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Thread: Starbuck wants out of the middle........

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    Starbuck wants out of the middle........

    The CEO of Starbucks asks that we no longer OC in their establishments. He says they are not banning guns, just want us not to carry them in a manner that would upset other patrons. It is his right to do so, and does not "infringe" on our rights, but I think it's a weasel move. Read his letter and see what you think.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...hultz/2829937/

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    Regular Member XD40sc's Avatar
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    I have a number of guns, I carry every time it is legal, usually concealed, but often an OC that is just not the obvious, or in your face that I am armed. This is typically an OWB Serpa holster with an un-tucked t-shirt.

    Now to carry an AR15 or similar rifle into a coffee shop, while perfectly legal, just screams look at me see my gun, and the results these people have achieved is very predictable.

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    Regular Member razor_baghdad's Avatar
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    Idiot move.

    This goes back to the age old argument that one legally armed citizen could have prevented the Navy Yard shootings and saved 12 lives.

    I don't frequent SB and now, never will.

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    Not terribly surprised. They became a lightening rod that they did not ask to become.

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    Quote Originally Posted by razor_baghdad View Post
    This goes back to the age old argument that one legally armed citizen could have prevented the Navy Yard shootings and saved 12 lives.

    I don't frequent SB and now, never will.
    Your forgot to mention with bullets ! Love these states that say you can carry unloaded ....

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    craziness

    They will not get my business anymore. .

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    $tarbuck$ is happy to be in the middle, proving there's no bad publicity.

    Either they're with US or they're agin US. Fence straddlers are already astraddle their rail for riding out of town.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Is anybody even remotely surprised at this outcome? This is a perfect example of how we can be our worst enemy sometimes. It has been clear to anybody with even half a brain, that Starbucks wasn't pro gun, but rather chose to remain neutral on the matter and simply stick to their policy of following local law. When you have the CEO making comments urging those who oppose guns to work with their congressmen to change the law, that should be a pretty obvious sign that they don't care for the practice. Not once has he ever alluded to being a proponent of the second amendment. But hey, he didn't say they were banning guns, so what did we do? We acted like the company gave us their seal of approval, and decided to rub our perceived gun rights victory in the faces of all those who didn't feel the same as us. Instead of just going about our lives, enjoying the right to carry on an individual basis, we decided to act like a bunch of assclowns, organizing gatherings and showing up looking like we were armed for combat. Or we tried organizing a "Starbucks Appreciation Day" at the Starbucks in Newtown only months after the shooting. As if we hadn't thumbed our noses at the antis enough, let's get a bunch of assclowns to all show up openly armed at the Starbucks in a town that is still trying to heal from a major gun tragedy. That's as insensitive as the Muslims wanting to build a huge mosque right beside ground zero. Starbucks never wanted to become a platform for gun rights, yet we acted like they were our biggest supporters, and that clearly wasn't the case. So we forced them to take a public position that they never wanted to take, and surprise surprise, turns out they don't really care for the open carry practice after all. So instead of taking the high road with our perceived gun rights victory, we backed Starbucks further into a corner, and gave a real huge victory for the anti-gun crowd. We were the best players on their team. We have nobody to thank but ourselves.

    Same thing with these clowns who walk around with rifles slung over their shoulder and handguns on their side, with cameras rolling just so they'll have a video to post to YouTube when the cops come and harass them. You think that helps our cause? Heck no. It causes folks who didn't realize it was legal to suddenly decide to work toward changing the law. Can you say California?

    Look, I am all for open carry. I do it on occasion, but tend to prefer blending in rather than sticking out, so I conceal more often than not. About the only time I OC now is when I'm riding my bicycle since it's much easier to use a paddle holster than an IWB in a biking pant. While it's legal for me to do it, would I go out with dual under arm holsters, a belt holster, thigh rig, and 17 mag carriers strapped around my waist? Hell no. Why would I want to draw that sort of attention to myself? This is how I feel when I see folks "supporting Starbucks" with a freaking AR15 on their back. Is it legal for them to do that? Yeah. Is it helping our cause by doing that? I think that answer is quite obvious now. I gotta say, I really wouldn't feel very comfortable seeing some guy walk into a Starbucks dressed like that either.

