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Thread: To carry or not to carry....(calling DTOM)

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    To carry or not to carry....(calling DTOM)

    Tomorrow my girlfriend and I plan on making a trip to submit our paperwork for our CCWs. I'm not thrilled about being required to submit the paperwork, but there are times when I need to be able to legally conceal. So the question is whether or not to open carry to the office. Being as this is a "shal issue" state, I worry that if there is any kind of negative interaction I will be barred from obtaining my CCW. On the other hand, nothing about carrying into a public building is illegal. So in a perfect world I shouldn't have any negative interaction. What are your thoughts?

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    What they will do is simply refuse to accept the paperwork if you don't comply with their silly rules.

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    From my experience at that office. They are very anti carry. I have never carried in the building because of the signs and questions as you enter. Although under law they can not prohibit OC, I think they would surely try.

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    The level of activism one decides to push is a personal decision. These decisions come with hard to predict factors and outcome.
    For me on this issue the main mission would be to get my CCW paperwork in. Pick your battles that best benefits what you want to achieve. Plenty of opportunities later to push your activism.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I am the authorized instructor that certifies that he is qualified under the state laws to receive his "shall issue" permit, so I am very interested in the situation.

    I, too, am a guy that likes to stay under the radar, and I personally would not poke the bear, regardless of how illegal the bear is being.

    That said, this is a very interesting situation. This is a "shall-issue" state. If the sheriff's office does anything to illegally interfere with his permit, I see the probability of serious repercussions from the state courts, though that may be a long process requiring the services of good lawyer$. It is state law that the sheriff's office cannot restrict you from openly carrying your firearm while conducting your lawful business in their public building. They get away with breaking this state law every day because they have a badge. Most of us choose not to pick the battle because there is no penalty clause in that particular state law and it would be a long hard fight for practically zero personal gain and lots of powerful enemies to be made.

    The sheriff's office also illegally disarms all the CCW instructors when they have their annual meeting with us. You have to be checked off a list to enter, yet you are still illegally told that you cannot be armed. Do they really distrust us? No, it is obvious that it is a simple illegal power play that they will do because no one will stop them from doing it.

    I may not be the most articulate person, but I pledge to be a free expert witness in any trial for someone who attempts to assert their rights.
    Last edited by MAC702; 09-22-2013 at 07:48 PM.
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    Re: To carry or not to carry....(calling DTOM)

    Im sorry i havent uodated you guys. The short version of the story is that I OC'd and was informed that I had to leave my gun in the car. I plan on writing a complaint/letter, but the question is who to write it to. It was suggested that I write the county commissioners. Also, in my letter I plan on citing other pubkic buildings/agencies that are in compliance with the law. These woukd include the dmv, public libraries, north las vegas police department, and nevada highway patrol. Are there any other agencies/public places that I can reference? I appreciate any help or suggestions
    Last edited by vegaspassat; 09-25-2013 at 10:53 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspassat View Post
    ...The short version of the story is that I OC'd and was informed that I had to leave my gun in the car...
    How did they know you have a car?

    What if you had walked/bussed/taxied/bicycled all across town to get this done, and they refused to conduct your lawful business? Are you required to bring along a safe to keep in the parking lot?

    That was my case a couple years ago when I went to that meeting with instructors. I was riding a motorcycle that entire day for all my errands, which included getting paid for a few jobs near the Vegas Heights neighborhood after dark. Because I wasn't going to poke the bear, and had no storage whatsoever on my motorcycle, I was disarmed for the entire afternoon and evening.

    If I had been accosted that evening, I would most certainly have won a lawsuit from LVMPD, had I survived to collect.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspassat View Post
    Im sorry i havent uodated you guys. The short version of the story is that I OC'd and was informed that I had to leave my gun in the car. I plan on writing a complaint/letter, but the question is who to write it to. It was suggested that I write the county commissioners. Also, in my letter I plan on citing other pubkic buildings/agencies that are in compliance with the law. These woukd include the dmv, public libraries, north las vegas police department, and nevada highway patrol. Are there any other agencies/public places that I can reference? I appreciate any help or suggestions
    As far as a complaint letter, the short version is nobody will care let alone do anything about it. If you want to file a complaint, file it with the Sheriffs dept as they were the offenders and copy it to the D.A. and Commissioners.

