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Thread: Open Carry

  1. #1
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    Open Carry

    had my first negative OC experience at the sunset inn. I've just moved to Colorado about three weeks ago, I've done research and talked to a lot of people about OC. and to my understanding it is legal every were unless its posted on the door and schools, federal buildings of course. any ways I had just ordered (or I would have probably left) and a lady came up and asked me if I had a permit I said no she asked if I was a cop I said no then she told me that was not allowed. so I went out and put it in the car came back in and finished my meal paid and left. as for it being a bar and grill I've been In several bar and grills with out any problems. so am I understanding the law correctly
    Last edited by Vingen; 09-26-2013 at 11:05 PM.

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    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingen View Post
    had my first negative OC experience at the sunset inn. I've just moved to Colorado about three weeks ago, I've done research and talked to a lot of people about OC. and to my understanding it is legal every were unless its posted on the door and schools, federal buildings of course. any ways I had just ordered (or I would have probably left) and a lady came up and asked me if I had a permit I said no she asked if I was a cop I said no then she told me that was not allowed. so I went out and put it in the car came back in and finished my meal paid and left. as for it being a bar and grill I've been In several bar and grills with out any problems. so am I understanding the law correctly
    Keep in mind, on private property the owner/controller of the property makes the rules re: firearms. Even if it's not posted they can still ask you to leave. But really, they can ask you to leave if you're wearing a blue shirt. As to the legality, she's wrong. Legally you are allowed to OC in a bar and grill. You cannot drink alcohol while you are carrying (open or concealed).

    So it's kind of sketchy. She may have meant the management doesn't allow it. But it should be posted if that's the case.

    The main difference between posting and not in CO is that if it's posted, the owner can ask you to leave and if you don't, hit you for trespassing. If it's not posted, you could argue that you were not informed before entering. Either way, you'll be leaving because it's the owners right to refuse service.

  3. #3
    Regular Member twoforme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingen View Post
    SNIP- and a lady came up and asked me if I had a permit I said no she asked if I was a cop I said no then she told me that was not allowed.
    Who was this 'lady' and what relationship does she have to the establishment? Does she represent the owners?

    And welcome to OCDO.:)
    Current dogma holds that citizens have a duty to defer to any order issued by an armed individual dressed in a State-issued costume.


    This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingen View Post
    had my first negative OC experience at the sunset inn. I've just moved to Colorado about three weeks ago, I've done research and talked to a lot of people about OC. and to my understanding it is legal every were unless its posted on the door and schools, federal buildings of course. any ways I had just ordered (or I would have probably left) and a lady came up and asked me if I had a permit I said no she asked if I was a cop I said no then she told me that was not allowed. so I went out and put it in the car came back in and finished my meal paid and left. as for it being a bar and grill I've been In several bar and grills with out any problems. so am I understanding the law correctly
    When the lady came up and asked if you have a permit, you should have said, 'go away, I'm busy'. End of discussion. If she identified herself as the owner or representative, then you should have gone to the manager, asked for a refund and then left.

    Oh, wait you hadn't paid for it. Well then, you should have just walked out after telling the manager, "I'm being told to leave by your representative, my meal is uneaten, so I won't be paying for it good day".

    Uh, welcome to OCDO.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 09-27-2013 at 08:13 PM.

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    I don't know what her relationship to the establishment was she wasn't a waitress, I'm assuming she was ether the owner or manager. If she was the owner then she has the right to make the rules. so I just complied with her request. I feel it would look more favorable then being rude leaving with out paying and making a scene and making her and others think that all people who openly carry guns are criminals or bad people and furthering what ever stereotype she has for gun owners but if I had it to do over again I would have just paid for mine and my wife's drinks (Pepsi not an alcoholic drink) and just left. I definitely won't be back the biggest reason being they don't support our 2nd amendment and the other being that the food and service sucked.

    also thanks to all who replied I appreciate the input and does anyone know of any open carry groups or meets in the Pueblo or Colorado Springs area?
    thanks again