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    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Either they're with US or they're agin US. Fence straddlers are already astraddle their rail for riding out of town.
    Sorry, but that's a load of crap. If you feel like that, you might as well write off every company that hasn't come right out and said they are pro second amendment, because I can promise you if we try to turn them into the next gun rights platform, we'll simply force their hand and lose another battle. Businesses are just that, businesses. It's a rare case to find one that will willingly support a particular side of such a political hot topic. Chik fil a has done this in regards to traditional marriage. Like Starbucks, they support local law regarding customers carrying firearms. Do we really wanna back them into a corner and force them to pick sides on the 2nd Amendment too? Can we afford another black eye?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Either they're with US or they're agin US. Fence straddlers are already astraddle their rail for riding out of town.
    +1

    They are part of the public ... deal with it.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Either they're with US or they're agin US. Fence straddlers are already astraddle their rail for riding out of town.
    + 1 also...
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    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medic1210 View Post
    Sorry, but that's a load of crap. If you feel like that, you might as well write off every company that hasn't come right out and said they are pro second amendment, because I can promise you if we try to turn them into the next gun rights platform, we'll simply force their hand and lose another battle. Businesses are just that, businesses. It's a rare case to find one that will willingly support a particular side of such a political hot topic. Chik fil a has done this in regards to traditional marriage. Like Starbucks, they support local law regarding customers carrying firearms. Do we really wanna back them into a corner and force them to pick sides on the 2nd Amendment too? Can we afford another black eye?
    +1
    They fail to note that they have already forced SBX into a corner, and they have this really stupid idea that somehow it's gonna be La La Land. No, SBX will decide, as well McDonalds and other establishments, and it will NOT be in favor of OC, CC or any of the 2nd Amendment.

    Which goes to show how many people here are truly part of the anti-2ns Amendment crowd, or they're so totally stupid they make the anti-2A crowd look pretty darned smart. I'm leaning towards the latter because the anti-2nd Amendment crowd is letting the OCers fight the battles on both sides for them to the anti-2A crowd's satisfaction.
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    Regular Member REDFIVE48's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medic1210 View Post
    snip . . . We acted like the company gave us their seal of approval, and decided to rub our perceived gun rights victory in the faces of all those who didn't feel the same as us. Instead of just going about our lives, enjoying the right to carry on an individual basis, we decided to act like a bunch of assclowns, organizing gatherings and showing up looking like we were armed for combat. Or we tried organizing a "Starbucks Appreciation Day" at the Starbucks in Newtown only months after the shooting. . . . snip
    I never attended an appreciation day, nor did I carry a long gun into a store ever, but I also know enough not to 'eat our own' and create more division. So we rubbed victory in the face of people, or did people go and spend money (that many may not have normally spent) in a store to say thanks? Was it open carry people who stood outside the stores harassing people trying to go in, or was it the anti's who did this? Seems like the people in the pics, even the ones carrying rifles, had all spend money in the store. Assclowns for going into a business, promoting the 2nd amendment simply by gathering and carrying? Don't recall any issues where they were acting crazy and scaring anyone (except those scared for the sole reason a gun is in the store).

    Do you know which states the pics were taken in of these 'assclowns'. Armed for combat am guessing is in ref to AR-15's. I think some of those may have been taken in TX where they can only OC rifles, so they should take that away?

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    Last edited by REDFIVE48; 09-24-2013 at 09:53 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDFIVE48 View Post
    I never attended an appreciation day, nor did I carry a long gun into a store ever, but I also know enough not to 'eat our own' and create more division. So we rubbed victory in the face of people, or did people go and spend money (that many may not have normally spent) in a store to say thanks? Was it open carry people who stood outside the stores harassing people trying to go in, or was it the anti's who did this? Seems like the people in the pics, even the ones carrying rifles, had all spend money in the store. Assclowns for going into a business, promoting the 2nd amendment simply by gathering and carrying? Don't recall any issues where they were acting crazy and scaring anyone (except those scared for the sole reason a gun is in the store).