    As far as places in compliance, the DMV yes. I would doubt NLVPD has changed. Public Libraries, no, still not on board with the law that I have heard of and I have personal experience with them.. I don't think it was ever resolved with the Highway Patrol either. Be careful what you state in your letter.

    Good luck.

    TBG
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    Re: To carry or not to carry....(calling DTOM)

    In my talks with DTOM he told me that nlvpd and nhp now have signs that are in compliance

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspassat View Post
    In my talks with DTOM he told me that nlvpd and nhp now have signs that are in compliance
    That is indeed good news.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    How did they know you have a car?
    Allow me to correct myself. I was told that I couldn't be in the building with my firearm so I asked if I could just go put it in the car and come right back in.

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    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    I went into that office to renew my Gaming Card. On my way in, I politely asked the volunteer at the window to pass along to his superiors that their "No firearms" sign wasn't in compliance with state law and was unenforceable. His response was, "if you're so sure about that, you're more than welcome to violate it and see what happens." So I asked him, "are you going to pass it on to your superiors or aren't you?" His response was, "No, the only ones who have authority over us are the court's judges. No one else tells us what to do or how to do it." If I hadn't been in a bit of a hurry, I would have pushed further, but I exercised the better part of valor and chose not to fight this battle then and there.

    what effing balls this ***** had...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    I went into that office to renew my Gaming Card. On my way in, I politely asked the volunteer at the window to pass along to his superiors that their "No firearms" sign wasn't in compliance with state law and was unenforceable. His response was, "if you're so sure about that, you're more than welcome to violate it and see what happens." So I asked him, "are you going to pass it on to your superiors or aren't you?" His response was, "No, the only ones who have authority over us are the court's judges. No one else tells us what to do or how to do it." If I hadn't been in a bit of a hurry, I would have pushed further, but I exercised the better part of valor and chose not to fight this battle then and there.

    what effing balls this ***** had...
    I thought that "NO Firearms" signs had no force of law. Or does the No Firearms sign need to be as dictated by state law, certain size and wording? BTW, In Illinois now with the passing of a shall issue concealed carry law, this year, those signs are a minimum of 4"x6" in size, pretty small. And no you can't open carry here unless hunting, fishing, or trapping!

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    Re: To carry or not to carry....(calling DTOM)

    You are correct, signs here have absolutely no weight of law. Being that the office is a public building, they can only ban the concealed carry of firearms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    I went into that office to renew my Gaming Card. On my way in, I politely asked the volunteer at the window to pass along to his superiors that their "No firearms" sign wasn't in compliance with state law and was unenforceable. His response was, "if you're so sure about that, you're more than welcome to violate it and see what happens." So I asked him, "are you going to pass it on to your superiors or aren't you?" His response was, "No, the only ones who have authority over us are the court's judges. No one else tells us what to do or how to do it." If I hadn't been in a bit of a hurry, I would have pushed further, but I exercised the better part of valor and chose not to fight this battle then and there. what effing balls this ***** had...
    Your volunteer sounds like quite the smarta$$. I guess the concept of 'public service...serve the people...' do not apply in that office. on the underlined part, are they following State law or above it.
    I recently took my son for his concealed application at the local peedee and OCd doing it. I had a LEO ask where he could get a pistol like mine. Very cool. I am sorry you guys are having such a hard time in Nevada. It used to be like that here, but enough of us stood up to violations of state preemption. You guys have to fight back for what is already yours.
    Last edited by MSG Laigaie; 09-27-2013 at 02:22 PM. Reason: spelig
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspassat View Post
    In my talks with DTOM he told me that nlvpd and nhp now have signs that are in compliance
    What would a compliant sign say?

