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Thread: Can I carry more places in MS if I OC?

  1. #1
    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Can I carry more places in MS if I OC?

    I have a TN Handgun Carry Permit and one of my frustrations with carrying in MS is that a non-resident like myself is not able to obtain an enhanced permit. This results in my not being able to carry in some locations like a college or church.

    I have been doing some reading on OCDO and handgunlaw.us but have not been able to definitively determine the answer to the following question:

    Is it legal to OC without a MS permit in locations which are otherwise restricted from CC except to those with an enhanced permit? In other words, do OCers have the same liberties as enhanced CCers, as far as restricted locations?

    If so, I may start OCing in MS just for that reason alone. I OC in TN a lot, but have not OCed in MS yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    I have a TN Handgun Carry Permit and one of my frustrations with carrying in MS is that a non-resident like myself is not able to obtain an enhanced permit. This results in my not being able to carry in some locations like a college or church.

    I have been doing some reading on OCDO and handgunlaw.us but have not been able to definitively determine the answer to the following question:

    Is it legal to OC without a MS permit in locations which are otherwise restricted from CC except to those with an enhanced permit? In other words, do OCers have the same liberties as enhanced CCers, as far as restricted locations?

    If so, I may start OCing in MS just for that reason alone. I OC in TN a lot, but have not OCed in MS yet.

    From my experience OC is frowned upon in most places and you can't OC anywhere that has a sign or places such as churches, courthouses, federal buildings. With an enhanced you can get away with most places, at least from what I understand

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    Regular Member Eeyore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glocklover20 View Post
    With an enhanced you can get away with most places, at least from what I understand
    Moot point--as he pointed out, a Tennessee resident he's ineligible for an Enhanced permit in MS. So the short answer is yes, independence would theoretically be less-restricted OCing.
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    Moot point--as he pointed out, a Tennessee resident he's ineligible for an Enhanced permit in MS. So the short answer is yes, independence would theoretically be less-restricted OCing.
    I believe you are correct. But could you possibly help me with finding citations from the law that would prove this?
    Last edited by independence; 09-30-2013 at 03:01 AM.

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    I believe you are correct. But could you possibly help me with finding citations from the law that would prove this?
    How does one cite the absence of restrictions?

    OK, now that I got my pithy comment out of my system... The reason Eeyore states you would (theoretically) be less restricted when OCing (vs CCing under a non-enhanced permit) is that OC is omitted from much of the laws restricting carry. Specifically, 45-9-101 (13) is the main restriction on places where one can carry, but the opening line of (13) uses the terms "stun gun, concealed pistol or revolver".

    There are other sections in the Mississippi code that restrict the carry of weapons onto school grounds, but the location escapes me. I don't believe those sections restrict themselves to concealed weapons.

    Above all, the Mississippi Constitution Article 3 Section 12 reads as follows:
    The right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall not be called in question, but the Legislature may regulate or forbid carrying concealed weapons.
    A plain-English reading of this sentence tells me that OC cannot be regulated by the Legislature, period.

    That said, use your own judgement in carrying into the aforementioned "prohibited" places, as you might eventually face a legal fight due to cops not knowing (or caring) about the law.
    Last edited by 4angrybadgers; 10-01-2013 at 09:07 AM.

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    How does one cite the absence of restrictions?

    OK, now that I got my pithy comment out of my system... The reason Eeyore states you would (theoretically) be less restricted when OCing (vs CCing under a non-enhanced permit) is that OC is omitted from much of the laws restricting carry. Specifically, 45-9-101 (13) is the main restriction on places where one can carry, but the opening line of (13) uses the terms "stun gun, concealed pistol or revolver".

    There are other sections in the Mississippi code that restrict the carry of weapons onto school grounds, but the location escapes me. I don't believe those sections restrict themselves to concealed weapons.

    Above all, the Mississippi Constitution Article 3 Section 12 reads as follows:

    A plain-English reading of this sentence tells me that OC cannot be regulated by the Legislature, period.

    That said, use your own judgement in carrying into the aforementioned "prohibited" places, as you might eventually face a legal fight due to cops not knowing (or caring) about the law.
    Excellent post. Thanks so much!!

