Never know what you're going to encounter at the range

Citizen said:

Southernboy may not realize it, but commenting on her age and physical condition really does show condescension.

Just recognize her as a literal equal, and forget about age and physical condition.

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Where did this come from? It's not like he was planning to say, "Way to go, little old lady!" or "That was very good for a fragile old broad!" His thought was simply "Way to go." and a pat upon the shoulder (on the other hand, unexpected physical contact with anybody one doesn't know is always risky). Either point is really moot, inasmuch as it was an afterthought, upon which he did not act. The world has so much PC in it, it's almost reached the point where people are afraid to contact another person - except via txtmsg. Pax...

skidmark said:

And I still want to know why S/B wants to say something to the woman shooter but not the guy with the Glock, who he reports was quite impressive.

It's that difference there that bothers me.

stay safe.

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The woman shooter may have been an Olympic-class pistol shooter in the 1950s or '60s (odds are excellent that she wasn't, but it is still a possibility), which has nothing to do with today. What SB reportedly saw was a somewhat physically challenged, older lady shooting a pistol with - I assume - adequate effectiveness. What was wrong with thinking he should have given her kudos of some kind, as a means of encouragement to continue enjoying recreational shooting? If "the guy with Glock was quite impressive", he probably didn't need any encouragement (but a "Well done!" probably wouldn't have hurt his feelings). I understand your point to be, "Why one and not the other?" It's a matter of perception within the surrounding environment and personal choice. Selective actions may single some out and ignore others completely, which is okay. It only becomes not okay if you are an official judging a competitive event. Then one should try to recognize everyone's efforts - even those with "bad luck" and the abject failures (but, you don't publicly proclaim to John, Mary and Erasmus, "You three really sucked today!"). Common sense should be the guiding factor in how we pass out praise, as well as how we address the shortcomings of the less-than-praiseworthy. Pax...

Take off your political-correctness goggles, boys, and enjoy the positive story.

stealthyeliminator said:

Take off your political-correctness goggles, boys, and enjoy the positive story.

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Its not political-correctness. Its about a fella who condescended an elderly woman without realizing it. Its about a social faux pas, not political correctness.

Imagine encountering Danica Patrick at 80 and complimenting her on driving a stick shift.

Oh, it's political correctness.

Nightmare said:

Not me! Condescension much? i might have complimented her shooting and held the door for her, but nothing that could have been interpreted as assault or condescension.

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Hold the door for her?? Heck No!! That could be considered 'condescending' to her and she might take offense to it! I mean, if one can't compliment her shooting without being condescending, how in the world can you hold the door for her??

My wife just got home from work and I asked her to read OP. I asked her what she would do/say to SouthernBoy. She said she'd say thanks and go about her business.

So I had her read some of the other posts and she said guy was just trying to be nice, some people just read to much into everything.

But my wife is only in her mid-50s, 5' 1", with a touch of osteoporosis, so what does she know?

Citizen said:

Its not political-correctness. Its about a fella who condescended an elderly woman without realizing it. Its about a social faux pas, not political correctness.

Imagine encountering Danica Patrick at 80 and complimenting her on driving a stick shift.

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That's a load of BS if ever I heard. How in the hell can you "condescend" someone when you don't say or do a thing? That has got to be one of the dumbest things I have heard on this site.

davidmcbeth said:

the tide is turning on this thread .... maybe a new thread "Never know what you're going to encounter in your colon !" In 3-D !

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Funny you should say that. Two days ago I had my 5-year colonoscopy.

Gil223 said:

The woman shooter may have been an Olympic-class pistol shooter in the 1950s or '60s (odds are excellent that she wasn't, but it is still a possibility), which has nothing to do with today. What SB reportedly saw was a somewhat physically challenged, older lady shooting a pistol with - I assume - adequate effectiveness. What was wrong with thinking he should have given her kudos of some kind, as a means of encouragement to continue enjoying recreational shooting? If "the guy with Glock was quite impressive", he probably didn't need any encouragement (but a "Well done!" probably wouldn't have hurt his feelings). I understand your point to be, "Why one and not the other?" It's a matter of perception within the surrounding environment and personal choice. Selective actions may single some out and ignore others completely, which is okay. It only becomes not okay if you are an official judging a competitive event. Then one should try to recognize everyone's efforts - even those with "bad luck" and the abject failures (but, you don't publicly proclaim to John, Mary and Erasmus, "You three really sucked today!"). Common sense should be the guiding factor in how we pass out praise, as well as how we address the shortcomings of the less-than-praiseworthy. Pax...

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Hell, why not the other 13 lanes. Wouldn't want the other shooters to feel slighted. But why stop there. I could have driven over to Bull Run Regional Park and congratulated the folks shooting trap and skeet. Bet they were doing great. And since the Izaac Walton League is close, I could stop by there for a congrats to the handgun/rifle people, the shotgunners, and the archery folks. Then on to Blue Ridge Arsenal followed by Sharpshooters and Clark Brothers. Could have made a day of patting people on their shoulders and backs and telling them how well they're doing.

SouthernBoy said:

That's a load of BS if ever I heard. How in the hell can you "condescend" someone when you don't say or do a thing? That has got to be one of the dumbest things I have heard on this site.

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Agreed! Condescension is the result of an action, not of a non-action. Put me down for a +1 SB! Pax...

