire without having to rack the slide. As the previous poster indicated, the time it takes to "make ready" the firearm -- especially in adrenalin-fueled dangerous situations -- could mean the difference between living or dieing.
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
Hi - Dingy.

You should get yourself a copy of the Arizona Gun Owners Guide by Mr. Alan Korwin and read it cover to cover. That will get you a clear understanding of AZ gun laws. Also see the link at the top of the AZ forum for some useful links to laws until you can get the book.

To carry a pistol is a very real commitment to self defense. In my honest opinion those who carry without a round in the chamber are fence sitters. Meaning it is a do or don't do situation, not a "maybe" do one. It may make sense for some quirky pistols??? To borrow a line from the karate kid. "Karate do yes, or karate do no, Danielson! No maybe! Like man who walks in middle of road, sooner or later get squished like a grape!" :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3lQSxNdr3c
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Time necessary to rack the slide to load is the least of the reasons to carry with one in the chamber.

Will you always have two uninjured and unoccupied hands available for doing so? Loading is also a common time to have a malfunction, and that's when you are not stressed by a critical situation.

Modern sidearms are designed to be carried safely while fully loaded. Use an appropriate holster.

What if a bad guy is in the area and you want to make ready without making any noise?

EDIT: I've been told there is a holster in this video that can rack the slide for you: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b6e_1357090174
 
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azcdlfred

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
901
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
Some states define a loaded firearm with "one in the chamber." In Arizona, there is no such legal distinction. Whether a firearm is loaded or not, it is considered a "deadly weapon" in Arizona law.

Modern handguns are designed to be carried with a loaded chamber. They all have drop safeties and most, if not all, modern handguns have external safeties (Yes! Glocks have an external safety - it's on the front of the trigger).

Tactically, as others have pointed out, you want to carry a loaded firearm with one in the chamber. In a self-defense situation, you will have less than a second to react and get your pistol on target. Why handicap yourself with more time to get your gun into operating condition?

My experience has been that those who advocate carrying with an empty chamber are unfamiliar and/or unskilled in handling firearms.

Regarding "Condition of Pistol Readiness." It's a firearm term that doesn't see much use today, but here they are:

Condition ONE = The way you want to carry a 1911 or similar single-action semi-auto. Loaded with a magazine and one in the chamber with the safety engaged (i.e., cocked and locked).

Condition TWO = Normal carry for semi-auto double-action pistols. Loaded with a magazine but hammer (if you have one) down on loaded chamber. Safety engaged. NEVER carry a 1911 in Condition TWO.

Condition THREE = Loaded magazine but an empty chamber. The slide must be cycled to chamber a cartridge. Safety engaged.

Condition FOUR (also known as Embassy Carry) = Hammer down on an empty chamber and there is NO magazine in the gun. Safety engaged. Basically, you are carrying a useless tool.

Fred
 
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azcdlfred

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
901
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
Do you feel its dangerous?
It's dangerous only for those who choose (there is no such thing as an "accident" when it comes to firearms) to ignore basic safety rules.

Mechanically, modern pistols can only go bang when the trigger is pulled. Your firearm "safety" starts in the brain and ends at the tip of your finger. Keep it off the trigger and the gun will not fire, regardless of whatever internal or external safeties are or are not imbedded in the pistol. Here are the rules:

1. All guns are always loaded - in other words there is no distinction between a loaded gun or unloaded gun when it comes to handling a firearm.

2. Never let the muzzle cover (or point at) anything you are not willing to destroy (whether the gun is loaded or not). Than includes your own body parts. I've seen way too many people move their support hand in front of the muzzle. Earlier this year, at a local range, a woman shot herself in the hand as she was manipulating her pistol.

3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target. I witnessed a man shoot himself in the leg holstering his 1911 with the safety off and his finger on the trigger as he was pushing the pistol into the hoslter.

4. Be sure of your target and what is in line (in front and behind) with it.
 
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MattinWA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
278
Location
Spokane Washington
Carry by what makes you comfortable, tell anyone else who tries to intimidate you to "Bugger Off".

+1

I used to be uncomfortable with carrying one in chamber but after time (and research) I became more familiar and comfortable in my sidearm and its safeties, I now always carry condition 1
;)
 

HPmatt

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2013
Messages
1,467
Location
Dallas
can catch 13 hot ones :)

You sound pretty flippant to shoot to kill 13 times. If you find yourself in a situation that requires that action, it would be extremely serious and certainly altering both you and the perps lives.
 

March Hare

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
351
Location
Arridzona - Flatlander
Hello OC, quick question... What are the laws regarding having your handgun loaded with one in the chamber? I've read something talking about condition 1 condition 2 but do not know what this means and if you have the time I would appreciate an explanation on what this means and if it is ok for me to open carry with a round in the chamber of my baby :)

And while your here and reading this post your thoughts on carrying your gun loaded and ready to go is it the only way to go? Do you feel its dangerous? Opinions are not illegal to have yet but they are working on it so express them freely but with humility and always respect others for what they think no matter how much you disagree because like it or not everyone can think what ever they want which is why I still love America and why I carry a gun, so that the first person to try and take away my free thinking can catch 13 hot ones :)

Thanks in advance

I always carry with one in the chamber and a full magazine.
I don't consider it dangerous because I'm very familiar with the operation of my sidearm and have practiced with it extensively.
I carry with the hammer down on a loaded chamber because this model can fire the first round double action, just my preference, of course.

