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Thread: Walmart bans all guns ?

  1. #1
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    Walmart bans all guns ?

    I was at the Holland Wal-mart and asked about open carry in the store. The manager said anyone with a gun, CPL or not will be escorted out of the store to their car to watch them lock it in the trunk, before they can go back in. I will never go there again.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    I suggest you call the Corporate headquarters (1-800-walmart)and report the manager. Walmart policy is to follow state laws.
    Last edited by Ezerharden; 09-24-2013 at 03:13 PM.
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    Yup, I know. It just shows the ignorance of the sheeple here. A tough guy manager with a God complex.

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    deleted.
    Last edited by casper; 09-24-2013 at 05:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Do not ask! never ask!

    just OC!

    what the heck, do you ask the manager if you can wear your rain jacket to the store too?
    Under Michigan law (MCL 750.234d), possession of firearms are prohibited on the premises of establishments licensed to sell alcohol. However, there is a provision under this law which exempts LEO's, CPL holders, and folks with permission from the owner or agents of the owner.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(oea...e=mcl-750-234d

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    Under Michigan law (MCL 750.234d), possession of firearms are prohibited on the premises of establishments licensed to sell alcohol. However, there is a provision under this law which exempts LEO's, CPL holders, and folks with permission from the owner or agents of the owner.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(oea...e=mcl-750-234d
    Ah, ok.

    Well that's a stupid law.....

    Then I apologize, I like to be strong on the concept of dont ask for permission to do what's legal to make a point, but looking at the law secution I see it now,

    I apologize and deleted the post
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 09-24-2013 at 05:08 PM.
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    I noticed that it said you can carry with permission from the owners. Since Walmart says that it follows the laws of the city and States wouldn't that mean you have permission to carry? Just my two cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7om5hipp View Post
    I noticed that it said you can carry with permission from the owners. Since Walmart says that it follows the laws of the city and States wouldn't that mean you have permission to carry? Just my two cents.
    The implied consent, in this regard, is not that cut and dried, IMO. Personally, If I were a non-CPL holder I wouldn't chance 90 days in jail and/or a $100 fine for violation of that section.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    I have been to this Walmart OCing, should visit again.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

  10. #10
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    Under Michigan law (MCL 750.234d), possession of firearms are prohibited on the premises of establishments licensed to sell alcohol. However, there is a provision under this law which exempts LEO's, CPL holders, and folks with permission from the owner or agents of the owner.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(oea...e=mcl-750-234d
    I doubt any Walmart manager would allow someone without a CPL to carry in the store unless it was a personal friend.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    I shop 2-3 times a week at Walmart here in Clinton Township. Most always OCing and have never really had a problem from management.
    "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal."

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Well-ll-ll I was in Sanford Walmart for almost two hours today OCing, not one word was said, or even a eye batted. Apparently it is not company wide.
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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I've definitely found that asking can lead to being told things that aren't true. Bob Evans in Big Rapids told me we couldn't hold an OC lunch their because they had a "no weapons" policy. Well actually they said we could have the lunch, but we'd need to keep the guns in our cars (I LOL'd). However, we have had at least two people that I'm aware of (probably more) open carry there without issue.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    This subject comes up often and has changed over the last couple of years. Some people have issues in the stores, others do not.
    Just about two years ago, I contacted Walmart corporate and received two separate emails. Unfortunately I don't have the emails anymore. Lost some data transfer to the new computer.
    The first from the eastern district manager and the second from the legal office. Both said the same basic thing so I am assuming this was the result of a board discussion on the issue of OC.

    The following is a paraphrase content of the two emails:
    "With the increasing requests of Walmart's policy concerning firearms in our stores we have stated repeatedly that we follow state law within the state the store in question is located.
    We have also found that the reaction to such presence of firearms seems to be mostly due to acceptance by demographic location.
    Therefore we have decided to leave it up to the store managers discretion whether to allow firearms in their store or not, according to the state laws."

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    Never, ever ask.

    What are most people going to think or say upon answering the call or servicing you at the front desk? They might not even know they can ask you to leave, but by your asking, one could infer that they now have that option. They aren't going to be the one to start a "Starbucks thing" at their work. They are probably going to be thinking about liability, that they themselves might be sued. They will usually invent some policy or law on the spot. They might even make a diagnosis of your mental state for you at no cost. Any of these, or a hundred other thoughts will come to mind. Even gun stores have been known to ban open carry.

