Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Home Invasion

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Louisville, KY, ,
    Posts
    23

    Home Invasion

    Five of us are going to a range Wednesday to practice home invasion skills, which are, from what I've been told, some of the toughest things to learn.

    In advance, we have been told to consider:

    Where is the gun?
    Is it loaded?
    Locked?
    Where is the clip?
    Where is the extra ammo?
    What distance have you been practicing at (50-foot bragging rights mean nothing at home)?
    If attacked, will your gun even work when pressed against somebody's body?
    Who's at the door?
    Is it a desperate relative or friend?
    How do you make split-second decisions?

    I think these are all good questions and I'll try to answer them after the training.

    Your insights would be appreciated in advance as well.

    Cheers,

    Don

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Olive Hill, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    186
    My gunsmith is in Louisville and I know he teaches classes, but I am not sure if this is one of his. If it is, he is a good guy.

    Regardless, I'll speak in more general terms than what you listed.

    While few things are absolute, I believe many criminal attacks, be it home invasion or personal attacks are due to a lack of being mentally aware and prepared. Some simply fail to believe that they will ever be the victim of a crime. They have zero awareness of who or what is around them as they move about. Many are way too interested in the cell phone than looking for potential predators.

    Failing to keep your eyes moving and being aware can be deadly. Not putting one's self in harms way unnecessarily can go a long way to staying safe. Learn the four color codes of awareness (white-yellow-orange-red) learn what they mean, and make them part of your life.

    Carrying a firearm is not enough, you have to also practice with it. Not just putting bullets on objects, but gun handling. Your firearm should be as familiar to you as you can possibly make it. Learn its parts and what makes your particular firearm work.

    While you say bragging rights at 50 feet are not all that important in a room is true. However, having the skill put bullets accurately on objects at distance can be a confidence builder. You can be very sloppy and still get hits on objects, depending on size, at 10 feet. You can also completely miss objects at 10 feet if you don't have a minimum skill set.

    Probably the most important thing is having a mind set that you will use deadly force if necessary. Not because you can, but because you have to. I have often told people the next to the last thing you ever want to do is to kill someone. Your life will be different from that point forward regardless of anything else. However, the last thing you want to happen is to be killed.

    I can honestly say to you that I survived situations before retirement, for the simple reason that many knew I would do what I had to do, and they did not want to take the chance of being in second place.

    Good luck to you in your class.

  3. #3
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Lexington, Ky
    Posts
    1,107
    Quote Originally Posted by dtabb View Post
    Five of us are going to a range Wednesday to practice home invasion skills, which are, from what I've been told, some of the toughest things to learn.

    In advance, we have been told to consider:

    Where is the gun?
    Is it loaded?
    Locked?
    Where is the clip?
    Where is the extra ammo?
    What distance have you been practicing at (50-foot bragging rights mean nothing at home)?
    If attacked, will your gun even work when pressed against somebody's body?
    Who's at the door?
    Is it a desperate relative or friend?
    How do you make split-second decisions?

    I think these are all good questions and I'll try to answer them after the training.

    Your insights would be appreciated in advance as well.

    Cheers,

    Don
    Unless your home-defense weapon is a Mauser K98, SKS, M1 Garand(?), etc, then don't call a magazine a 'clip'.

    You should always keep your defensive, and/or carry/EDC weapon loaded. You do not have to keep it in a gun safe. There are no laws, mandates, or precedents that require people to keep a loaded weapon in a gun safe, and common sense will tell you that a criminal will NOT wait for you to enter the code, and unlock the safe, and grab your weapon, or find the key for the trigger lock.

    Is there some component of a firearm that I'm unaware of, that will disable the weapon when pressing the muzzle against a soft target? Nevermind the fact that it's suggestive as heck of ill intent to word it that way... Makes it sound like you'd be pressing the muzzle against someone's head, and wondering if the weapon will work when you pull the trigger.

    What distance? well, you'd be damned lucky to have more than ten feet to work with if someone broke into your home. There have been cases where people only had enough time, and distance between the invader, and themselves, to grab a pistol from the nightstand, and aim, while still in bed, before the invader comes in. Distance is a key factor, but teaching someone to work with a window larger than 10 feet, is a game of death and life, with death the stronger outcome.

    Split-second decisions are a fight or flight instinct. If someone bangs on your door, and doesn't say "Hey john! Its me, Kevin, you're brother-in-law-twice removed! Your sister-in-law is having a heart attack! help! open up!" then most likely they are a foe, and treated as such. You should teach yourself, and friends, that not everything is a gray area, but not everything is black and white. If someone is a relative, or a friend, and they are trying to get into your home, they will announce themselves, and make noise. If they are banging on your door, or busting it open without saying a word, then they're a intruder.

    And, I wonder, by the wording of your starting text, Are you training to over-come an intruder, or to be the invader? "...practice home invasion skills..."

    Forgive me if I sound too critical, or harsh in my assessment of your questions, and intent.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
    Beware the Pink Camo clad gay redneck.

  4. #4
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Louisa, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,694
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Unless your home-defense weapon is a Mauser K98, SKS, M1 Garand(?), etc, then don't call a magazine a 'clip'.

    You should always keep your defensive, and/or carry/EDC weapon loaded. You do not have to keep it in a gun safe. There are no laws, mandates, or precedents that require people to keep a loaded weapon in a gun safe, and common sense will tell you that a criminal will NOT wait for you to enter the code, and unlock the safe, and grab your weapon, or find the key for the trigger lock.

    Is there some component of a firearm that I'm unaware of, that will disable the weapon when pressing the muzzle against a soft target? Nevermind the fact that it's suggestive as heck of ill intent to word it that way... Makes it sound like you'd be pressing the muzzle against someone's head, and wondering if the weapon will work when you pull the trigger.
    The M1 Garand would be a hell of a defensive weapon. You can protect your house, and your neighbors' houses.

