Enraged drivers shoot, kill each other

Defrock · Sep 19, 2013

"Two drivers are dead after a road rage incident escalated into a shootout. The incident happened around 6:45p.m."

-http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/268289/280/Enraged-drivers-shoot-kill-each-other

First time I've heard of this happening. It's quite rare.

Grapeshot · Sep 19, 2013

Think the title to the report is probably misleading. One must have been the aggressor; the other the victim.

Fixed your link:

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/268289/280/Enraged-drivers-shoot-kill-each-other

Defrock · Sep 19, 2013

Thank you Grape.

You're right, one was the aggressor. The front vehicle pulled over to the let the other pass, but instead of passing it stopped, the driver got out and began shooting. The first guy returned fire.

davidmcbeth · Sep 19, 2013

At least they did not use ARs, huh?

Both are really at some degree of fault ... maybe one at 40%, other at 60%.

Grown men too .. not kids.

tsk tsk tsk

Grapeshot · Sep 19, 2013

Hmmm.....I have to wonder how other people here would respond to someone charging them and firing shots at them.

It is all problematic though because we were not there and the most reliable witnesses are deceased.

Raggs · Sep 19, 2013

One of the vehicles pulled into the magic wand, why did the second driver feel the need to follow that car? this was very avoidable, if the second driver had just gone on his way. I think blame can be aimed almost totally on the second vehicle that entered the lot.

Shadow Bear · Sep 20, 2013

Watch for the results of the tox screen. Driver #2 apparently had been popped previously for DUI and possesion of a firearm while intoxicated

MAC702 · Sep 20, 2013

One item of interest is that a vetting process (the permits) did not stop at least one of them from being a violent and deadly aggressor.

Remove vetting processes that infringe on the ability to keep and bear arms!

Grapeshot · Sep 20, 2013

Shadow Bear said:
Watch for the results of the tox screen. Driver #2 apparently had been popped previously for DUI and possesion of a firearm while intoxicated

Good point - could provide some added light.

Evil Creamsicle · Sep 20, 2013

The article listed them both as 'victims'. I wonder what angle they were going for there. I still don't know which car had the passengers in it.

autosurgeon · Sep 20, 2013

The front car.. The one that pulled over first had the passengers.

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Big Gay Al · Sep 22, 2013

davidmcbeth said:
At least they did not use ARs, huh?

Both are really at some degree of fault ... maybe one at 40%, other at 60%.

Grown men too .. not kids.

tsk tsk tsk

Without knowing all the facts, I can't honestly put much blame on the one who pulled off the road first. The 2nd driver did not have to follow the first driver. At this point, I'd put the aggression on the 2nd driver, the one who followed. If he'd kept going, neither would be dead.

Michigander · Sep 22, 2013

The thing here that doesn't surprise me is that it was in Ionia. My experience touring the lower peninsula on my mountain bikes has been that Ionia is to dangerous hillbillies as Grand Haven is to uppity rich snobs. No where else in Michigan, besides Ionia, have I been threatened and harassed multiple times for no other reason than being a cyclist.

There is a certain pointless element of danger to certain parts of the rural midwest, where locals are very abrasive and hate outsiders and it would seem often each other. And my experience from being there several times has been that Ionia is a strong hold if it. This is not something I have seen in the west, where vast expanses of public land were able to be preserved, free of being dotted with private property you need a damned plat book to avoid.

Shadow Bear · Sep 22, 2013

Michigander said:
The thing here that doesn't surprise me is that it was in Ionia. My experience touring the lower peninsula on my mountain bikes has been that Ionia is to dangerous hillbillies as Grand Haven is to uppity rich snobs. No where else in Michigan, besides Ionia, have I been threatened and harassed multiple times for no other reason than being a cyclist.

There is a certain pointless element of danger to certain parts of the rural midwest, where locals are very abrasive and hate outsiders and it would seem often each other. And my experience from being there several times has been that Ionia is a strong hold if it. This is not something I have seen in the west, where vast expanses of public land were able to be preserved, free of being dotted with private property you need a damned plat book to avoid.

Queue the banjo music....

'He got a real pretty mouth ain't he?'

Shadow Bear · Sep 22, 2013

One of the more important points we're missing here, is that if either one (preferably both) had a recorder going, this could be settled quickly.

Zimmerman made the same mistake....

Michigander · Sep 22, 2013

The true deliverance types I don't even mind, they tend not to mean any ill will toward anyone, and Michigan does have a few spots where they can be encountered......

Anyway, I think as much as anything, and perhaps much more important than a recorder, both this case and the zimmerman case are likely shining examples of the importance of understanding conflict communication, which unfortunately is a very complicated subject for those who don't experience routine violence. Fortunately however, mark MacYoung, one of the world's foremost experts, has an extensive collection of information readily viewable for free on his web site. www.nononsenseselfdefense.com

Grapeshot · Sep 23, 2013

Michigander said:
The true deliverance types I don't even mind, they tend not to mean any ill will toward anyone, and Michigan does have a few spots where they can be encountered......

Anyway, I think as much as anything, and perhaps much more important than a recorder, both this case and the zimmerman case are likely shining examples of the importance of understanding conflict communication, which unfortunately is a very complicated subject for those who don't experience routine violence. Fortunately however, mark MacYoung, one of the world's foremost experts, has an extensive collection of information readily viewable for free on his web site. www.nononsenseselfdefense.com

Extremely interesting site. Lots of thought provoking reading there.

Thanks for the link.

Michigander · Sep 23, 2013

Grapeshot said:
Extremely interesting site. Lots of thought provoking reading there.

Thanks for the link.

You're welcome. For the sake of the law abiding gun carrying community, please cite it often.

SpringerXDacp · Sep 24, 2013

Big Gay Al said:
Without knowing all the facts, I can't honestly put much blame on the one who pulled off the road first. The 2nd driver did not have to follow the first driver. At this point, I'd put the aggression on the 2nd driver, the one who followed. If he'd kept going, neither would be dead.

True, but you're not suggesting ex-state CO's chance losing a man card over something like this...are you?

Big Gay Al · Sep 25, 2013

SpringerXDacp said:
True, but you're not suggesting ex-state CO's chance losing a man card over something like this...are you?

No, I'm suggesting that maybe people who have road rage need to think 3 times, before they act. Maybe even 4 or 5 times, in order to avoid such non sense as this.

There is no excuse, short of self defense for what happened. The first guy got off the road. The 2nd guy should have kept on going. That's it.

Enraged drivers shoot, kill each other

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