    What they are not thinking, is helping you with your open carry activism.
    He's simply stating the law. If you do not have a CPL and wish to carry in say a grocery store with a liquor license you need to get permission. I'm told Yancer does this for places he wishes to carry in, but can't because of the law that was mentioned above. The hypotheticals are simply that, hypotheticals. There are plenty of things that could happen if you ask permission, but heck there are plenty of things that could happen if you open carry. You could be shot for your gun, have someone try to take it away, have the police called, scare innocent children, etc. I agree that one should not ask if they can legally carry somewhere, but if the law requires permission then they definitely should get it if they wish to carry there.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    I just see getting more "NO's" that "Yes's" by asking. It's going to come down to who is asking, who is asked, and how it's asked.
    True, but if you ask, and get 95% "no"'s, you can carry in 5% of those locations
    If you don't ask, you can't get permission, and therefore you can carry in 0% of those locations.

    Obviously I'm only referring to those locations that are subject to the above cited law where permission is required. I have never, to the best of my memory, asked anyone for permission, but I can understand why a person would in this case.

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    Regular Member Glock214's Avatar
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    I just open carried at this exact location early this morning, not even a single look. I even asked for help locating an item and the associate was very helpful. I was dressed up in a suit though. But have carried there in jeans and a shirt before.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggs View Post
    I doubt any Walmart manager would allow someone without a CPL to carry in the store unless it was a personal friend.
    They do it in Virginia every day.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    They do it in Virginia every day.
    well in Michigan you need specific permission to carry in a liqour licensed establishment unless you have a CPL, then you may carry openly in such a place without specific permission. apparently the grocery store qualfiies as a "liqour licensed establishment" because they sell beer/wine

    so what he means is, will a manager give that specific permission to someone to carry in the store without a license....? probably not. having to approve something is much different then simply allowing it to happen.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  20. #20
    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    well in Michigan you need specific permission to carry in a liqour licensed establishment unless you have a CPL, then you may carry openly in such a place without specific permission. apparently the grocery store qualfiies as a "liqour licensed establishment" because they sell beer/wine

    so what he means is, will a manager give that specific permission to someone to carry in the store without a license....? probably not. having to approve something is much different then simply allowing it to happen.
    I think he was just teasing us Michiganders.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    750.234d
    ...
    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
    ...
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    ...
    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    Or casper get a license from another state (if you think you have a good lawyer) and you don't need to ask.
    The news media plays politics more than the politicians do.

  22. #22
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Walmart bans all guns ?

    MI law does NOT recognize non-resident permit issued by other states. He could get an AZ permit in the mail. Still wouldn't do him any good in MI. Only he can fight this - it's his choice. The good news is: he can still open carry in a lot of places, so he's not completely screwed. His Gun Board seems to be sticking to their guns (pun intended) so they must think they have some reason that will stand up to review by the courts, or their just dicks and don't care if they have to pay (with our tax dollars) for wrongfully denying him.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    MI law does NOT recognize non-resident permit issued by other states. He could get an AZ permit in the mail. Still wouldn't do him any good in MI. Only he can fight this - it's his choice. The good news is: he can still open carry in a lot of places, so he's not completely screwed. His Gun Board seems to be sticking to their guns (pun intended) so they must think they have some reason that will stand up to review by the courts, or their just dicks and don't care if they have to pay (with our tax dollars) for wrongfully denying him.
    Understood but we have argued in the past that an out of state license could be used to OC in places like wallmart.
    I'm not seriously suggesting it but it might be good fallback if he accidentally goes to a place with a liquor license.
    The news media plays politics more than the politicians do.

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    I have not reapplied or appealed since getting denied Aug 2 2012.

  25. #25
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Re: Walmart bans all guns ?

    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    Does 750.234d not say as follows : (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    Would that not allow an out of stater to carry lawfully? If not, why not?
    Well sure it should, however MI LEA's / DA's may not agree. This subject has been raised here many times over the last few years, and the MI lawyers who participate and other very knowledgable OCers seem to agree a non-resident permit from another state held by a MI resident who does not also hold a valid MI permit will lead to legal troubles. Honestly do you really think the powers in charge of the permission slip program in MI would let their racket be side-stepped so easily? We are talking about a multi-million dollar revenue stream for them.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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