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Thread: The two faces of OC.

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    The two faces of OC.

    As I see it, there are two types of people who choose to openly carry their firearm. There are those who are obviously trying to make a statement and those who wish simply to exercise their right to do so. Each group has a definitive "look"; one which appears to say radical, the other conservative. I see them as opposing forces of the same cause each doing what they feel is necessary to achieve the same goal. I'm interested to hear your thoughts and if you think my observations have any merit.
    Last edited by Breadslinger; 09-22-2013 at 09:10 AM.

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    Well,,,

    Simply,,, I see,,
    Guys that go to town, sooo they can carry their gun to make a statement!
    I,,, carry a gun so I can be a little safer when I NEED to go to town!

    My "Guns Save Lives" sticker gets noticed more, and makes a bigger impact than the gun I carry!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

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    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member LeMat's Avatar
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    There are those, like me, who carry a firearm for one simple reason - to protect myself and my family from those who would do us harm.

    And then there are those who decide to do it as a political statement, who do it solely to be confrontational. Strapping it on and getting the video camera out, getting all lathered up just hoping a cop will stop 'em and they can post the video on metube. Younger fellas who are part of the "Look at me! Pay attention to me!" generation.

    ETA: Looks like I had not answered the question quite correctly. I choose to OC because it is more comfortable, simple as that. Not to make a statement, not to prove a point, not to assert some right, not to shock and awe, not to garner attention so I can "educate the ignorant masses", not to "educate" cops. Simply because it is more comfortable.
    Last edited by LeMat; 09-22-2013 at 12:21 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breadslinger View Post
    As I see it, there are two types of people who choose to openly carry their firearm. There are those who are obviously trying to make a statement and those who wish simply to exercise their right to do so. Each group has a definitive "look"; one which appears to say radical, the other conservative. I see them as opposing forces of the same cause each doing what they feel is necessary to achieve the same goal. I'm interested to hear your thoughts and if you think my observations have any merit.
    I fit neither group.

    I OC because I am always armed. OC is the more comfortable way to carry a sidearm, especially a full-size one.

    That fact that it is my right to carry a firearm is not part of the reason that I do it; it's just a fortunate fact of my birthplace.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran ATM's Avatar
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    I don't oppose other open carriers and I'm not sure what our shared "cause" is or our one goal.

    Reasons, methods and goals of carrying vary in preference and priority to the same degree that choices of hairstyles, vehicles and vocations do.

    I carry. I rarely take any further steps to conceal that fact.

    I am prepared to deal with attention be it positive, neutral or negative neither seeking to create such encounters nor to avoid them.

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    If there are half a million OC'ers and you got them all to write a 1 page essay on Their reason for open carry I bet you would find that there at similarity's and difference but the common theme would be: We all have our own reasons for doing what we do. I OC'ed a few cop shops in town, do I fit your "young kid looking for attention" category? I would argue NO. First off I am not young secondly I believe we have a responsibility to keep the government honest.You do it your way and I will do it mine.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: The two faces of OC.

    Quote Originally Posted by mac702 View Post
    i fit neither group.

    I oc because i am always armed. Oc is the more comfortable way to carry a sidearm, especially a full-size one.

    That fact that it is my right to carry a firearm is not part of the reason that i do it; it's just a fortunate fact of my birthplace.
    this^^^! +1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breadslinger View Post
    I'm interested to hear your thoughts and if you think my observations have any merit.
    I do think that your observations have merit, and even in a larger sense. There is a spectrum of RKABA advocacy, from posters here, for instance, sharpening their wits and improving overall knowledge to folks that think their wits and knowledge stylin' on the head of a pin already.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Yes... there are two faces of OC...

    Those who legally OC for whatever reasons they consider valid ranging from comfort to supporting the right to bear arms by being "in your face" with their open carry .. and using recordings to show the illegality and/or unprofessional behavior of those who would oppose exercising a right in a legal manner...

    And those who say they support the right to bear arms while they disparage those who legally do because they themselves are too damn scared to actually do it (or only want it done in ways they think are "acceptable") knowing that if they actually do it, actually walk the walk, they will stand out from the crowd and they might have to defend their choice to uphold the right to bear arms in real life to real people in face to face situations instead of just with a letter to a politician who uses that letter for toilet paper .. and they just might need a recording in court to prove they didn't do anything illegal.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 09-22-2013 at 04:50 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: The two faces of OC.