    Do you know which states the pics were taken in of these 'assclowns'. Armed for combat am guessing is in ref to AR-15's. I think some of those may have been taken in TX where they can only OC rifles, so they should take that away?

    Glass houses . . . even if you only do it sometimes.
    What they are missing is that concealed carry fanatics have been accusing us of the very thing some of us are accusing of long gun OCers. If it wasn't so sad it would be funny, irony can be tragedy.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    What they are missing is that concealed carry fanatics have been accusing us of the very thing some of us are accusing of long gun OCers. If it wasn't so sad it would be funny, irony can be tragedy.
    It is ironic. The difference is they were wrong about normal handgun OC, and I'm right about long gun OC in Starbucks.

    The world is not black-and-white. Grow up.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDFIVE48 View Post
    Do you know which states the pics were taken in of these 'assclowns'. Armed for combat am guessing is in ref to AR-15's. I think some of those may have been taken in TX where they can only OC rifles, so they should take that away?
    Nobody OCs an AR as a matter of routine, even in Texas. Doing so in Starbucks is so obviously a smug, puerile attempt to rub Starbucks in the faces of the antis (which backfired), I'm beginning to question the discernment of those who pretend they don't understand the issue here.

    The issue is not "taking away" rifle OC, the issue is folks acting like irresponsible gun owners by holding AR15s in hand in Starbucks while they take their selfie to post on Facebook. Not cool.
    Last edited by marshaul; 09-24-2013 at 12:04 PM.

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    Regular Member Jamesm760's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Nobody OCs an AR as a matter of routine, even in Texas. Doing so in Starbucks is so obviously a smug, puerile attempt to rub Starbucks in the faces of the antis (which backfired), I'm beginning to question the discernment of those who pretend they don't understand the issue here.

    The issue is not "taking away" rifle OC, the issue is folks acting like irresponsible gun owners by holding AR15s in hand in Starbucks while they take their selfie to post on Facebook. Not cool.
    +1

    I too saw that picture... It was the OCers that ultimately made starbucks go that route IMO. We were pushing harder at that point than the naggin anti's...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm760 View Post
    +1

    I too saw that picture... It was the OCers that ultimately made starbucks go that route IMO. We were pushing harder at that point than the naggin anti's...
    Are you agreeing or disagreeing that there is a significant difference in handgun OC v. long gun OC? I want to assume you meant the long gun OC.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    IMO it was mostly the handgun OCers that brought about the decision, there are far more of them that were going to SBX. Besides the fact the some of them are as bad as CC fanatics for being rational.
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    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    IMO it was mostly the handgun OCers that brought about the decision, there are far more of them that were going to SBX. Besides the fact the some of them are as bad as CC fanatics for being rational.
    I share this same opinion. Personally, I feel it was more about us (all gun owners and open carriers) using Starbucks as a platform to push our agenda. I wholeheartedly believe that had we just continued doing what we were doing, without all the hoopla and staged events, this would be a non-issue.

    And in case it isn't clear by now, the next time (and I can all but guarantee there will be a next time) a business responds to anti-gun complaints by saying "Our policy is to follow local law" it DOES NOT mean they support us or the second amendment. It simply means they don't want to take sides and alienate any of their customer base. In other words, don't get all excited and stage mass open carry events as a sign of support.

  21. #21
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medic1210 View Post
    I share this same opinion. Personally, I feel it was more about us (all gun owners and open carriers) using Starbucks as a platform to push our agenda. I wholeheartedly believe that had we just continued doing what we were doing, without all the hoopla and staged events, this would be a non-issue.

    And in case it isn't clear by now, the next time (and I can all but guarantee there will be a next time) a business responds to anti-gun complaints by saying "Our policy is to follow local law" it DOES NOT mean they support us or the second amendment. It simply means they don't want to take sides and alienate any of their customer base. In other words, don't get all excited and stage mass open carry events as a sign of support.
    I was being sarcastic, the real culprits are the whiners, and complainers, and the CEO. They thought they would more business from anti gun public than the gun public, that is it a nutshell, the bottom line was financial. They have accepted group meeting for a long time without a hitch until the anti crowd started making threats. Probably most of the whiners did not even step foot in SBX, it was campaign to cut off the second amendment PERIOD!
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I was being sarcastic
    I got it.