  6. #6
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingen View Post
    SNIP....I just complied with her request. I feel it would look more favorable then being rude leaving with out paying and making a scene and making her and others think that all people who openly carry guns are criminals or bad people and furthering what ever stereotype she has for gun owners but if I had it to do over again I would have just paid for mine and my wife's drinks (Pepsi not an alcoholic drink) and just left. I definitely won't be back the biggest reason being they don't support our 2nd amendment and the other being that the food and service sucked.
    The reason Maverick9 mentioned leaving without paying is because you are under no obligation to pay for services NOT rendered. You aren't paying solely for the (questionable) food, but for the service and courtesy (the "dining experience"). It is an implicit contract between you and the establishment in question that money will be exchanged for the food, the service, and courtesy. If they breach that contract, you have no reason to keep up your end of the bargain.
    It also doesn't help that you effectively admitted to KNOWINGLY patronizing an anti-gun business.

    As to the reason for leaving instead of disarming and returning, "You" (as a person, entity, being, etc.) includes your rights, and the right to life and defense of the same is one of those rights. If your gun isn't welcome, you're not welcome, and your $ (being the good friend that it is) will choose to leave along with you and your gun. Just make sure you make it clear WHY you are leaving. It wouldn't be such a bad idea to print off some "No guns = No $" cards to leave behind so that management realizes they are losing money because of their anti-rights policy (usually this matters more to them than the safety of their customers).

    If appearing rude is such a big concern, just do it in a polite manner, use an even (maybe even friendly) tone, and walk out of there without letting anything or anyone rile you up (just helps them prove their misconceptions).
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 09-27-2013 at 11:47 PM. Reason: Emphasis on "knowingly"

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    First off I do like the No Gun = No $ cards that is a good idea I just might make some of those. Also I forgot to add that the woman while on our way out said "Sorry about that" so at that time I told her (as politely as I could) that if that was her policy that she should consider putting a sign on the door. Because had I seen a no gun sign on the door I would have turned around and left right then and there, as I know all of you probably would have done. And I feel the more people that she sees drive up, park, get out, walk to the door, then turn around and leave would make a real good statement.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingen View Post
    SNIP...I told her (as politely as I could) that if that was her policy that she should consider putting a sign on the door. Because had I seen a no gun sign on the door I would have turned around and left right then and there, as I know all of you probably would have done. And I feel the more people that she sees drive up, park, get out, walk to the door, then turn around and leave would make a real good statement.
    Neversuggestputtingupgunbustersigns.
    Also, never:
    Let them know their gunbuster signs do not adhere to the format specified by local anti-gun ordinances.
    Call ahead of time to ask about their gun policy, since that might encourage them to form an anti-gun policy.
    [Anyone care to join in? I know there must be something I'm missing here]

    We want to make management have to throw out every single armed LAC so that they understand they are losing business. They will likely ignore or not even notice people coming up, then driving away. Sorry if I come off as angry at you, but I am a bit frustrated by your actions at the time. Stuff like that, while seemingly innocent, makes it harder for the next OCer or armed LAC, and potentially adds another anti-gun establishment to the list of anti-rights establishments we should not patronize. We want to make allies, not encourage their hand to join the true Dark Side.
    I know, only a Sith deals in absolutes.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 09-28-2013 at 02:54 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingen View Post
    had my first negative OC experience at the sunset inn. I've just moved to Colorado about three weeks ago, I've done research and talked to a lot of people about OC. and to my understanding 1} it is legal every were unless its posted on the door and schools, federal buildings of course. any ways I had just ordered (or I would have probably left) and a lady came up and asked me if I had a permit I said no she asked if I was a cop I said no then she told me that was not allowed. so I went out and put it in the car came back in and finished my meal paid and left. as for it being a bar and grill I've been In several bar and grills with out any problems. so am I understanding the law correctly
    1} The entire city/county of Denver is a NO OC zone.

    2} I have been asked to "put my gun in my truck" after ordering a couple times, I just say "OK; I'll put myself back in my truck while I'm at it", throw a couple bucks on the table, say "That should cover the (coffee/drink)" and leave.

