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Thread: Return of Property - Denied ~~~ any recourse?

  1. #1
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    Question Return of Property - Denied ~~~ any recourse?

    Hello everyone,

    Hoping for your help, long time lurker, first time poster. In June of 2012, someone called the philadelphia police on me as they saw me unloading my firearms from the range. My house was raided and my firearms were confiscated. I filed a motion for return of property awhile ago and finally had my hearing today in common pleas court, I had to jump through a lot of hoops but I finally got it,, however; but the judge denied to give me my firearms back. She did not site a reason and when I protested and asked why, she threatened to hold me into contempt of court for calling into question her decision. I've done research into the judge (Paula A. Patrick) and it seems she does not like to follow the law and has had her rulings over-turned many times. http://articles.philly.com/2010-12-1...n-crimes-tec-9 ' A Gun Court judge's rulings have forced dismissal of dozens of cases. '

    My question: Do I have any recourse? I was told I could file an appeal, or a motion to vacate, but I cannot find either forms online and the clerks on the 2nd floor motions counter at the criminal justice center & city hall said they have not heard of appealing a return of property denial. Anyone in a similar situation? Any ideas? Hiring an attorney would cost more than the firearms, so I have been going pro-se ... please advise if you can; I'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you all!

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    There are no "forms" for an appeal .. you write the instrument yourself.

    Given what you have stated, I don't think you should appeal as it would be a waste of your resources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    There are no "forms" for an appeal .. you write the instrument yourself.

    Given what you have stated, I don't think you should appeal as it would be a waste of your resources.
    I'm not going to let this corrupt and law-breaking judge get away scott free. I've already filed numerous complaints; but I want justice.

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    As odd as this sounds, I have been debating calling the police to report theft of property on the Philadelphia police, seeing as how they are illegally holding my property and refusing to return it.

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    how to proceed

    I'm not a lawyer and am not writing from personal experience. I am writing from a layman's common sense.

    You absolutely must have an attorney if you are accusing a judge of misconduct or appealing a judge's ruling where the judge ignored or violated the law.

    The jails a full of criminals that file many motions, complaints, and accusations against the system. The system doesn't punish them very severely because the criminals usually have no assets to pay fines and are already in the slammer - where would it put them? If you file something that looks or sounds like a 'jailbird' complaint and are not in jail, the authorities might try to put you there for false filing or false swearing or something. Your complaint is swimming upstream amidst a flood of complaints filed by 'jail-bird litigants'. You become the one that they CAN punish (because you have assets and are not in the slammer). Do not file a theft report with the police against the police or against the court system. This will be seen as another 'jail bird litigant' gumming up the system. You will give the police a reason to try very hard to find a way to charge you with something. Dealing with this sort of thing requires good advise and help from a good lawyer.

    Most states have a "Judicial Conduct Commission" or something of that sort. An attorney can help you write a complaint to which they might pay attention. An attorney can help you file a appeal of a wrongful ruling.

    You must find the right lawyer. There are lots of lawyers that mostly defend very guilty bozos and help them - for a fee - gum up the system with complaints. If you hire one of those lawyers, you will take on the tarnish of all the unmeritorious complaints that the shyster has helped criminals file in the past few years. You need to find a lawyer that defends the innocent. Most lawyers - even the good ones - defend the guilty and the system knows it. You need a lawyer that the judges know and respect. Not one they fear, or hate, but one they respect. It might not be easy to find this person, but finding the wrong sort of lawyer will be a disaster.

    I wish I could help you, but I have no knowledge that pertains to this state. Even in the best of circumstances, these things take a long time and a lot of money.
    Last edited by liberty404; 09-24-2013 at 07:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MystiKasT View Post
    I'm not going to let this corrupt and law-breaking judge get away scott free. I've already filed numerous complaints; but I want justice.
    Indeed you do not have to just let the judge walk away.

    Vote her out of officer, object to her nominating petitions ...

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    Suggest that the OP contact the leadership of the Pennsylvania Firearms Owners Association ASAP and get a consultation with an attorney of their recommendation.

    http://www.pafoa.org/

    If your case is as presented and deemed worthy, there are those that will gladly help with expenses.
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    Thank you for your advice guys. I got in touch with the philadelphia inquirer and they should hopefully be posting an article about my situation soon.