    @Bikenut - Friend you make great points. Today most people choose the easy way. Why? Well it's easy. No hit on them for that. However the easy way today, may aid in making things much harder for all of us in the future. It's a personal choice, like voting. If you don't do it that's fine, but don't be caught off guard when you get the goverment you deserve. Do I open carry to draw attention? No, however if it makes people think about taking responsibility for their own safety, I say bonus! A silent/unseen group is always the easiest group to take rights from.

    The old GIGO saying applies to much in life - Garbage in Garbage out.
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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breadslinger View Post
    ....
    No merit whatsoever.

    First of all, some Open Carry because at this time it is their only option. Others because they do not wish to be registered on a government CC list. A list that may be compromised by a news organization for instance.

    Second of all, what about the people who open carry for self defense?

    Third, what does a "radical" look like and what does a "conservative" look like? Are tats and a beard "conservative"? Is dressing as a pink ninja "radical"?




    Quote Originally Posted by LeMat View Post
    And then there are those who decide to do it as a political statement, who do it solely to be confrontational. Strapping it on and getting the video camera out, getting all lathered up just hoping a cop will stop 'em and they can post the video on metube. Younger fellas who are part of the "Look at me! Pay attention to me!" generation.

    So, strapping on a sidearm is cool. Strapping on a sidearm while protecting one's self with an audio/video device is confrontational... Last I heard it takes two to tango. If the Open carriers of the world were left alone there would be no Youtube Videos. As if a cop says to himself "oh, that guy is a conservative and doesn't go on the Youtubes. I'll just drive on by as I give him a big friendly wave. THAT guy has a video camera. He MUST be looking for a fight. I think I will accommodate him!!!"



    This thread is already full of fail. It ain't radicals vs conservatives. It's open carriers vs hypocrites within our own community.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 09-22-2013 at 08:42 PM.
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    I believe you have over simplified the entire open carry group. What kind of research are you basing this on?
    I believe there is a common bond regardless of the mummeries open carry attitudes. Among the many reasons for OCing every Ocer I have talked to always add they believe they have a right or are a 2nd amendment supporter.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    ... are a 2nd amendment supporter.
    What about the Ist Amendment and the rest of the Constitution? Strapping on a sidearm is wicked cool but strapping on a video camera is "confrontational"?
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    What about the Ist Amendment and the rest of the Constitution? Strapping on a sidearm is wicked cool but strapping on a video camera is "confrontational"?
    It would appear to me a little off topic. However whenever doing a legal constitutional supported activity out of the norm for the average person whom they believed is an intrusion on their safety or privacy there may be a certain level of opposition or confrontation. Not sure what your point is. I was not trying to indicate the 2nd was the amendment above all just my opinion of most Ocers who may not agree on all gun issues however appear to all support the 2nd.
    Last edited by 28kfps; 09-22-2013 at 11:21 PM.

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    I've read ALL the post herein and yet, since the Steelers lost and I'm now a bit... um... fuzzy, I'm not sure I'd present the best summation.

    I'll try later.


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    You are free to be a Steelers fan, no need to tell me why.

    Just as I support the right to carry; I don't have to explain why.


    Go Bears!

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    It would appear to me a little off topic. However whenever doing a legal constitutional supported activity out of the norm for the average person whom they believed is an intrusion on their safety or privacy there may be a certain level of opposition or confrontation. Not sure what your point is. I was not trying to indicate the 2nd was the amendment above all just my opinion of most Ocers who may not agree on all gun issues however appear to all support the 2nd.
    Not directed at you personally, sorry. Just expounding on the idiotic comment that protecting yourself via audio or video is now somehow "confrontational" as apposed to a prudent form of self defense. i guess the countless threads on audio/video, phone apps, and equipment here are just evidence of a bunch of radicals giving the community a bad name. Look at me crowd.(sarcasm off)

    There's two faces of the OC crowd alright.

    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member Turbod'1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATM View Post
    I carry. I rarely take any further steps to conceal that fact.

