justified use of self defense ?

stealthyeliminator · Sep 27, 2013

JustJack said:
I neither agree, nor disagree with anyone's comments up to this point. Everyone has, and is entitled to, their own opinion. However, I have to ask myself, if the aggressive gentleman had NOT been a uniformed police officer, and simply been a larger, aggressive man, with an openly carried firearm, would any of your opinions change?

I think that my opinion has changed, after reading some of the comments here and thinking about it some more.

I still might think that I might be in the wrong to use lethal force in that situation because I personally probably wouldn't believe that the cop would actually try to break my face. I would likely think he's just blowing smoke and being a jerk. At the most, I'd imagine he might try to cite or arrest me, and in either of those cases I'd have a hard time defending any use of force, even if it was proven to be a false cite or arrest.

However, I can't say that a perfectly reasonable person wouldn't feel as though their life was legitimately in danger in that situation, and so if I were on a jury voting on a murder charge against the camera bearer and this video were the only evidence, I too would have to find not guilty.

Brian D. · Sep 27, 2013

I didn't bother to figure out where this took place. Doesn't really matter though--this officer needs to start getting filmed a bunch more, whenever he's out in public places on duty. One complaint on such an incident likely won't get him more than an oral reprimand. He continues to do this, on tape, different story.

eye95 · Sep 27, 2013

JamesCanby said:
First, you were dishonest in your original characterization. It wasn't just "a man carrying a gun." It was an on-duty police officer in uniform -- of course he had a gun. The officer's conduct was wrong on several counts and a complaint should be filed, but other than using "fighting words," the officer did not touch you. From the video it is evident that there were several other officers around and had you drawn your firearm "in self defense" I suspect the last thing your camera would have recorded was your death. Admit it -- you were there to bait the officer into this reaction, and he fell for it. Now you come here and present a false scenario, aided and abetted by "the usual cop-bashing suspects," one of which even posted that if he were a juror at your trial he would vote to acquit. Unfortunately, he would never get the chance to acquit because you would have become deceased moments after drawing your firearm.

Excellent analysis.

eye95 · Sep 27, 2013

JamesCanby said:
You're ignoring the fact that there would be no trial. Shoot a cop and the only call would be to the coroner to pick up your remains. Get real, keyboard commando.

Emphasis mine.

Astute observation.

eye95 · Sep 27, 2013

Brian D. said:
I didn't bother to figure out where this took place. Doesn't really matter though--this officer needs to start getting filmed a bunch more, whenever he's out in public places on duty. One complaint on such an incident likely won't get him more than an oral reprimand. He continues to do this, on tape, different story.

Filming him is the way to go.

onus · Sep 28, 2013

Last year in America police killed 530 people. Studies show about 45% of the people killed were unarmed. In the city I recently moved from there have been 4 shootings by police this week. 3 of the victims were unarmed.

Police officers are regularly telling citizens that their cameras look like weapons.

eye95 · Sep 28, 2013

"Studies show..."? What studies? Cite?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

davidmcbeth · Sep 28, 2013

eye95 said:
"Studies show..."? What studies? Cite?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ard0309st.pdf

some info on deaths ...

eye95 · Sep 29, 2013

As usual, your post is less than useless. The question was posted to the person who posted the stat to be supported. Your reply does not support that stat, and frankly, coming from the site blusterer and BSer, is unsurprisingly unhelpful.

Moving on until the person who posted the stat mans up and supports it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

OC for ME · Sep 30, 2013

47 seconds of video does not provide enough information to be able to conclude that the citizen was "baiting" that cop or any cop for that matter. There is very little information other than the fact that a cop communicated a threat, while on duty, because he witnessed lawful activity. The disclaimer of "not as a cop but as a private citizen" does not mitigate the unlawfulness of the threat communicated.

I am not certain that the OP is the citizen filming the encounter.

sudden valley gunner · Sep 30, 2013

OC for ME said:
47 seconds of video does not provide enough information to be able to conclude that the citizen was "baiting" that cop or any cop for that matter. There is very little information other than the fact that a cop communicated a threat, while on duty, because he witnessed lawful activity. The disclaimer of "not as a cop but as a private citizen" does not mitigate the unlawfulness of the threat communicated.

I am not certain that the OP is the citizen filming the encounter.

+1

JamesCanby · Sep 30, 2013

sudden valley gunner said:
+1

Watch the video again. Every frame contains video of police officers. The person making the video specifically focused on police officers and, IMHO, was hoping to create this confrontation. Unfortunately, the last police officer fell into his trap, which he then uses to decry harassment by "a man with a gun," certainly a "headline" that was engineered to be misleading.

OC for ME · Sep 30, 2013

JamesCanby said:
Watch the video again. Every frame contains video of police officers. The person making the video specifically focused on police officers and, IMHO, was hoping to create this confrontation. Unfortunately, the last police officer fell into his trap, which he then uses to decry harassment by "a man with a gun," certainly a "headline" that was engineered to be misleading.

An inference without facts to support it. You claim a desired outcome based only on the observed outcome. That is intellectual dishonesty.

davidmcbeth · Sep 30, 2013

Baiting is fine. Entrapment is not. Two separate ideas.

Cops bait people all-the-time.

So I don't think it matters if the guy was baiting the cops or not..

WalkingWolf · Sep 30, 2013

A honest intelligent person cannot be baited. That leaves idiots and crooks.

onus · Sep 30, 2013

JamesCanby said:
Watch the video again. Every frame contains video of police officers. The person making the video specifically focused on police officers and, IMHO, was hoping to create this confrontation. Unfortunately, the last police officer fell into his trap, which he then uses to decry harassment by "a man with a gun," certainly a "headline" that was engineered to be misleading.

filming police officers isn't baiting them.

police have thousands of video cameras around the city. are the police baiting citizens ?

if it was that easy then men would all go out and film women on the street and women would flock to the men and jump on top of them and throw handcuffs on them.

OC for ME · Sep 30, 2013

"Attempt to withdraw" is not a element in all jurisdictions....."castle doctrine" if you will, and "stand your ground" in certain situations/jurisdictions.

eye95 · Sep 30, 2013

OC for ME said:
"Attempt to withdraw" is not a element in all jurisdictions....."castle doctrine" if you will, and "stand your ground" in certain situations/jurisdictions.

Attempting to withdraw should be at the discretion of the person defending himself and no one else.

TechnoWeenie · Sep 30, 2013

JamesCanby said:
You're ignoring the fact that there would be no trial. Shoot a cop and the only call would be to the coroner to pick up your remains. Get real, keyboard commando.

That hasn't been the case in quite a few shootings, last one in UT I believe it was ended up killing a few and injuring quite a few more.... With a Beretta 9mm.

Even so, I'd gladly trade my life to get one of those pieces of **** (corrupt cops) off the streets.

eye95 · Sep 30, 2013

TechnoWeenie said:
...Even so, I'd gladly trade my life to get one of those pieces of **** (corrupt cops) off the streets.

Then, by all means, do so.

justified use of self defense ?

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