• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Refused to provide a gun locker

t9alejandro

New member
Joined
Sep 19, 2013
Messages
3
Location
Seattle
Hey guys

I’m kind of at an loss here and would hope someone can give me some legal advice. I work at a county jail as a technician and as is my right would like to carry my gun to work. Guns are obviously not allowed inside the jail. However i thought that in areas were guns are not allowed washington state law says that employer shall provide gun lockers. The jail has gun lockers but the powers at be are telling me they are only for the officers. Also they mentioned to me that Ron Simms announced long time ago that he doesn’t want any county employee to carry their gun to work. Since when does ron simms overwrite state law?

Can someone inform me if they are in the right please
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
This should be moved to your state forum, since it's not a general question.
You'll get more useful answers.
Even if they have to provide a locker, for the meantime how about using the safe in your car? That way at least you're not vulnerable going to & from.
 

Dave_pro2a

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
2,132
Location
, ,
Here is the RCW. Only applies to court facilities (not jails) and only required to be provided to visitors, not employees:

If a facility is required by law to provide a lock box service to visitors, can they prohibit employees from using it?
 

tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,326
Location
Roy, WA
Here is the RCW. Only applies to court facilities (not jails) and only required to be provided to visitors, not employees:

This is the part you missed and what BigDave used to correct the issue at a state prison.

(8) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070">9.41.070 who, upon entering the place or facility, directly and promptly proceeds to the administrator of the facility or the administrator's designee and obtains written permission to possess the firearm while on the premises or checks his or her firearm. The person may reclaim the firearms upon leaving but must immediately and directly depart from the place or facility.

The way I read that is, either get permission from the administrator to carry it, or they must allow you to check it if you have a CPL.

Perhaps BigDave will chime in with more on his experience.
 

509rifas

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
252
Location
Yakima County
I work for what is also a government entity in the state of Washington. As an employer, they can prohibit you from exercising your rights, same as walmart can. As a visitor, it is a different case. I can't recall the case, but there was a WA supreme court case involving a bus driver who wanted to carry at work, and it was determined that when the state is acting as the employer, they do have the authority to prohibit possession.
If Ron Sims is the issue, dig as deep as you can in the policy manual, things often change without things being updated. If that doesn't work, try contacting whoever makes those decisions, and ask them about the policy and state you case as lightly as possible. You are a county employee and because of safety concerns because of where you go and who you work for, you would like the bear arms in defense of self as the WA Const allows, and would like to be able to check your weapons like the officers and general public are able to.
 

Dave_pro2a

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
2,132
Location
, ,
I work for what is also a government entity in the state of Washington. As an employer, they can prohibit you from exercising your rights, same as walmart can. As a visitor, it is a different case. I can't recall the case, but there was a WA supreme court case involving a bus driver who wanted to carry at work, and it was determined that when the state is acting as the employer, they do have the authority to prohibit possession.
If Ron Sims is the issue, dig as deep as you can in the policy manual, things often change without things being updated. If that doesn't work, try contacting whoever makes those decisions, and ask them about the policy and state you case as lightly as possible. You are a county employee and because of safety concerns because of where you go and who you work for, you would like the bear arms in defense of self as the WA Const allows, and would like to be able to check your weapons like the officers and general public are able to.

Difference: the Walmart worker is on private property before entering his actual workplace. The Gov worker is on public property until he enters his workspace and clocks on.

Metro has no legal obligation to check/secure a citizen's firearm upon request, unlike a courthouse.

You are a county employee and because of safety concerns because of where you go and who you work for, you would like the bear arms in defense of self

Status as a current or former employee of the government should not be taken into account for matters of civil rights, like the 2nd Amendment.
 

Vitaeus

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Messages
596
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Ahh, yes, I did miss that. So every day before work the OP would have to go straight to the administrator's office where they would be required to take the gun from the OP and stash it in a desk drawer until the end of shift when the OP would have to go back to the administrator's office to retrieve their gun before leaving the facility by the most direct route.



Absolutely. What requirement is there in law that says they have to provide it to employees?

The part where until he clocks in he is a private citizen, unless he is a sworn officer, but the rest of the thread doesn't support that. Of course he has to decide if the extra friction with his employer is worth the cost.
 

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
RCW 9.41.300does cite that to proceed to have your firearms check but this is where the teeth are.

I received similar resistance with the County Jail in Yakima but after addressing the County Commissioners and the County Prosecutor the Jail was made to comply but with defiance.


9.94.043 Deadly weapons -- Possession on premises by person not a prisoner -- Penalty.
RCW 9.94.043
Deadly weapons — Possession on premises by person not a prisoner — Penalty.


A person, other than a person serving a sentence in a penal institution of this state, is guilty of possession of contraband on the premises of a state correctional institution in the first degree if, without authorization to do so, the person knowingly possesses or has under his or her control a deadly weapon on or in the buildings or adjacent grounds subject to the care, control, or supervision of a state correctional institution. Deadly weapon is used as defined in RCW 9A.04.110: PROVIDED, That such correctional buildings, grounds, or property are properly posted pursuant to RCW 9.94.047, and such person has knowingly entered thereon: PROVIDED FURTHER, That the provisions of this section do not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the correctional institution premises, proceeds directly along an access road to the administration building and promptly checks his or her firearm(s) with the appropriate authorities. The person may reclaim his or her firearm(s) upon leaving, but he or she must immediately and directly depart from the premises.