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    Re: To carry or not to carry....(calling DTOM)

    Like the one at the dmv that says the concealed carry of firearms is prohibited in accordance with the relevant nrs

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 28kfps View Post
    What would a compliant sign say?
    I once asked my wife and kids what compliant meant, and they just laughed at me???

    TBG
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by junglebob View Post
    I thought that "NO Firearms" signs had no force of law. ...
    They have force of law only when on a public building, like a police station or state office. But then, regardless of the wording of the sign, they can only apply to concealed weapons, per state law. Open carry is fully legal past those signs, except that most county and city governments violate the state preemption law with impunity. There is no penalty clause in our state for their violations.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspassat View Post
    Like the one at the dmv that says the concealed carry of firearms is prohibited in accordance with the relevant nrs
    The problem is this. The law only applies to concealed carry in those places.

    NRS 202.3673  Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.

    But, the law has a paragraph on what the sign says and the wording is "NO FIREARMS". No mention of Concealed or open carry for the wording of the sign.

    A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building, unless the permittee is not prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm while he or she is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subsection 4.

    The DMV's have gone the extra step and identified Concealed Carry is prohibited. But the other places are playing a game and hoping you aren't informed or paying attention, and that you'll just obey their sign.
    Last edited by FallonJeeper; 09-30-2013 at 06:39 PM.
    Hoka hey

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallonJeeper View Post
    The problem is this. The law only applies to concealed carry in those places.

    NRS 202.3673  Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.

    But, the law has a paragraph on what the sign says and the wording is "NO FIREARMS". No mention of Concealed or open carry for the wording of the sign.

    A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building, unless the permittee is not prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm while he or she is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subsection 4.

    The DMV's have gone the extra step and identified Concealed Carry is prohibited. But the other places are playing a game and hoping you aren't informed or paying attention, and that you'll just obey their sign.
    And if anyone is confused by the wording of the sign, reread the introduction I underlined.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallonJeeper View Post
    The problem is this. The law only applies to concealed carry in those places.

    NRS 202.3673  Permittee authorized to carry concealed firearm while on premises of public building; exceptions; penalty.

    But, the law has a paragraph on what the sign says and the wording is "NO FIREARMS". No mention of Concealed or open carry for the wording of the sign.

    A public building that has a metal detector at each public entrance or a sign posted at each public entrance indicating that no firearms are allowed in the building, unless the permittee is not prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm while he or she is on the premises of the public building pursuant to subsection 4.

    The DMV's have gone the extra step and identified Concealed Carry is prohibited. But the other places are playing a game and hoping you aren't informed or paying attention, and that you'll just obey their sign.
    If the sign says no caramel apples, juicy fruit gum, or people wearing red shirts it would still only apply to conceal carry as it is in the conceal carry section.

    This is the argument I had with the City of Henderson and it took a year and some persistence to get them on the same page.

    TBG
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    I totally agree with you guys. I was just pointing out how stupid it is, and how they want to play the word game. They won't even acknowledge the title of the NRS, they enforce the sign as posted, not the NRS.
    Hoka hey

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    Just to update, NHP did change their signs, Tim, Tiger Lilly and I have all OC'ed with no issues, (noting speedy service) Captain Thom Jackson wrote me a letter stating something to the effect of; he caught his guys passing around some literature, that was more misleading than the signs they had up prior to my "visit."

    As for north Las Vegas, When Tim and I were handing out subpenas, we ventured to north Las Vegas P.D. on Lake Mead. Upon entering I noticed the sign out front was still up, but not the one on the door. the sign out front references only handguns that are being registered. So we went in, handled business, most didn't notice some did but paid us no extra attention.

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    Re: To carry or not to carry....(calling DTOM)

    Excellent. I will get a letter written up tonight. Who all should I send it to again?

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