    I agree, keep any weapon you may need to rely on loaded. There isn't much reasons not to. Kids? Teach your kids not to touch a firearm, teach them not to go into the room where you keep your firearms when they are unattended, and keep it hidden.

    A semi auto firearm may go out of battery if pressed against a soft target. If the firearm isn't in battery, it will not fire.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Philipsburg, Montana
    Posts
    3,137
    Quote Originally Posted by dtabb View Post
    1. Five of us are going to a range Wednesday to practice home invasion skills,
    2. Where is the gun?
    3. Is it loaded?
    4. Locked?
    5. Where is the clip?
    6. Where is the extra ammo?
    7. What distance have you been practicing at (50-foot bragging rights mean nothing at home)?
    If attacked, will your gun even work when pressed against somebody's body?
    8. Who's at the door? Is it a desperate relative or friend?
    9. How do you make split-second decisions?
    Gee, a lot of things to think about in an emergency.
    I have taught "home defense" classes to the spouses of troops about to be deployed. We did well in mobilization, but needed to remember we were going to be far away with only spouses(and sometimes older children) to protect the home fire.

    1. Why go to the range? The average firefight in the home is a contact of seven to ten feet, if not at the door itself. Walk your hose and make a house clearing plan for you and yours. Train by starting where you usually are in the evening and begin the "clear" process. Assign everyone in the house a task ( like calling 911) and a place to retreat to. You do not need to fire on family in an emergency.

    2. The "gun" should be on your hip in a holster. You may not have time to go anywhere else. Use it to get to your home defense weapon.

    3. Yes, it is always loaded to full magazine capacity and inserted in the weapon.

    4. No, it is on your hip, ready to go.

    5. In the weapon, ready to go. Cartridge choice comes in here. Only you know the penetration your house walls will take.

    6. This would be your choice. I keep magazines all over my house, not on my body.

    7. Walk you house and get the feel of it. Every house is different, no tactics will be the same.

    8. Windows, mirrors, comm systems. Do not open the door without being armed.

    9. Man, I cannot answer that for you. For me, the world slows down and training kicks in. The deal is, if you do not train before the assault, you will not do as well during the assault. Don't wait to figure out what you are going to do.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  6. #6
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Mid-atlantic
    Posts
    1,505
    IMO, these assessments are looking at the wrong thing, they are doing the wrong things.

    You need to assess the 'time'. Have someone barge in your unlocked door. If you have no dog, or squeaky front gate, your time gap is essentially 'zero'. Figure out ways to increase this to give you about 5 seconds, 10 if possible.

    You need to assess 'cover' (heavy furniture, bullet resistant plating in walls, safe room) and time to access cover.

    You need to have something to startle the attackers. Lights, sound, bug spray, toys in the hallway, dog(s), gated community.

    You need to practice being startled awake and reaching for your firearm. If possible, have a startle button which will turn on a light pointed at your bedroom doorway, because the first rule of 'judo' is "unbalance your opponent", or 'position before submission'. You need to turn the 'upper hand' to your favor before any deployment will work.

    FWIW. Good thread!

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    IMO, these assessments are looking at the wrong thing, they are doing the wrong things.

    You need to assess the 'time'. Have someone barge in your unlocked door. If you have no dog, or squeaky front gate, your time gap is essentially 'zero'. Figure out ways to increase this to give you about 5 seconds, 10 if possible.

    You need to assess 'cover' (heavy furniture, bullet resistant plating in walls, safe room) and time to access cover.

    You need to have something to startle the attackers. Lights, sound, bug spray, toys in the hallway, dog(s), gated community.

    You need to practice being startled awake and reaching for your firearm. If possible, have a startle button which will turn on a light pointed at your bedroom doorway, because the first rule of 'judo' is "unbalance your opponent", or 'position before submission'. You need to turn the 'upper hand' to your favor before any deployment will work.

    FWIW. Good thread!
    I agree with this and while it may be abit off topic, perhaps not. I've always firmly believed that a good dog is the first line of defense in these situations. Doesn't have to be a dobie even a terrier or something, anything that barks can give you early warning. Not to mention said dog nipping at the heels of whoever busts your door down, be it a terrier or a dobie IS a distraction and will buy you a little more time. Now, I do have the advantage of living on a farm, be that as it may I can tell you the moment someone pulls into my driveway just by how my dogs respond.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Mid-atlantic
    Posts
    1,505
    Just always remember. Time, distance and cover.

    So someone has time to arm, they get their shotgun, often a single or double-barrel single shot, then they (stupidly) go outside. This violates the distance and cover rule. But it's hard not to go out and look. Guess what? We now have cheap remote cameras and motion sensor lights. Even middle class folk can afford them and just use their computers. But people don't do it until AFTER they've been burglarized or invaded, mostly. You'd think BGs would be more circumspect - 'hey people have cell phones and guns and dogs and stuff, maybe we should stay in school?'. But there's a new breed of home invaders, the crack addicts, who don't give a cr&p. Consider you won't be facing the gentleman cat burglar anymore.

    You can be armed to the teeth, but if you have the headphones on and are not paying attention and the front door goes in 2 seconds, then you have zero time. So don't focus on the arms. Your only backup here is 'cover'. Heavy furniture or finding a saferoom bullet resistant plate at a junkyard (for example) will suffice. Even being obscured from view is better than nothing.

    When cops are attacked they often go right for their gun. What does that mean? They are fighting off the BG with one arm. You need space and time and THEN you can deploy. So work on those first. Practice at least once so you can correct obvious flaws.

    FWIW.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 09-25-2013 at 07:36 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •