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Thread: Never know what you're going to encounter at the range

  1. #1
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Never know what you're going to encounter at the range

    So I decided to hit the range this morning; the NRA Headquarters range. When I arrived, there was no one waiting for a lane and very few on any lanes so in I went, to lane four. Before long some more people showed up. The man on lane three was shooting a long slide Glock 34, something I dont see often. He was good. His technique, hold, and fire control were right up there as was his accuracy.

    The person on my right unpacked a small semi-auto pistol and a long barreled single action revolver, both in .22 long rifle. The targets were B27s for head and upper torso, one of which was hung on the holder and sent out for use. This person was under five feet tall, perhaps around four feet ten inches, and to my real surprise was a woman. Now women are not uncommon on this range at all. But ones like this small lady are quite rare. She was maybe in her late 60s to early 70s with what appeared to be the onset of osteoporosis which gave her upper back a little hump and caused her to not be able to stand straight. A granny sweater completed the picture. She really looked like she stepped out of a Normal Rockwell painting.

    There she was with her shooting bag, two handguns, ammunition, and targets going at it like the rest of us. After I left I was kicking myself for not patting her on her shoulder and telling her Way to go. Clearly she refused to be a victim.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    After I left I was kicking myself for not patting her on her shoulder and telling her Way to go. Clearly she refused to be a victim.
    Not me! Condescension much? i might have complimented her shooting and held the door for her, but nothing that could have been interpreted as assault or condescension.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Not me! Condescension much? i might have complimented her shooting and held the door for her, but nothing that could have been interpreted as assault or condescension.
    Really? Assault? Condescension? How could giving kudos to a fellow shooter be considered to be assault or condescension? NRA instructors are taught to always take a positive approach and compliment students on what they have done right on the range. Why would it have been any different for a good shooter practicing her skills? SMH...

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Really? Assault? Condescension? How could giving kudos to a fellow shooter be considered to be assault or condescension? NRA instructors are taught to always take a positive approach and compliment students on what they have done right on the range. Why would it have been any different for a good shooter practicing her skills? SMH...
    Assaut is the unwanted touching of another. Actually, assault is the offer/threat to do so. There is noting about the motive of the touch that is involved. You touch me without my permission and it is technically not assault but battery. Neither one are good things to be doing.

    Condescension? Wanting to pat her on the back and tell her "Way to go" - how come you did not have the same feeings and desires about and towards the guy in Lane 3 with the Glock 34?

    Yes, both are feel-good stories, But the way you tell each one says different things.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Really? Assault? Condescension? How could giving kudos to a fellow shooter be considered to be assault or condescension? NRA instructors are taught ...
    NRA instructors of shotgun-chic elites. BTDT burned the t-shirt
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    NRA instructors of shotgun-chic elites. BTDT burned the t-shirt
    Wow. Your comment betrays some real issues. I'm sure the leadership of the NRA went into mourning the day you burned your shirt.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Christ, I'm sorry I even posted the damned thing.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Really? Assault? Condescension? How could giving kudos to a fellow shooter be considered to be assault or condescension? NRA instructors are taught to always take a positive approach and compliment students on what they have done right on the range. Why would it have been any different for a good shooter practicing her skills? SMH...
    Southernboy may not realize it, but commenting on her age and physical condition really does show condescension.

    Just recognize her as a literal equal, and forget about age and physical condition.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Christ, I'm sorry I even posted the damned thing.
    Well, I have not seen elderly women at the range much ... I saw nothing wrong with your post.

    People should read postings and give posters the benefit of the doubt .... ? about a post, PM the poster ...

    Everyone posts about little boys at the range .. they pedophiles? Nah.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Christ, I'm sorry I even posted the damned thing.
    So are we. But for different reasons.

    I know you meant well, but it sure did not come out that way.

    I am sad that you cannot see why we got upset.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  11. #11
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Good Lord, I almost can't believe some of the posts in this tiny thread (Nightmare, skidmark, Citizen). I don't know whether to laugh or feel sorry. As I mentioned, my only regret is posting anything at all. The saving grace for me is I know what I wrote and why, and that is all that really matters to me.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  12. #12
    Regular Member ScottFree's Avatar
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    I was kinda surprised myself. I read no ill intent into what you wrote (op) until I saw it being twisted before my eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Good Lord, I almost can't believe some of the posts in this tiny thread (Nightmare, skidmark, Citizen). I don't know whether to laugh or feel sorry. As I mentioned, my only regret is posting anything at all. The saving grace for me is I know what I wrote and why, and that is all that really matters to me.
    I got what you were saying and have no problem with it. I am amazed at how sensitive some "libertarians" are getting these days. Let them. Just continue to post your valid observations.

