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Thread: Open Carrying and asked to Leave

  1. #1
    Regular Member DLeeHarley's Avatar
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    Open Carrying and asked to Leave

    My wife and I are getting ready for a vacation and went to our bank (Wells Fargo) to deposit about $90 worth of coins. I'm open carrying like I always do. They've never had a problem with it in over 5yrs. They don't have a coin counter so we had to sit there and roll all of it up. They were very pleasant and talkitive while we counted and rolled everything up. It took about 45minutes. Then we went to a grocery store. My son's bank (Chase) is inside said store. We were dealing with an associate and after about 15 minutes the manager comes up to me (very polite) and says they don't allow open carry in their bank. I said no problem at all, and proceed to cover it up. Then he tells me they don't allow concealed carry either. I told him if I were CC'ing he wouldn't have known. He then says it's because banks are concidered Federal Bldg's. I said no there not, the closest they are to ANYTHING federal is their accounts are federally insured! He's taken back a little. I say there's no problem sir as I will leave but oh by the way you need to put up signage that states no weapons at your entrances. Then he's surprised to hear that if he had called the PD on me that the only thing that would have resulted is if I insisted on staying, that I would be cited for a misdemeanor trespassing ticket. I told him it's all in Idaho Statutes Title 18 Chapter #33. He looks at me like "What the Hell, are you a fat, old attorney?" LOL So now we have audience, so I take advantage of it. I tell him a little louder that there was a reason Wells Fargo had a shotgun on the stagecoach, and then later an armed guard inside their banks. That's because the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to have a good guy with a gun. He said "I don't believe that“, so I said if a bank robber was walking into his branch and saw my weapon that he'd probably just turn around and leave. He kind of agreed. He said thank you for being so nice about it and I said no problem at all and that I'd even help him out. He was puzzled so I said I would MAKE SURE to let ALL my gun owning friends and supporters know of your policies and that after they closed their accounts, there wouldn't be ANY more problems. He said he was sure it wouldn't come to that, then my son stepped up to him and requested that the teller right next us CLOSE his account. The timing was SO perfect, it was like it was a script! It felt good and most of the tellers gave us a thumbs up as we left. Later All,

    Dennis
    "Those who talk, Don't Do. Those who do, Don't Talk."

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLeeHarley View Post
    ... I say ... you need to put up signage that states no weapons at your entrances. ...
    Everyone handles it differently, and it seems like you had some good results at the end.

    But, please do not mention signs. They carry no legal weight in many states (like Idaho) so we should not be conditioning ourselves to look for signage nor conditioning stores that we should be noticing signs.

    Of course, if one happens to notice that a place has a "no guns" sign or policy, one can choose to patronize or not, and tell them why not if so. But we should not be conditionalized to look for signs nor presenting that as a legitimate option to businesses.
    Last edited by MAC702; 09-25-2013 at 08:52 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLeeHarley View Post
    My wife and I are getting ready for a vacation and went to our bank (Wells Fargo) to deposit about $90 worth of coins. I'm open carrying like I always do. They've never had a problem with it in over 5yrs. They don't have a coin counter so we had to sit there and roll all of it up. They were very pleasant and talkitive while we counted and rolled everything up. It took about 45minutes. Then we went to a grocery store. My son's bank (Chase) is inside said store. We were dealing with an associate and after about 15 minutes the manager comes up to me (very polite) and says they don't allow open carry in their bank. I said no problem at all, and proceed to cover it up. Then he tells me they don't allow concealed carry either. I told him if I were CC'ing he wouldn't have known. He then says it's because banks are concidered Federal Bldg's. I said no there not, the closest they are to ANYTHING federal is their accounts are federally insured! He's taken back a little. I say there's no problem sir as I will leave but oh by the way you need to put up signage that states no weapons at your entrances. Then he's surprised to hear that if he had called the PD on me that the only thing that would have resulted is if I insisted on staying, that I would be cited for a misdemeanor trespassing ticket. I told him it's all in Idaho Statutes Title 18 Chapter #33. He looks at me like "What the Hell, are you a fat, old attorney?" LOL So now we have audience, so I take advantage of it. I tell him a little louder that there was a reason Wells Fargo had a shotgun on the stagecoach, and then later an armed guard inside their banks. That's because the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to have a good guy with a gun. He said "I don't believe that“, so I said if a bank robber was walking into his branch and saw my weapon that he'd probably just turn around and leave. He kind of agreed. He said thank you for being so nice about it and I said no problem at all and that I'd even help him out. He was puzzled so I said I would MAKE SURE to let ALL my gun owning friends and supporters know of your policies and that after they closed their accounts, there wouldn't be ANY more problems. He said he was sure it wouldn't come to that, then my son stepped up to him and requested that the teller right next us CLOSE his account. The timing was SO perfect, it was like it was a script! It felt good and most of the tellers gave us a thumbs up as we left. Later All,

