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Thread: SWAT/CERT Team ordered to stand down @ Navy Yard

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    SWAT/CERT Team ordered to stand down @ Navy Yard

    In the 1930's, Hitler sent his assassins out to to murder his own people to propogate gun control....

    CERT Team Stand Down
    The only terrorists I see nowadays are at the Capital.


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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    In the 1930's, Hitler sent his assassins out to to murder his own people to propogate gun control....

    CERT Team Stand Down
    So, before all or even any of the facts are known, you are claiming this to be a false flag operation by the Obama administration? SMH....

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    Capitol Police SWAT team was told to stand down by their own superiors. As far as I know, the Navy Yard is outside their jurisdiction.

    I've been going back and forth on this. I've concluded that the order to stand down was appropriate--outside their jurisdiction. But, if the SWAT were really good guys--and that's a very big "if" in my mind--they would not be censurable for ignoring the order and saving lives.

    In the big picture, I am not moved. As a libertarian pointed out, a killer killed some people working for an organization that kills people. (The Navy was all set to launch cruise missiles into Syria on the Chief Killer's orders in violation of international law and the US constitution.) So, while on one level I have some sympathy for the deceased individually, I can't work up too much outrage in the big picture. And, certainly won't complain when paramilitary forces who hide behind cutesy acronyms (Containment and Emergency Response Team) come under criticism.

    About the only good thing I can see for sure about capitol cop CERT is that they're unlikely to be perpetrating SWAT raids on citizen's homes. And, that they might one day save some tourists at the capitol; but that could also be handled by DC SWAT.
    Last edited by Citizen; 09-20-2013 at 03:35 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    So, before all or even any of the facts are known, you are claiming this to be a false flag operation by the Obama administration? SMH....
    Oh, I don't get that he's claiming that. I took more as a reminder that its a possibility. It doesn't hurt to be reminded that our government has owned up to planning these things.

    Lets see. There was the Gulf of Tonkin incident--actually admitted to by McNamara forty years after the fact. There was that military proposal to shoot down an airliner and blame it on Cuba to justify an invasion back in the 60's.

    Government twists facts and lies all the time to justify what it wants--to create the impression it wants in the minds of the people. Actually running a false flag operation is just one step further toward the same goal of molding public opinion. Its right up there with agents provocatuer. The wonder is that anybody is surprised.
    Last edited by Citizen; 09-20-2013 at 03:41 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Oh, I don't get that he's claiming that. I took more as a reminder that its a possibility. It doesn't hurt to be reminded that our government has owned up to planning these things.

    Lets see. There was the Gulf of Tonkin incident--actually admitted to by McNamara forty years after the fact. There was that military proposal to shoot down an airliner and blame it on Cuba to justify an invasion back in the 60's.

    Government twists facts and lies all the time to justify what it wants--to create the impression it wants in the minds of the people. Actually running a false flag operation is just one step further toward the same goal of molding public opinion. Its right up there with agents provocatuer. The wonder is that anybody is surprised.
    Gov't Response: Hey, we pay guys to just think of plans...plans, plans, plans. Not all the plans produced are winners. But even some loser plans get the go ahead anyway. Sucks to be you.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-20-2013 at 04:04 PM.

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    Folks, we have to stop perpetuating the myth that Hitler enacted gun control in Germany. The prior regime did. THAT is one huge factor in the Nazis coming to power.

    The only thing the Nazis did was relax gun control for folks apart from the Jews and other "lesser" people.

    The moral of the story is that the tyrants don't always grab the guns, but that grabbing the guns, even with the best of intent, enables tyranny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    they would not be censurable for ignoring the order and saving lives.

    In the big picture, I am not moved. As a libertarian pointed out, a killer killed some people working for an organization that kills people. (The Navy was all set to launch cruise missiles into Syria on the Chief Killer's orders in violation of international law and the US constitution.) So, while on one level I have some sympathy for the deceased individually, I can't work up too much outrage in the big picture.
    Assad gassed to death innocent children. Why cant he gas some people like you. That's the outrage. Of course, if Assad gassed you no one else in the world would be outraged and no one would do anything about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    Assad gassed to death innocent children. Why cant he gas some people like you. That's the outrage. Of course, if Assad gassed you no one else in the world would be outraged and no one would do anything about it.
    OK. Assad gassed people. Whatever you say.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    SWAT/CERT Team ordered to stand down @ Navy Yard

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    OK. Assad gassed people. Whatever you say.
    Even if he did (I believe he did), we can't act. How many such atrocities have we ignored? We kinda have to ignore them, or we'd spend all of our resources trying to save everyone. No. before we act we need a legitimate security concern==for OUR security.


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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    Assad gassed to death innocent children. Why cant he gas some people like you. That's the outrage. Of course, if Assad gassed you no one else in the world would be outraged and no one would do anything about it.
    Onus, what has the world done towards Assad for this deed...absolutely NOTHING!!

    and you are being a bit harsh with your pronouncement of a death sentence for Citizen speaking, aren't you?

    I for one would miss his intellectual bantering instead of your contribution to the thread this fine day.

    ipse
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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    Assad gassed to death innocent children. Why cant he gas some people like you. That's the outrage. Of course, if Assad gassed you no one else in the world would be outraged and no one would do anything about it.
    Uhh, what is so wrong with what he said? I'm in the military and what he said makes sense. Yes if I were to be killed that would be sad for certain people. But my JOB is to help kill those that aren't deterred by our military "might." Therefor if someone was looking to attack the US for whatever reason it SHOULD be us in uniform that are the target along with other government employees.

    So yes, while on a personal level it is sad that these people died, in the larger picture that is kinda what they signed up for. To be willing to lay down their lives for their country while trying to make the enemy do the same for theirs.

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    Onus if free to take a flight to Turkey, then cross the boarder to teach this bad man a lesson...nobody is stopping him.


    Back to the subject matter of the thread .... still no word as to why the SWAT team was called off ... I thought maybe they were needed at a dog kennel .. but alas, nothing is known. I would guess that someone screwed up and this guy's job is worth more than 12 lives.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-21-2013 at 03:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    Onus, what has the world done towards Assad for this deed...absolutely NOTHING!!

    and you are being a bit harsh with your pronouncement of a death sentence for Citizen speaking, aren't you?

    I for one would miss his intellectual bantering instead of your contribution to the thread this fine day.

    ipse

    Thanks, Solus.

    Please understand that Onus and I have a history. He was banned under his old username and sneaked back onto the forum under his current name. I bashed him pretty frequently under his old name.

    I knew when I read his anti-Citizen post above that he was just being provocative. That's his style. He probably doesn't believe or care much about what happened in Syria; I'm thinking he just saw a chance to post provocatively and took the stance that fit what he wanted to do.
    Last edited by Citizen; 09-21-2013 at 09:02 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Onus if free to take a flight to Turkey, then cross the boarder to teach this bad man a lesson...nobody is stopping him.


    Back to the subject matter of the thread .... still no word as to why the SWAT team was called off ... I thought maybe they were needed at a dog kennel .. but alas, nothing is known. I would guess that someone screwed up and this guy's job is worth more than 12 lives.
    He should walk across the border to pick crops and apply for Syrian welfare benefits... Evidentially according to him that's how you really bring down a country
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    He should walk across the border to pick crops and apply for Syrian welfare benefits... Evidentially according to him that's how you really bring down a country
    He may be right ! Billy Joel song .....
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 09-21-2013 at 11:51 AM.

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