  14. #14
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Really? Assault? Condescension? How could giving kudos to a fellow shooter be considered to be assault or condescension? NRA instructors are taught to always take a positive approach and compliment students on what they have done right on the range. Why would it have been any different for a good shooter practicing her skills? SMH...
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well, I have not seen elderly women at the range much ... I saw nothing wrong with your post.

    People should read postings and give posters the benefit of the doubt .... ? about a post, PM the poster ...

    Everyone posts about little boys at the range .. they pedophiles? Nah.
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottFree View Post
    I was kinda surprised myself. I read no ill intent into what you wrote (op) until I saw it being twisted before my eyes.
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I got what you were saying and have no problem with it. I am amazed at how sensitive some "libertarians" are getting these days. Let them. Just continue to post your valid observations.
    Thanks for the kind posts, gentlemen. I am pleased to know you saw no ill intent or anything of the sort others seemed to discover in my post. Actually I was quite happy for the lady. Here was an elderly woman who I suspect was seeing to her own protection and preservation. I'd like to think she was of a mind to refuse to be a victim... as I wrote. Either way, it was not something I tend to seen every day and my take is, good for her.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member fjpro2a's Avatar
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    Overlooking the bigger problem

    Southernboy, Your post was truly American. what in the world is it with Nightmare, Skidmark, Citizen, etc.? When I first joined, I looked up to those who had walked the walk, but I have seen a gradual change over the past few years that has made me feel uneasy. I would rather see those who think they know everything be equally concerned with all the laws, rules, and judges decisions that are hurting the open carry cause. Keep posting!! Most of us enjoy good stories like this.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    I would not have commented had this thread not already gone awry, but I'm going to state something from a woman's perspective.

    I'm not "elderly" but am closer to 60 than 30, and remarks on what I can or can't do "at my age" are not welcome. I know my mother, at 75, feels the same way.

    Women have spent a lot of time over the past century fighting the idea that we are differently abled simply because we are of a different gender. What you saw is still rare enough that you might notice it, but remarking on it to her could very well have been offensive. She is another human being practicing at the range; treating her any differently from anyone else draws attention to differences rather than abilities.

    Yes, I am dismayed by the "by women, for women" phase that is running through gun ownership right now, even as I recognize its benefits in bringing more people to the shooting world. And this is one of those cases where our interaction in another thread has influenced my opinion.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Campaign Veteran Nelson_Muntz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpro2a View Post
    I have seen a gradual change over the past few years that has made me feel uneasy.
    yup. quit posting and have just been watching over the past few years. clubbish membership mentality of senior and some not so senior members gained steam.
    i've had a few interesting oc experiences i have no desire to share. dont need the grief. some of you really need to rein yourselves in. most of us are here to
    advocate for what we do (oc) and the eliteism, judgementalism and p/c'ness of some is difficult to wade through. enjoy your fiefdom.

    i shouldn't have posted anything but i just wanted to say: s/b, thanks for sharing neighbor. i would have been surprised and pleased enough to say something too.

    rant over, enjoy your bashing.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Say somethinng? Yes. Pat her on the shoulder? No. Offer to shake her hand? Maybe.

    And I still want to know why S/B wants to say something to the woman shooter but not the guy with the Glock, who he reports was quite impressive.

    It's that difference there that bothers me.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpro2a View Post
    Southernboy, Your post was truly American. what in the world is it with Nightmare, Skidmark, Citizen, etc.?
    There's nothing wrong with those posts. SB was unintentionally condescending to the elderly shooter.

    He applied some sort of stereotypical thinking. For all he knew she may have been an Olympic medalist in the 1960's, or a retired police detective just keeping her skills sharp. Assuming there is some special accomplishment for her personally based on the typical elderly person is just asking for trouble by generalizing.