    PS-
    I'm betting you are on "The Front Range", I have had restaurant managers/owners thank me for carrying here on the "Freedom" side of the hump.
    Last edited by F350; 09-28-2013 at 05:06 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingen View Post
    First off I do like the No Gun = No $ cards that is a good idea I just might make some of those. Also I forgot to add that the woman while on our way out said "Sorry about that" so at that time I told her (as politely as I could) that if that was her policy that she should consider putting a sign on the door. Because had I seen a no gun sign on the door I would have turned around and left right then and there, as I know all of you probably would have done. And I feel the more people that she sees drive up, park, get out, walk to the door, then turn around and leave would make a real good statement.
    Yeah, she's definitely going to be looking out the window, pining for customers, seeing people come up and read the door sign you got her to put up right next to the menu and then leaving. She'll think she needs to change the menu to offer more pasta. That's sarcasm.

    And as to putting the gun in the car. I'd laugh if some gang banger was in the parking lot watching and saw you doing that, broke into your car and then came up and robbed the restaurant with your gun. That's irony.

    You might say if it happens again 'I'll go put my gun in the car and I hope someone doesn't break into it and come in here and rob the place. Since you're disarming me, YOU are responsible for my safety and I'll sue your pants off if I get shot or robbed. Deal?'

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    I would have ..

    Said, yes I do have a permit.
    Since no permit here exists for OC she must have been asking if under state law u are allowed to carry. Then maybe if pressed show her a copy of state law.and there you go 1 instant permit.

  12. #12
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    SNIP-- You cannot drink alcohol while you are carrying (open or concealed).--SNIP
    FALSE
    You are legally allowed to consume alcoholic beverages while carrying openly or concealed.

    I'm not going to get into the discussion of should or should not or anyone person's particular feelings on the subject. Just know that according to the law, it is permissible.

    It is not legal to be "intoxicated" while packing heat, but the term is not perfectly defined in the statutes. Most jurisdictions go with the same BAC values as DUI. So, if you can handle the deadly weapon in the parking lot, you can handle the one on your hip.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingen View Post
    ... I feel it would look more favorable then being rude ...
    She was the one being rude...
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    ...So, if you can handle the deadly weapon in the parking lot, you can handle the one on your hip.
    And even more so because the former is operation of a deadly weapon, and the latter is mere possession.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    She was the one being rude...
    I had an encounter once in a liquor store that I could see starting to go sideways.
    The manager and three big stockmen walked up to me and he said, "Are you carrying a gun?"
    I replied, "Yes. Aren't you?"
    "No."
    "You're weird."
    That just made his eyes kinda roll sideways, because it completely derailed the mental script that he had going in his head. After he got it back together he asked, "Do you have a permit?"
    And when I then replied that a permit was not necessary for open carry in the state of Colorado and that it was perfectly legal without one, he just kinda shrugged and went "Huh."
    He ant the three big guys just turned around and went back to what they were doing before.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vingen View Post
    ...a lady came up and asked me if I had a permit I said no...
    I've been asked if I was a cop on several occasions. Only once did someone ask me if I had a permit. I dislike squabbling, so I ended the argument before it began by answering, "Not required for Open Carry. This is Colorado."

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesB View Post
    That just made his eyes kinda roll sideways, because it completely derailed the mental script that he had going in his head.
    Yep. Stay one step ahead.
    Last edited by since9; 10-15-2013 at 03:00 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    I've been asked if I was a cop on several occasions. Only once did someone ask me if I had a permit. I dislike squabbling, so I ended the argument before it began by answering, "Not required for Open Carry. This is Colorado."



    Yep. Stay one step ahead.
    I usually like to take that opportunity to (calmly and collectively) inform them about the law, the importance of the right to protect oneself, and so on.

    While I share your sentiment, we want more people on our side. We can't afford to scare them off.

    my .02

  18. #18
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy!

    Them: "Do you have a permit?"
    Me: "Yes" or "Yup!" or "You betcha" (depending on my humor at the moment)
    Them: "Can I see it please?"
    Me: "Sure you can!"
    Them: "Well....?"
    Me: "Go to your computer and look up Article 2 of the Colorado Constitution, section 13. There's my permit!"

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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