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    Did I miss something here?

    why were your guns confiscated? Were you charged with something? Do you have pending charges for something else?
    Were you in lawful possession of those guns/

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    Did I miss something here?

    why were your guns confiscated? Were you charged with something? Do you have pending charges for something else?
    Were you in lawful possession of those guns/

    Yes, you missed the fact that Philadelphia is heavily corrupt.

    My firearms were confiscated because someone saw me returning with them from the firing range. I was charged with carrying a firearm without a lice and illegal possession of an automatic weapon (the philly PD thought my Romanian wasr-10 was automatic and illegal). All charges were thrown out and the case was expunged\. Of course I was in legal and lawful possession of the firearms.

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    Wow what a croc of @##%
    Corruption is an understatement. Hope you get this resolved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MystiKasT View Post
    Yes, you missed the fact that Philadelphia is heavily corrupt.

    My firearms were confiscated because someone saw me returning with them from the firing range. I was charged with carrying a firearm without a lice and illegal possession of an automatic weapon (the philly PD thought my Romanian wasr-10 was automatic and illegal). All charges were thrown out and the case was expunged\. Of course I was in legal and lawful possession of the firearms.
    Interesting ... its a heads up to us here of the excuses cops will give to steal our arms. As I have said before, the 2nd amendment means nothing if they can just walk up and take our arms. Which is exactly what they did here - they had no evidence that the gun was fully auto at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Interesting ... its a heads up to us here of the excuses cops will give to steal our arms. As I have said before, the 2nd amendment means nothing if they can just walk up and take our arms. Which is exactly what they did here - they had no evidence that the gun was fully auto at all.
    The odd thing is, they honestly believed the AK-47 was full-auto. They saw it and were petrified and started freaking out. They said I could of 'killed them all' and 'shouldn't have a weapon like that' and they were joking that they arrested a 'terrorist'. They also honestly believed the AK was illegal to own even when they foundout it was semi-auto. Really very sad.

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    If you end up getting a lawyer, I'd be willing to pitch in a few bucks to see this judge put in her place.

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    Can you say.

    USC 42 section 1983.

    OP

    Speak with a Constitutional law attorney. Your rights have been violated and your property was stolen by a branch of the Government.

    The idiot judge may have immunity however the philly PD does not.

    My .02

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    There is likely a time limit on your right to appeal the judge's decision. I hope it has not passed. Usually 20-30days.

    In most states you file what is called a "notice of appeal" or "notice of intent to appeal" or sometimes a "motion for permission to file an appeal"...this has to be done FAST FAST FAST after the judge's decision is issued.

    This usually leads to a series of other deadlines by which you have to file/serve your actual appeal papers which set forth the legal authorities for your appeal, the standard of review which the appeals court must apply in analyzing your case, etc. In some places, the other side (the police) may challenge you if it's a "motion for leave" rather than an appeal "as of right." Then you'll be fighting for the opportunity to even bring your appeal...after which, if you prevail, you'll be permitted to file your appeal papers.

    And people say lawyers are useless...go get one...or sit back and take it. Obviously, money matters and you have to decide what this is worth.

    Keep in mind that winning may help others in a similar predicament or may stop the practice of unlawful confiscation...so it could still be worth fighting them. my guess is that they sized you up, saw you were pro-se, and decided you had to pay one way or another for your rights...by hiring a lawyer. it's strange, most judges LIKE pro-se parties and do their best to make sure they don't get steamrolled by actual lawyers on the other side. it appears that this particular judge knew that you'd end up needing a lawyer when you ran out of your own personal talent/knowledge...which got you pretty far and you should be happy about. for this next step, unless you want to read up on how the appeals process goes, you'd better call a pro.

    does PA have a "pro-se office" or "pro-se clerk" who can help you get things together for your appeal? a lot of states have pro-se guides that you can find online and that will allow you to bone up on how to navigate the courts on your own. try it.
    Last edited by CT Barfly; 10-08-2013 at 10:43 AM.

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