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Thread: county fair grounds same as municipal court property??

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    county fair grounds same as municipal court property??

    So i decided to OC at the ashland county fair today. all went well for awhile til some middle aged man tapped a sheriff on the shoulder and informed him i was carrying a weapon. After a short chat with the officer, he walked off leaving me with his other friend to "get information" he claims he spoke to local police chief, who told him that county fairgrounds was considered the same as a municipal court and other county property,

    seemed a bit fishy to me, because ive carried at the wayne county fair with no issue.

    the officer said i was welcome to stay if i disarmed and placed my gun into my car,


    is a fiar grounds considreded county property like a municipal court??

    makes no sense to me. as there are no posted signs anywhere,

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    County fairs fall under 2 categories. Those put on by the county, on land owned by the county, and those put on by an Agricultural Society on land owned/leased by said Ag Society. No matter which type, they can NOT post the grounds, only buildings, and then only ones that are not primarily used as restrooms, shelters, or parking areas. County owned/run fairs can NOT post because the County is a government entity, and therefore is bound by ORC 9.68. Ag Society owned/run fairs can NOT post because they are ALSO government entities, even though they like to think they are not, and are ALSO bound by ORC 9.68. The Officer was misinformed or flat out lying.

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    i had a feeling that wwas the case, thanks for the info

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    We have been "educating" fairs all season. Brian Kuzawa spearheaded a nice little effort that corrected the Morrow County Fair. I went to the Montgomery County Fair, but they needed no correction.

    If there is a fair that is posted or harassing carriers, we'll have an OC day at the fair and school them.

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    This one may be easier than some others, since the Ashland County Auditor lists the County Commissioners as the owners of the Fairgrounds, not the Ag Society.
    Ashland Co Auditor: Parcel search for P440820000200

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    Quote Originally Posted by xCelarent View Post
    i had a feeling that wwas the case, thanks for the info
    Too bad my uncle in Mansfield is no longer with us - he'd be happy to go to the fair, he was the warden there back in the 1970s.
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    Well I certainly plan to try again today.

    I discuessed the issue with my grandpa, who happens to know Wayne E Risner (deputy) So im going to give him a call and ask his perspective on it.

    Either way, i dont feel i have violated any law, and for sure plan to visit today and OC.

    Got a friend going with me, who is going to record any interactions with the Law Enforcement

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    The words "county property like a court" concern me. "County property" and "court" are handled by the ORC separately. In general, carry on county property cannot be banned by the locals because of preemption in 9.68. Carry in a courthouse is specifically mentioned and banned in the law--not because it is county property, but because it is a courthouse.

    I don't disagree with your approach, but am concerned that you are going to be jacked up. If you are stopped, please comply with all laws regarding a lawful stop (even though this will likely not be lawful). Please state for the recording that you do not consent to any searches or seizures and that you intend to say nothing other than that. Then, please do not get into a discussion with the officer.

    Your choice how you handle the stop, but that is my advice. Once you have been illegally stopped (and likely illegally kicked out of the fair or arrested), you will have everything you need on tape. An argument about the law with the officer will not help. Just my dos centavos.

    If you post this in the Ohio forum, you might get more folks to help you out. We've been down this road before with other county fairs in Ohio this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The words "county property like a court" concern me. "County property" and "court" are handled by the ORC separately. In general, carry on county property cannot be banned by the locals because of preemption in 9.68. Carry in a courthouse is specifically mentioned and banned in the law--not because it is county property, but because it is a courthouse.

    I don't disagree with your approach, but am concerned that you are going to be jacked up. If you are stopped, please comply with all laws regarding a lawful stop (even though this will likely not be lawful). Please state for the recording that you do not consent to any searches or seizures and that you intend to say nothing other than that. Then, please do not get into a discussion with the officer.

    Your choice how you handle the stop, but that is my advice. Once you have been illegally stopped (and likely illegally kicked out of the fair or arrested), you will have everything you need on tape. An argument about the law with the officer will not help. Just my dos centavos.

    If you post this in the Ohio forum, you might get more folks to help you out. We've been down this road before with other county fairs in Ohio this year.

    Yeah I for sure want to record it, forgot to mention they did tell me they would give me a "freebie" and educate me on what they thought the law was, and let me stay if i disarmed, but if i attempted to stay without disarming they would arrest me.


    In a scenario where they arrest me, about how long would that take? im assuming they would detain and disarm me, but how long would oyu expect i have to sit in a holding cell?

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    county fair grounds same as municipal court property??

    Quote Originally Posted by xCelarent View Post
    Yeah I for sure want to record it, forgot to mention they did tell me they would give me a "freebie" and educate me on what they thought the law was, and let me stay if i disarmed, but if i attempted to stay without disarming they would arrest me.


    In a scenario where they arrest me, about how long would that take? im assuming they would detain and disarm me, but how long would oyu expect i have to sit in a holding cell?
    Since they have indicated an intent to arrest you, have a lawyer at the ready. Ask him what to expect. Not a hassle I'd want to go through if I could avoid it.

    There are better ways to do this than to get arrested. I would help, but am working for the next several days. Seriously, post this in the Ohio forum. Cross-post it to OFCC and Buckeye Firearms. This is a battle we have fought before this year and won, without arrests.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Cross-post it to OFCC and Buckeye Firearms. This is a battle we have fought before this year and won, without arrests.
    This, especially OFCC. They have a "task force" of sorts that work on these issues and have been very successful.
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    I'm on this one, big time, as the wife and I LIVE just up the road, and we've had zero issues... The deputy's name would be REALLY handy right about now...