Like the above posters have said; carry how you feel comfortable, follow the safety rules and remember; when you pull the trigger, at least two lives are going to change forever.

Be safe and carry on!

-MH
 

MattinWA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
278
Location
Spokane Washington
You sound pretty flippant to shoot to kill 13 times. If you find yourself in a situation that requires that action, it would be extremely serious and certainly altering both you and the perps lives.

Hopefully more to the perp, if he can shoot at least 1/13 as well as he says ;)
 

GHF

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
24
Location
Orlando, Florida
How I Carry

As my instructor taught me.

  1. Full Magazine
  2. One in the chamber
  3. Hammer down
  4. Safety OFF while in the holster (the gun, a Beretta 9000s Type F, is essentally in a double-action revolver-like mode).
Safety is put on while pulled from holster, and moved to storage - nightstand, car storage box, etc.
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
Simply carry in the manner you are most comfortable with, and best suited for your particular sidearm.

Pistols with double action capability= good for Condition 1 or Condition 2 (but I would never take it down beyond that:))

Single action semi-autos with a firing pin block (or the like) = Best carried Condition 1

Single action revolvers without block (or the like) = carry like Lee Van Cleef or Clint Eastwood.

Your choice.:)
 
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azcdlfred

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
901
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
As my instructor taught me.

  1. Full Magazine
  2. One in the chamber
  3. Hammer down
  4. Safety OFF while in the holster (the gun, a Beretta 9000s Type F, is essentally in a double-action revolver-like mode).
Safety is put on while pulled from holster, and moved to storage - nightstand, car storage box, etc.
What he taught you is contrary to any training I have encountered or heard of before. Where did you get your training?

All safeties should be engaged and stay engaged until you point your pistol at your target.

Fred
PS - I'm also an NRA Pistol Instructor
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
What he taught you is contrary to any training I have encountered or heard of before. Where did you get your training?

All safeties should be engaged and stay engaged until you point your pistol at your target.

Fred
PS - I'm also an NRA Pistol Instructor

Then why do some DA guns differ ONLY in whether it has a safety/decocker or just a spring-loaded decocker? (Ruger P95 and P95DC, for example)

It is quite common for many firearms to have safeties that are superfluous and not intended to be always used.

It is quite normal to carry a DA with the safety off. Otherwise, no one would make them without safeties.

Carrying a DA with the safety off is how I recommend to carry them.

PS - I'm also an NRA Pistol Instructor
 
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azcdlfred

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
901
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
Carrying a DA with the safety off is how I recommend to carry them. I'm also an NRA Pistol Instructor
Looks like we'll have to disagree on this issue.

Just like there should be no differentiation between a loaded or unloaded gun, if a pistol has a safety, it should always be engaged until your sights are on the target. Otherwise we get into the mindset of making exceptions for safe gun handling.

It's like saying I'm not going to wear the seatbelt in my car because I'm only pulling out of my driveway.

If you buy a gun with an external safety, it should be used as intended. My two cents.

Fred
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
Looks like we'll have to disagree on this issue.

Just like there should be no differentiation between a loaded or unloaded gun, if a pistol has a safety, it should always be engaged until your sights are on the target. Otherwise we get into the mindset of making exceptions for safe gun handling.

It's like saying I'm not going to wear the seatbelt in my car because I'm only pulling out of my driveway.

If you buy a gun with an external safety, it should be used as intended....

Most of this is a non sequitur.

Do any of these guns' manuals say that the safety is intended to always be on while the gun is carried?

Conversely, as mentioned, many of these otherwise exactly the same pistols are also available in a version without the safety.

It appears you may be using the mindset of the NRA Basic Pistol instruction, in which case, I could agree with you. Pistols are not referred to as nor treated as self defense weapons in this course. But in the Personal Protection courses, things are different. Indeed, the draw stroke taught here disengages a safety during rotation, before it is pointed at a hostile target. Slide-mounted safeties, as found on many DA designs, make this less natural, also.

EDIT: PS, when quoting me out of context, please indicate so with ellipses or other method. Not only did you only quote only my last two sentences with no indication there was previous text, but actually removed the line break and "PS" which had indicated why my last sentence was there. Yes, it matters.
 
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azcdlfred

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
901
Location
Tucson, Arizona, USA
But in the Personal Protection courses, things are different. Indeed, the draw stroke disengages a safety during rotation, before it is pointed at a hostile target. Slide-mounted safeties, as found on many DA designs, make this less natural, also.
I couldn't agree with you more. I've seen plenty of lawyer-designed guns bought by naïve gun owners that have weird and non-ergonomic external safeties.

But for someone serious about safe gun handling and proper skill at arms, the solution is to own a pistol that allows proper access and function of the external safety and not work around a poorly designed lever with unsafe gun handling.

The external safety on my Glock (yes, there is one) is always engaged until after rotation during presentation :dude:

Fred
 
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