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Thread: Enraged drivers shoot, kill each other

  1. #1
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    Enraged drivers shoot, kill each other

    "Two drivers are dead after a road rage incident escalated into a shootout. The incident happened around 6:45p.m."

    -http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/268289/280/Enraged-drivers-shoot-kill-each-other

    First time I've heard of this happening. It's quite rare.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Think the title to the report is probably misleading. One must have been the aggressor; the other the victim.

    Fixed your link:

    http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/2...ill-each-other
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Thank you Grape.

    You're right, one was the aggressor. The front vehicle pulled over to the let the other pass, but instead of passing it stopped, the driver got out and began shooting. The first guy returned fire.

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    There's more to this story, I'll bet. But rough justice has been done and there will be no mass killings by either of these two ostensibly legally armed citizens.
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    At least they did not use ARs, huh?

    Both are really at some degree of fault ... maybe one at 40%, other at 60%.

    Grown men too .. not kids.

    tsk tsk tsk

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Hmmm.....I have to wonder how other people here would respond to someone charging them and firing shots at them.

    It is all problematic though because we were not there and the most reliable witnesses are deceased.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    One of the vehicles pulled into the magic wand, why did the second driver feel the need to follow that car? this was very avoidable, if the second driver had just gone on his way. I think blame can be aimed almost totally on the second vehicle that entered the lot.
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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Watch for the results of the tox screen. Driver #2 apparently had been popped previously for DUI and possesion of a firearm while intoxicated
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    One item of interest is that a vetting process (the permits) did not stop at least one of them from being a violent and deadly aggressor.

    Remove vetting processes that infringe on the ability to keep and bear arms!
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Watch for the results of the tox screen. Driver #2 apparently had been popped previously for DUI and possesion of a firearm while intoxicated
    Good point - could provide some added light.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    The article listed them both as 'victims'. I wonder what angle they were going for there. I still don't know which car had the passengers in it.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Re: Enraged drivers shoot, kill each other

    The front car.. The one that pulled over first had the passengers.

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    At least they did not use ARs, huh?

    Both are really at some degree of fault ... maybe one at 40%, other at 60%.

    Grown men too .. not kids.

    tsk tsk tsk
    Without knowing all the facts, I can't honestly put much blame on the one who pulled off the road first. The 2nd driver did not have to follow the first driver. At this point, I'd put the aggression on the 2nd driver, the one who followed. If he'd kept going, neither would be dead.
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    The thing here that doesn't surprise me is that it was in Ionia. My experience touring the lower peninsula on my mountain bikes has been that Ionia is to dangerous hillbillies as Grand Haven is to uppity rich snobs. No where else in Michigan, besides Ionia, have I been threatened and harassed multiple times for no other reason than being a cyclist.

    There is a certain pointless element of danger to certain parts of the rural midwest, where locals are very abrasive and hate outsiders and it would seem often each other. And my experience from being there several times has been that Ionia is a strong hold if it. This is not something I have seen in the west, where vast expanses of public land were able to be preserved, free of being dotted with private property you need a damned plat book to avoid.
    Last edited by Michigander; 09-22-2013 at 12:17 PM.
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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    The thing here that doesn't surprise me is that it was in Ionia. My experience touring the lower peninsula on my mountain bikes has been that Ionia is to dangerous hillbillies as Grand Haven is to uppity rich snobs. No where else in Michigan, besides Ionia, have I been threatened and harassed multiple times for no other reason than being a cyclist.

    There is a certain pointless element of danger to certain parts of the rural midwest, where locals are very abrasive and hate outsiders and it would seem often each other. And my experience from being there several times has been that Ionia is a strong hold if it. This is not something I have seen in the west, where vast expanses of public land were able to be preserved, free of being dotted with private property you need a damned plat book to avoid.
    Queue the banjo music....

    'He got a real pretty mouth ain't he?'
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    One of the more important points we're missing here, is that if either one (preferably both) had a recorder going, this could be settled quickly.

    Zimmerman made the same mistake....
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  17. #17
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    The true deliverance types I don't even mind, they tend not to mean any ill will toward anyone, and Michigan does have a few spots where they can be encountered......

    Anyway, I think as much as anything, and perhaps much more important than a recorder, both this case and the zimmerman case are likely shining examples of the importance of understanding conflict communication, which unfortunately is a very complicated subject for those who don't experience routine violence. Fortunately however, mark MacYoung, one of the world's foremost experts, has an extensive collection of information readily viewable for free on his web site. www.nononsenseselfdefense.com
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    The true deliverance types I don't even mind, they tend not to mean any ill will toward anyone, and Michigan does have a few spots where they can be encountered......

    Anyway, I think as much as anything, and perhaps much more important than a recorder, both this case and the zimmerman case are likely shining examples of the importance of understanding conflict communication, which unfortunately is a very complicated subject for those who don't experience routine violence. Fortunately however, mark MacYoung, one of the world's foremost experts, has an extensive collection of information readily viewable for free on his web site. www.nononsenseselfdefense.com
    Extremely interesting site. Lots of thought provoking reading there.

    Thanks for the link.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Extremely interesting site. Lots of thought provoking reading there.

    Thanks for the link.
    You're welcome. For the sake of the law abiding gun carrying community, please cite it often.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Without knowing all the facts, I can't honestly put much blame on the one who pulled off the road first. The 2nd driver did not have to follow the first driver. At this point, I'd put the aggression on the 2nd driver, the one who followed. If he'd kept going, neither would be dead.
    True, but you're not suggesting ex-state CO's chance losing a man card over something like this...are you?

  21. #21
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    True, but you're not suggesting ex-state CO's chance losing a man card over something like this...are you?
    No, I'm suggesting that maybe people who have road rage need to think 3 times, before they act. Maybe even 4 or 5 times, in order to avoid such non sense as this.

    There is no excuse, short of self defense for what happened. The first guy got off the road. The 2nd guy should have kept on going. That's it.
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  22. #22
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Has anyone seen any reports on toxicology?
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Has anyone seen any reports on toxicology?
    Nothing yet - waiting.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    And this is going to make life harder on is law abiding citizens that carry guns


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    Regular Member Josh Blackler's Avatar
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    Never the less my prayers are with both the deceased family's.


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