    There's no particular harm in what SB did. But, he also might not get the same reaction the next time he does the same thing.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  20. #20
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelson_Muntz View Post
    yup. quit posting and have just been watching over the past few years. clubbish membership mentality of senior and some not so senior members gained steam.
    i've had a few interesting oc experiences i have no desire to share. dont need the grief. some of you really need to rein yourselves in. most of us are here to
    advocate for what we do (oc) and the eliteism, judgementalism and p/c'ness of some is difficult to wade through. enjoy your fiefdom.

    i shouldn't have posted anything but i just wanted to say: s/b, thanks for sharing neighbor. i would have been surprised and pleased enough to say something too.

    rant over, enjoy your bashing.
    You're spot on right about that. I think I'll join you. The waters have gotten a little too murky here in recent times. I posted this exact text on another gun website and received only positive responses... not that I was looking for them. Kinda tells you something, eh? In fact, I was considering putting the link to this thread on that posting so they could see how childish this is.

    You up for lunch sometime here in the not to distant future?
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    I just asked my wife how she would have felt in those circumstances, and she agreed with me. Note that she is just five feet, has a lipoma that would be a 'maid's hump' were it between her shoulders and not on her right shoulder and is seventy-five years old.

    When I next see a particular acquaintance, I will ask her if I remember. She is a Little Person with osteogenisis imperfecta (brittle bone disease) that lives and travels alone, very concerned with maintaining her independence at all costs. She would never recover, for instance, in a fall from the driver's seat while getting into her wheelchair.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    That's okay Southern Boy...,

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Christ, I'm sorry I even posted the damned thing.
    maybe you can start a new thread called "Never know what you're going to encounter on the Board"!

    On the other hand, if you had done as you said, maybe she would have said "Thanks, son.", or maybe something like "What you tryin' to say, whippersnapper?", like you said, you never know.

    sidestreet

    Jeremiah 29 vs. 11-13

    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

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    Campaign Veteran Nelson_Muntz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    You up for lunch sometime here in the not to distant future?
    you bet. i'll pm you with a date good for me. at lunch i'll tell you about how i scared the daylights out of the manassas dmv guard, two encounters at the supermarket including a robbery, and how as a contractor i escaped from the navy yard last monday. ill even show u pictures i took on my cell phone. wouldn't want to share any of those events here. someone would surely tell me i was wrong somehow.

    if anyone is in manassas and wants to join s/b and i for lunch on a weekend, drop me a pm and he and i will coordinate with you.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Southernboy may not realize it, but commenting on her age and physical condition really does show condescension.

    Just recognize her as a literal equal, and forget about age and physical condition.
    Where did this come from? It's not like he was planning to say, "Way to go, little old lady!" or "That was very good for a fragile old broad!" His thought was simply "Way to go." and a pat upon the shoulder (on the other hand, unexpected physical contact with anybody one doesn't know is always risky). Either point is really moot, inasmuch as it was an afterthought, upon which he did not act. The world has so much PC in it, it's almost reached the point where people are afraid to contact another person - except via txtmsg. Pax...
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    And I still want to know why S/B wants to say something to the woman shooter but not the guy with the Glock, who he reports was quite impressive.

    It's that difference there that bothers me.

    stay safe.
    The woman shooter may have been an Olympic-class pistol shooter in the 1950s or '60s (odds are excellent that she wasn't, but it is still a possibility), which has nothing to do with today. What SB reportedly saw was a somewhat physically challenged, older lady shooting a pistol with - I assume - adequate effectiveness. What was wrong with thinking he should have given her kudos of some kind, as a means of encouragement to continue enjoying recreational shooting? If "the guy with Glock was quite impressive", he probably didn't need any encouragement (but a "Well done!" probably wouldn't have hurt his feelings). I understand your point to be, "Why one and not the other?" It's a matter of perception within the surrounding environment and personal choice. Selective actions may single some out and ignore others completely, which is okay. It only becomes not okay if you are an official judging a competitive event. Then one should try to recognize everyone's efforts - even those with "bad luck" and the abject failures (but, you don't publicly proclaim to John, Mary and Erasmus, "You three really sucked today!"). Common sense should be the guiding factor in how we pass out praise, as well as how we address the shortcomings of the less-than-praiseworthy. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 09-21-2013 at 04:53 PM.
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