SouthernBoy said:

That's a load of BS if ever I heard. How in the hell can you "condescend" someone when you don't say or do a thing? That has got to be one of the dumbest things I have heard on this site.

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My fault. I had lost track of the fact that you didn't actually speak to her. I apologize.

A change is a brewin'

I have started to sense a change, albeit a small change in the way Skidmark, Nightmare, and yes, even Citizen are following up with additional comments. Perhaps, I could even say they are taking a small 1/2 step backward. Most of us originally understood the thrust of S/B's thread, and I am pleased to say that those who initially criticized are now seeing the unnecessary damage to our cause by meaningless "left jabs." S/B, you hung in there. Kudos. I will say again, let's concentrate on the laws, rulings, etc that are hurting the open carry cause, because there are many.

SouthernBoy said:

Actually I was quite happy for the lady. Here was an elderly woman who I suspect was seeing to her own protection and preservation.

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I find a lot of time people read to much into email/written comments. Southern Boy - I would be proud to see my 79 y/o mom at the range too. If she had been carrying in Houston about 10 years ago the perp that grabbed her purse would not have wrenched her back - she would have let him have the purse and drop him when he ran with it. I think she'd get a kick socializing with fellow shooters.

Brings to my mind when I was little - the scene in 'To Kill a Mockingbird' - kids walking the granny on the porch in the rocking chair - something like 'don't mess with her - she's got a confederate pistol under that blanket on her lap'.....

HPmatt said:

I find a lot of time people read to much into email/written comments. Southern Boy - I would be proud to see my 79 y/o mom at the range too. If she had been carrying in Houston about 10 years ago the perp that grabbed her purse would not have wrenched her back - she would have let him have the purse and drop him when he ran with it. I think she'd get a kick socializing with fellow shooters.

Brings to my mind when I was little - the scene in 'To Kill a Mockingbird' - kids walking the granny on the porch in the rocking chair - something like 'don't mess with her - she's got a confederate pistol under that blanket on her lap'.....

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Drop someone as he's running away? For property? Is that what you're saying?

What's the take away? If you observe something that you believe is awesome and you want to do something positive to reinforce the situation, DO NOT under any circumstances relay it on ANY FORUM. There's always that crowd who will find fault that you did it wrong. That keyboard and monitor shield makes them impervious to real world effects. Internet bullies and tough guys make full use of this protective barrier. Some will even claim that they act no differently in the real world.

eye95 said:

I got what you were saying and have no problem with it. I am amazed at how sensitive some "libertarians" are getting these days. Let them. Just continue to post your valid observations.

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As a libertarian I take offense to that! I'm kidding of course. I didn't see anything wrong with what was posted.

Tess said:

Drop someone as he's running away? For property? Is that what you're saying?

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Didn't include full story - my mom was assaulted - bruises on hands and head, don't remember if she was pushed down, but she needed therapy on her arm. Thank G-d no bones were broken. This happened in front of Walgreen's in Houston during the day. Of course the police never found the guy - one of hundreds wandering through the Montrose area.

91 whiskey said:

As a libertarian I take offense to that! I'm kidding of course. I didn't see anything wrong with what was posted.

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I second that.

If I went to the range and saw an old lady with health problems doing some great shooting, I'd be as impressed as hell, it isn't what you normally see.

Sometimes we just not need to be so sensitive and learn and take the good will meant behind a comment and a gesture even if it may appear as condenscending I doubt that was the OP's intention. ( patting someone as assault , Puhleaze I have old ladies pat me on the shoulder all the time, of course I am the sort of guy that goes out of my way to open doors for them or pick up their keys when they drop them, its not assault it's a gesture of affection).

late arrival

This thread was active while I was being too busy with work and medical problems to notice. As I read it, I couldn't help but be amused by the comments back and forth. The irony is that the folks who thought the gesture would have been condescending were, themselves, taking on a pontifical role. Really, all any of us has is an opinion based on our own worldview, and we have to remember, that's not reality, just a model. Whether or not the gesture was appropriate, condescension, or battery, being entirely hypothetical, is a matter of speculation.

What I was thinking was that, from the description, I'm pretty sure I know that woman. She's a certified NRA training counselor, and teaches instructors how to teach basic pistol, personal protection in and outside the home courses. She's a lovely person and would have welcomed the contact Southernboy described, graciously ignoring the fact that she's been an expert marks-woman for twice as long as he's been alive and has been a certified instructor most of that time.

Btw, assault and battery involve the "offensive" touching of another, and that is determined on the basis of the "reasonable man" standard - not every touch, even one that is in fact offensive, is legally offensive. When someone carelessly brushes past on the subway platform in a rush to get somewhere, one is expected to be able to tolerate a bit of the hustle and bustle of ordinary life with humans. And when he lays his hand on your shoulder in what you might think is a condescending gesture, a court's going to interpret it as a bit too personal, but friendly, and not "offensive". This has implications for self defense. A person who takes offense easily should be aware of that propensity in himself and learn to be tolerant. "An armed society is a polite society" not because people are afraid of riling up someone who's carrying, but because people who are carrying have to take special steps to be polite. When you've got death on your hip ready to serve you on a moment's notice, you want to be careful, as Ps. 37 says, to "cease from anger and forsake wrath".