    Dennis
    "Those who talk, Don't Do. Those who do, Don't Talk."
    I most defiantly wouldn't have mention signs, that being said I would have left then returned and asked him for a copy of the written bank policy, I would have also brought back copies of the state laws, copies of what a "bank" is and how it "isn't" a federal building. More education as he is probably an ignorant california transplant. (Yes california isn't capitalized as they lost it along with the Freedom and Liberty's).

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    I've read that it costs a typical bank about $300+ bucks to start a new customer, in terms of labor, printing costs and stuff, so it's definitely a loss to them. Of course they get that back fairly quickly from using your money, fees and fines.

    Point is, getting a couple people to close their accounts due to the anti-firearm bias a bank has does have no small effect...well, I mean it's small for JP Morgan, who manages to hold up their clients without firearms, but you know what I mean.

    Good for you, (except for the 'signs' part).

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    That lie won't die!

    [QUOTE=DLeeHarley;1988630]My son's bank (Chase) is inside said store. We were dealing with an associate and after about 15 minutes the manager comes up to me (very polite) and says they don't allow open carry in their bank. I said no problem at all, and proceed to cover it up. Then he tells me they don't allow concealed carry either. He then says it's because banks are concidered Federal Bldg's.[/QUOTE



    ^^That^^ is in its own way one of the most persistent, pervasive anti-gun myths out there, it seems. I have heard bank employees from custodians to dang-near-the-CEO regurgitate that "It's a federal law that you can't carry a gun into a bank" horsepucky. Since the era of the internet, gunrights people from the rest of the U.S. report the same thing.

    I'd like to know how it got started.

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    Regular Member MontanaResident's Avatar
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    Great story. Where in Idaho?

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    Now you had a complete idiot in your hands ... I would have said, "you know just last week Bank of America just lost 5 mil in a case where a manager tossed out a guy carrying because its a civil right" ... you familiar with that one? You want your bank to be next?"

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    I carry in my Wells, and Chase bank with no issue (WA). Holophobe managers just make stuff up on the fly.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Now you had a complete idiot in your hands ... I would have said, "you know just last week Bank of America just lost 5 mil in a case where a manager tossed out a guy carrying because its a civil right" ... you familiar with that one? You want your bank to be next?"
    Cite? Or is this just another bloviation?

  10. #10
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    ^^bloviation^^

    Nice call.

    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Everyone handles it differently, and it seems like you had some good results at the end.

    But, please do not mention signs. They carry no legal weight in many states (like Idaho) so we should not be conditioning ourselves to look for signage nor conditioning stores that we should be noticing signs.

    Of course, if one happens to notice that a place has a "no guns" sign or policy, one can choose to patronize or not, and tell them why not if so. But we should not be conditionalized to look for signs nor presenting that as a legitimate option to businesses.
    I always look for signage, out of respect for the property owner and his property rights.....but this is just me. No sign, no issue.....until the property owner makes it a issue. I then respect his property rights and depart the property not to return.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ...I always look for signage, out of respect for the property owner and his property rights...
    If I stopped at every entrance to read all the signs, I wouldn't have enough time to get my business taken care of.

    But like I said, if I notice a sign, I'll give it due respect.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    A satellite location in a grocery store is subject to the grocery chain's on premises policies.

    Now if Chase corporate policy provides that he can refuse BANK service to an armed customer - yep - close out the account.

    This is a similar situation to the U.S. Postal Service contract stations in retail locations.

    Chase Bank has had a history of being anti-2A - don't know whether that issue has been remedied or not.

    Should have asked the Chase manager - when was the last time he heard about a bank robber presenting with a displayed holstered weapon ?
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 10-02-2013 at 10:24 AM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    If I stopped at every entrance to read all the signs, I wouldn't have enough time to get my business taken care of.