    I am prepared to deal with attention be it positive, neutral or negative neither seeking to create such encounters nor to avoid them.
    Not a surprise that an ATM might be targeted and therefore... hardened against attack.



    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    No merit whatsoever.

    First of all, some Open Carry because at this time it is their only option. Others because they do not wish to be registered on a government CC list. A list that may be compromised by a news organization for instance.
    In my case, it was my understanding that I'd have to register my firearm within 60 days of becoming a resident. Period.

    And now that I have --in the event someone breaks in and I must use it-- I guess I'm covered AND since I'm not to sure about CCW here in Vegas (for the reason you mentioned (it's been done before)), I now OC.


    So, strapping on a sidearm is cool. Strapping on a sidearm while protecting one's self with an audio/video device is confrontational... Last I heard it takes two to tango. If the Open carriers of the world were left alone there would be no Youtube Videos. As if a cop says to himself "oh, that guy is a conservative and doesn't go on the Youtubes. I'll just drive on by as I give him a big friendly wave. THAT guy has a video camera. He MUST be looking for a fight. I think I will accommodate him!!!"

    I absolutely understand what you're saying; protection is protection.

    I'd recommend a pen camera and stay cool, not draw attention to it, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbod'1 View Post
    I've read ALL the post herein and yet, since the Steelers lost and I'm now a bit... um... fuzzy, I'm not sure I'd present the best summation.

    I'll try later.

    See!? I said I would!

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You are free to be a Steelers fan, no need to tell me why.

    Just as I support the right to carry; I don't have to explain why.


    Go Bears!
    Pah! Bears, bleh, bleh! :P

    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    However whenever doing a legal constitutional supported activity out of the norm for the average person whom they believed is an intrusion on their safety or privacy there may be a certain level of opposition or confrontation.
    Which is why we should exercise discipline, in that, if you're expecting a fight, take a long gun; the Starbucks thing makes me see that -- was that a fight?

    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Not directed at you personally, sorry. Just expounding on the idiotic comment that protecting yourself via audio or video is now somehow "confrontational" as apposed to a prudent form of self defense. i guess the countless threads on audio/video, phone apps, and equipment here are just evidence of a bunch of radicals giving the community a bad name. Look at me crowd.(sarcasm off)

    There's two faces of the OC crowd alright.
    Like I've said, I'm pro-Police and yet, having watched many Police encounter videos of late, it's quite clear that you COULD be charged for OC'ing for some very spurious reasons...

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbod'1 View Post
    ...COULD be...
    This is a poor joke right?

    If forum members here had not been arrested repeatedly across the country while OCing we would not have multiple threads going back several years discussing audio and video recording. There would not be one post with an audio or video recording showing members here arrested for Open carrying.

    And as of yet not one any 1st Amendment chump here has explained exactly how arming one's self with an audio or video device is somehow "baiting" cops. Or being "radical". Or making a "Political statement".

    The two faces of OC. Those who promote the community and those who do not.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 09-24-2013 at 07:18 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member Turbod'1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    This is a poor joke right?

    If forum members here had not been arrested repeatedly across the country while OCing we would not have multiple threads going back several years discussing audio and video recording. There would not be one post with an audio or video recording showing members here arrested for Open carrying.

    And as of yet not one any 1st Amendment chump here has explained exactly how arming one's self with an audio or video device is somehow "baiting" cops. Or being "radical". Or making a "Political statement".

    The two faces of OC. Those who promote the community and those who do not.

    Your use of "not" disturbs me.

    Pretty sure I agreed with what you're saying and yet, you site a poor joke?

    Please expound.

  21. #21
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    You stated:

    it's quite clear that you COULD be charged for OC'ing for some very spurious reasons...
    There are multiple cases right here on this forum that illustrate "COULD" is a very poor choice of words. OCers from around the country harassed and falsely arrested are members on this very forum. Two from my forum (WI) a few weeks ago were arrested and made the news. From arrests to soliciting donations for legal council to court to settlements, there are plenty of threads on these forums illustrating not "COULD" but OCers are STILL being arrested and harassed. For NO reason.

    Might want to take a gander.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 09-24-2013 at 08:13 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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