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    Regular Member Eeyore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    There are other sections in the Mississippi code that restrict the carry of weapons onto school grounds, but the location escapes me. I don't believe those sections restrict themselves to concealed weapons.
    They do not. Here's the "Reader's Digest" version:

    §97-37-17 Possession of weapons by students; aiding or encouraging.
    (2) It shall be a felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol or other firearm of any kind…on educational property. Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $5,000.00, or committed to the custody of the State Department of Corrections for not more than 3 years, or both….
    (6) It shall not be a violation of this section for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol or other firearm of any kind on educational property if:
    (a) The person is not a student attending school on any educational property;
    (b) The firearm is within a motor vehicle; and
    (c) The person does not brandish, exhibit or display the firearm in any careless, angry or threatening manner

    Of course, item (6)(c) is redundant, since brandishing is already a criminal offense under other laws.

    Also, remember that local ordinances are permitted by §45-9-53 to limit/ban carry (open or concealed) into government meetings, rallies/parades/demonstrations, public parks, and school sports events. So the "rules" might vary from town to town, and you might have difficulty finding what the rules are until you've already broken them.

    The reason I made sure to add the word "theoretically" in my original post is that most of the open carry implications of HB2 have not been tested in court yet, and there's little anecdotal experience to go on as to how LEAs and individual LEOs are choosing to enforce restrictions (real or imagined).
    Last edited by Eeyore; 10-01-2013 at 04:02 PM.
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    They do not. Here's the "Reader's Digest" version:

    §97-37-17 Possession of weapons by students; aiding or encouraging.
    (2) It shall be a felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol or other firearm of any kind…on educational property. Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $5,000.00, or committed to the custody of the State Department of Corrections for not more than 3 years, or both….
    (6) It shall not be a violation of this section for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol or other firearm of any kind on educational property if:
    (a) The person is not a student attending school on any educational property;
    (b) The firearm is within a motor vehicle; and
    (c) The person does not brandish, exhibit or display the firearm in any careless, angry or threatening manner

    Of course, item (6)(c) is redundant, since brandishing is already a criminal offense under other laws.

    Also, remember that local ordinances are permitted by §45-9-53 to limit/ban carry (open or concealed) into government meetings, rallies/parades/demonstrations, public parks, and school sports events. So the "rules" might vary from town to town, and you might have difficulty finding what the rules are until you've already broken them.
    <snipped>
    Thanks for the cite, I was drawing a blank on the section # and didn't have time to dig for it this morning.

    I do wonder though, if the courts would uphold 97-37-17 and 45-9-51/53's implicit regulation of open carry in light of Article 3 Section 12...
    Last edited by 4angrybadgers; 10-01-2013 at 04:41 PM.

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    forgot what I was gonna say.
    Last edited by georg jetson; 10-01-2013 at 11:40 PM.

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    Regular Member 4angrybadgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    forgot what I was gonna say.
    CRS disease?
    (Disclaimer: this is not an allegation of georg's age, as I honestly have no idea how old he is. Also, CRS disease can affect even the young!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    CRS disease?
    (Disclaimer: this is not an allegation of georg's age, as I honestly have no idea how old he is. Also, CRS disease can affect even the young!)
    maybe :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4angrybadgers View Post
    Thanks for the cite, I was drawing a blank on the section # and didn't have time to dig for it this morning.

    I do wonder though, if the courts would uphold 97-37-17 and 45-9-51/53's implicit regulation of open carry in light of Article 3 Section 12...
    A very astute question.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    They do not. Here's the "Reader's Digest" version:

    §97-37-17 Possession of weapons by students; aiding or encouraging.
    (2) It shall be a felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol or other firearm of any kind…on educational property. Any person violating this subsection shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not more than $5,000.00, or committed to the custody of the State Department of Corrections for not more than 3 years, or both….
    (6) It shall not be a violation of this section for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol or other firearm of any kind on educational property if:
    (a) The person is not a student attending school on any educational property;
    (b) The firearm is within a motor vehicle; and
    (c) The person does not brandish, exhibit or display the firearm in any careless, angry or threatening manner

    Of course, item (6)(c) is redundant, since brandishing is already a criminal offense under other laws.

    Also, remember that local ordinances are permitted by §45-9-53 to limit/ban carry (open or concealed) into government meetings, rallies/parades/demonstrations, public parks, and school sports events. So the "rules" might vary from town to town, and you might have difficulty finding what the rules are until you've already broken them.

    The reason I made sure to add the word "theoretically" in my original post is that most of the open carry implications of HB2 have not been tested in court yet, and there's little anecdotal experience to go on as to how LEAs and individual LEOs are choosing to enforce restrictions (real or imagined).
    Interesting news item yesterday. Here is a link to the article where the AG says that it is OK for Enhanced Permit holers to CC at sporting events open to the public.

    http://www.newsms.fm/ok-guns-school-...-carry-permit/

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