    PS: Eye, its BriKuz... lol outing me to the rest of the world?!? lmao Moving on....

    Last edited by BriKuz; 09-20-2013 at 11:37 AM.

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    county fair grounds same as municipal court property??

    Quote Originally Posted by BriKuz View Post
    I'm on this one, big time, as the wife and I LIVE just up the road, and we've had zero issues... The deputy's name would be REALLY handy right about now...

    PS: Eye, its BriKuz... lol outing me to the rest of the world?!? lmao Moving on....

    I'd say that front-page coverage in newspapers and on FoxNews.com did that better than any of us can!


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    just got back from the fair. The Fair Board President has instructed the Sheriff that anyone with firearms is to be told to leave, and, barring them leaving immediately, to be arrested. Discussion on 9.68 forums of OFCC, but I will stop by here with updates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BriKuz View Post
    I'm on this one, big time, as the wife and I LIVE just up the road, and we've had zero issues... The deputy's name would be REALLY handy right about now...

    PS: Eye, its BriKuz... lol outing me to the rest of the world?!? lmao Moving on....

    I don't want to hear you complaining about someone outing someone else. You appear to have been very busy today.

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    Lt. Smart with Ashland County Sheriff's Office just called me back, and the Sheriff's Department and Prosecutor's office have determined that open or concealed carry of firearms IS legal in the open areas of the fairgrounds.

    I like it when things are easy like this.

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    Had a blast... had 3 dif people walk up to us and say "Why do you look familiar? Oh! You guys are the Oberlin people! Good job!" :mrgreen: made ME feel good... Lt. Bright was pumped that BOTH of us were carrying... he thought it was cool that J has a .40 and not a little .380

    The rain SUCKED, though! lol

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    Not to change the subject here but Another question.....I remember another thread somewhere, maybe over on the BFA forums, couldn't find it but I think it was started by Brikuz, about the wayne co. fair being posted at one time, any way, I've been carrying there since I got a chl in '06, carryed concealed there for maybe 5 to 6 years then went to openly carry'in there....... now after the signs came down, they continued to post the buildings if I remember right, this year however, I noticed the buildings were not posted and as a side note, you could see where those sings used to be on the doors to the buildings ( different paint and nail holes )........so my wife and I never went in them. If I'm correct they are still of limits if not posted right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3FULLMAGS+1 View Post
    If I'm correct they are still of limits if not posted right?
    Short answer: Yes, you are correct.
    Long answer + Why:
    2923.126 [Effective Until 1/1/2014] Duties of licensed individual.
    (B) A valid concealed handgun license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun in any manner prohibited under division (B) of section 2923.12 of the Revised Code or in any manner prohibited under section 2923.16 of the Revised Code. A valid license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun into any of the following places:
    ....
    (9) Any building that is a government facility of this state or a political subdivision of this state and that is not a building that is used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility and is not a courthouse or other building or structure in which a courtroom is located that is subject to division (B)(3) of this section;

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    One thing to consider... barns are leaning more and more towards being considered shelters. Lorain, Morrow, and Ashland all welcomed carrying through barns. That is NOT to say that SOME counties might not arrest you just cause they're pissed about people carrying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustJack View Post
    Short answer: Yes, you are correct.
    Long answer + Why:
    2923.126 [Effective Until 1/1/2014] Duties of licensed individual.
    The license simply does not authorize the licensee to carry concealed into those enumerated places. What stops open carry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BriKuz View Post
    One thing to consider... barns are leaning more and more towards being considered shelters. Lorain, Morrow, and Ashland all welcomed carrying through barns. That is NOT to say that SOME counties might not arrest you just cause they're pissed about people carrying.
    Why would anyone want to carry in a leaning barn? Hell, I wouldn't go in there if I wasn't carrying!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    The license simply does not authorize the licensee to carry concealed into those enumerated places. What stops open carry?
    Well, if posted, I'd have to say the sign does. If not posted, perhaps nothing - I don't see anything in my reading of the law to prohibit it. I do note that no one has yet volunteered to be the test case however, and I'm not willing at this point in my life to do so either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    Well, if posted, I'd have to say the sign does. If not posted, perhaps nothing - I don't see anything in my reading of the law to prohibit it. I do note that no one has yet volunteered to be the test case however, and I'm not willing at this point in my life to do so either.
    What force of law does the sign carry? It is required to be posted, but nothing I know of says that it is required to be followed. I respect private property signing, but this is public property. On public property, I only respect the law, not signs that have no force of law.

    To put it another way, what law would one be charged with violating should he openly carry against such a sign?


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    What force of law does the sign carry? It is required to be posted, but nothing I know of says that it is required to be followed. I respect private property signing, but this is public property. On public property, I only respect the law, not signs that have no force of law.

    To put it another way, what law would one be charged with violating should he openly carry against such a sign?
    I'm not a lawyer so I may be off base, but I would think at the very least you could be arrested for trespass if you violate such a sign. There may be other offenses but I'm not going to spend time digging for them.

    Either way, I note that *many* of the more activist folks in the OC community hold similar views as you do, but *none* have volunteered to be the test case. Seems like it is easy to hold that stance behind a keyboard, but it is something else altogether to actually walk through that door and past that "sign that has no force of law".

    Feel free to do so if that is your conviction, I eagerly await the video of the encounter. At this point in my life I, on the other hand, tend to handle such things so that the consequences are decided in my favor.

    Moving on (until you post a video of such an event)
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