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    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I got it.
    I guess I didn't. Usually sarcasm is saying something that isn't realistic, not the other way around.

    At any rate, my comment stands. But you guys are free to prove me wrong the next time a business gives a neither for nor against response regarding OC. You can rest assured the anti gun crowd has taken this as a huge victory, and will be pressuring another business into following suit with Starbucks. When that happens, you guys that can't seem to see the forest for all the trees, please make sure you organize as many OC events as you can to really show the anti crowd they just got lucky this time.
    Last edited by Medic1210; 09-25-2013 at 05:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medic1210 View Post
    Is anybody even remotely surprised at this outcome? This is a perfect example of how we can be our worst enemy sometimes. It has been clear to anybody with even half a brain, that Starbucks wasn't pro gun, but rather chose to remain neutral on the matter and simply stick to their policy of following local law. When you have the CEO making comments urging those who oppose guns to work with their congressmen to change the law, that should be a pretty obvious sign that they don't care for the practice. Not once has he ever alluded to being a proponent of the second amendment. But hey, he didn't say they were banning guns, so what did we do? We acted like the company gave us their seal of approval, and decided to rub our perceived gun rights victory in the faces of all those who didn't feel the same as us. Instead of just going about our lives, enjoying the right to carry on an individual basis, we decided to act like a bunch of assclowns, organizing gatherings and showing up looking like we were armed for combat. Or we tried organizing a "Starbucks Appreciation Day" at the Starbucks in Newtown only months after the shooting. As if we hadn't thumbed our noses at the antis enough, let's get a bunch of assclowns to all show up openly armed at the Starbucks in a town that is still trying to heal from a major gun tragedy. That's as insensitive as the Muslims wanting to build a huge mosque right beside ground zero. Starbucks never wanted to become a platform for gun rights, yet we acted like they were our biggest supporters, and that clearly wasn't the case. So we forced them to take a public position that they never wanted to take, and surprise surprise, turns out they don't really care for the open carry practice after all. So instead of taking the high road with our perceived gun rights victory, we backed Starbucks further into a corner, and gave a real huge victory for the anti-gun crowd. We were the best players on their team. We have nobody to thank but ourselves.

    Same thing with these clowns who walk around with rifles slung over their shoulder and handguns on their side, with cameras rolling just so they'll have a video to post to YouTube when the cops come and harass them. You think that helps our cause? Heck no. It causes folks who didn't realize it was legal to suddenly decide to work toward changing the law. Can you say California?

    Look, I am all for open carry. I do it on occasion, but tend to prefer blending in rather than sticking out, so I conceal more often than not. About the only time I OC now is when I'm riding my bicycle since it's much easier to use a paddle holster than an IWB in a biking pant. While it's legal for me to do it, would I go out with dual under arm holsters, a belt holster, thigh rig, and 17 mag carriers strapped around my waist? Hell no. Why would I want to draw that sort of attention to myself? This is how I feel when I see folks "supporting Starbucks" with a freaking AR15 on their back. Is it legal for them to do that? Yeah. Is it helping our cause by doing that? I think that answer is quite obvious now. I gotta say, I really wouldn't feel very comfortable seeing some guy walk into a Starbucks dressed like that either.
    I *totally* agree. We (some of us) were our own worst enemy vis a vis Starbux and they are not to blame for their reaction, imnsho. Those who tried to put Starbux at the epicenter of the gun debate are entirely responsible for pushing Starbux into this position. They simply want to sell product, not get placed on a pedestal as a representative of the pro-RKBA position. Their desire was to remain neutral and go with state law, and then people tried to make it into something much more and appropriate starbux as a symbol for our side. Bad move. I empathize with their situation and think their decision, given how people acted, is entirely understandable, and reasonable.

    I don't go to Starbux anyway, so even if I agreed with the boycott, it would make no difference to me, since I don't go there

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    I don't go to Starbux anyway, so even if I agreed with the boycott, it would make no difference to me, since I don't go there
    Yup.

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