Possession of contraband on the premises of a state correctional institution in the first degree is a class B felony.

9.94.049 "Correctional institution" and "state correctional institution" defined.

(1) For the purposes of this chapter, the term "correctional institution" means any place designated by law for the keeping of persons held in custody under process of law, or under lawful arrest, including state prisons, county and local jails, and other facilities operated by the department of corrections or local governmental units primarily for the purposes of punishment, correction, or rehabilitation following conviction of a criminal offense.

(2) For the purposes of RCW 9.94.043 and 9.94.045, "state correctional institution" means all state correctional facilities under the supervision of the secretary of the department of corrections used solely for the purpose of confinement of convicted felons.
 
Last edited:

jsanchez

Regular Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
499
Location
seattle
King county doesn't allow employee's to bring guns on their property. There are employee's who keep guns in their cars and since the county doesn't search employee cars there's your solution, just keep it out of sight and don't talk about, and don't get the reputation of being the gun guy at work. Good luck.
 

bebop4one

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
142
Location
Seattle
...don't get the reputation of being the gun guy at work...

I absolutely agree with that. I made the mistake at my last job of casually talking about my interest in firearms with a coworker on lunch break. Before I knew it he was blabbing to other coworkers "I wouldn't want to be around if they fired this guy" or "dude don't shoot I was just kidding". Not only is it anoying but it can make you look bad or raise suspicion in the ever growing world of anti 2A employers. Keep a low pro and you're all good :cool:
 

t9alejandro

New member
Joined
Sep 19, 2013
Messages
3
Location
Seattle
Thanks for all the responses. I'm just quiet embarrassed that as a sheriffs employee ( technician) , where the detention department ( which is not the sheriffs office ) denies me the right even thou they know what kind of clientele i have to deal with.

So having read all the responses, is tghe solution, I have the right as long as i'm not clocked in? ?
And the administrator would HAVE to take control of my weapon ?
 

BigDave

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
3,456
Location
Yakima, Washington, USA
Thanks for all the responses. I'm just quiet embarrassed that as a sheriffs employee ( technician) , where the detention department ( which is not the sheriffs office ) denies me the right even thou they know what kind of clientele i have to deal with.

So having read all the responses, is tghe solution, I have the right as long as i'm not clocked in? ?
And the administrator would HAVE to take control of my weapon ?

Did you even read the references I posted for you?
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...a-gun-locker&p=1987201&viewfull=1#post1987201

PROVIDED FURTHER, That the provisions of this section do not apply to a person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070 who, upon entering the correctional institution premises, proceeds directly along an access road to the administration building and promptly checks his or her firearm(s) with the appropriate authorities. The person may reclaim his or her firearm(s) upon leaving, but he or she must immediately and directly depart from the premises.

It does not say anything about employees but does state "person licensed pursuant to RCW 9.41.070"

Do not go into reading the RCW wanting to have it say a specific thing or support a specific position, read it and then see if your circumstances apply, remember our laws are based on what you cannot do not on what you can do, if it doesn't say you can't then you can.

You are receiving a typical response by someone not knowing the law and just making it up as they go which often derived from that you are doing something illegal when in fact they just do not know the law and abide by it.

As I stated before (hate repeating myself time and time again) you will likely have to go to the Council or Commissioners along with the City or County Prosecutor impute to resolve this issue.
From my understanding similar circumstances at the Walla Walla State Penn and now the Officers working there can check their firearms.
 

tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,326
Location
Roy, WA
I don't see anything at all about citizenship. The law only requires that a lock box or person designated to receive the firearm be provided for VISITORS to a court facility. An employee reporting for their assigned duty at the court house is not VISITING the court house - they are reporting for work. If they are there on off-duty time, for some other reason than reporting for work, then they are VISITING.

Correctional facilities are under a different paragraph in the statute and the wording is different. As BigDave pointed out - the word "VISITOR" applies only to court facilities, whereas the words "persons licensed" applies to correctional facilities. Two entirely different groups of people and different facilities (or portion of the facility).

Edit
I misread that.
 
Last edited:

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
So every day before work the OP would have to go straight to the administrator's office where they would be required to take the gun from the OP and stash it in a desk drawer until the end of shift when the OP would have to go back to the administrator's office to retrieve their gun before leaving the facility by the most direct route.


Can you see how that would play out? When reporting for work the "administrator" wouldn't be available until well after the "clock in" time for the employee thus making him/her late for work. At the end of the day the "administrator" would be "in a meeting" or off the premises until several hours after "clock out" time.

They'd just fire the employee for being chronically late.

Oh the ways that a government employer can "eff with" an employee who wants to push an issue they don't like.
 
Top