    But like I said, if I notice a sign, I'll give it due respect.
    Same here. A quick glance should be enough to reveal a properly placed, compliant sign. Besides, I've only accidentally entered a posted building once (that I am aware of). It was a Pro's Ranch Market (they have/had some great spicy shrimp, BTW) and I OCed without a problem. Funny thing is, as soon as I walked out, I noticed the sign on the automated door that had been previously obscured by a tall woman when I entered. Had the woman not been there, it would have been in plain view, just below eye level.
    I considered returning what I had bought, but it really was an accident, the amount was less than $20, and none of the workers (~4-5) that saw my OC piece said anything or began acting strangely. I believe I spent a total of 35 minutes in the store, so maybe the gunbuster signs were put up only because of corporate policy? Not saying I will return (even though I still really miss that shrimp), but anti-gun policies may not have as much support at the floor level.

    To the OP (DLeeHarley): While I find it great that you were able to shake this man's indoctrinated though process, please do not suggest gunbuster signs be put up, or call ahead to ask about firearm policy (encourages them to make a policy). I understand your intentions were good, and probably based on your desire to respect their property rights, but it usually doesn't lead to an anti "seeing the light", just another anti gun corporate policy that the next ignoramus in management position will spout off to future OCers.

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    [QUOTE=Brian D.;1989361]
    Quote Originally Posted by DLeeHarley View Post
    My son's bank (Chase) is inside said store. We were dealing with an associate and after about 15 minutes the manager comes up to me (very polite) and says they don't allow open carry in their bank. I said no problem at all, and proceed to cover it up. Then he tells me they don't allow concealed carry either. He then says it's because banks are concidered Federal Bldg's.[/QUOTE



    ^^That^^ is in its own way one of the most persistent, pervasive anti-gun myths out there, it seems. I have heard bank employees from custodians to dang-near-the-CEO regurgitate that "It's a federal law that you can't carry a gun into a bank" horsepucky. Since the era of the internet, gunrights people from the rest of the U.S. report the same thing.

    I'd like to know how it got started.
    I would have said "well, you let me in -- so clearly you do allow open carry"

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    Regular Member MontanaResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    If I stopped at every entrance to read all the signs, I wouldn't have enough time to get my business taken care of.

    But like I said, if I notice a sign, I'll give it due respect.


    I wasn't carrying, but I stopped to read the gun-carry sign in Sportsmans Warehouse in Missoula. It was long, took several minutes, which got me a bit confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ^^bloviation^^

    Nice call.

    I always look for signage, out of respect for the property owner and his property rights.....but this is just me. No sign, no issue.....until the property owner makes it a issue. I then respect his property rights and depart the property not to return.
    Same with me. I always suggest a sign since it clarifies matters.

    Signs have a purpose whether they tell you what credit cards are taken, open hours or delivery policies. If they don't want my business, I appreciate them letting me know BEFORE I spend my money in there. I had a similar situation where US Bank Manager in meridian just made up policies. When the Home Office Customer Service people called to ask why I closed my business and payroll accounts they were surprised to hear my story and assured me there is no such corporate policy. I just told them they ought to train their managers better since even their tellers apologized to me for his behavior.

    Wells Fargo in Meridian has always been top-notch and business as usual with me.
    Last edited by ecocks; 10-07-2013 at 12:45 AM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member IdahoOpenCarry's Avatar
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    Getting the word out on the bank you were in.

    Dennis,
    If you are on Facebook, you should post your story on our page. We have a member who is mapping out the unfriendly businesses like your bank. You can find our group by going to our website at IdahoCarry.org and click on the Facebook link and request to join. I'll approve you and you can repost this story.

    Tony Snesko, Founder
    Idaho Carry, Open & Concealed
    Tony@IdahoCarry.org

  18. #18
    Regular Member DLeeHarley's Avatar
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    As for it being a satellite bank in another store, the Fred Meyer's that it's in is very gun friendly and I have carried in their store for almost 14yrs. The bank is in Nampa, Idaho.

    Dennis in Idaho
    "Those who talk, don't do. Those who do, don't Talk!"

  19. #19
    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    If I was planning on holding up a bank I doubt I'd have the gun in an OC holster. In fact I doubt the gun itself would be in a holsters. And I wouldn't be cashing coins in, either.
    Lifetime member, Gun Owners of America (http://gunowners.org/)
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    Registering gun owners to prevent crime, is like registering Jews to prevent a HOLOCAUST.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DLeeHarley View Post
    As for it being a satellite bank in another store, the Fred Meyer's that it's in is very gun friendly and I have carried in their store for almost 14yrs. The bank is in Nampa, Idaho.

    Dennis in Idaho
    "Those who talk, don't do. Those who do, don't Talk!"
    Somehow I just knew this was the location. I do go to that Fred Meyer but not to the bank inside. Now I know not to use them.

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