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Thread: Good Situational Awareness

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Good Situational Awareness

    So I had a strange encounter yesterday. My wife and I were leaving our apartment to walk to a local restaurant to meet a friend. As we left the apartment, I noticed a man dart out from behind a vehicle about 45 ft to my 2:00 position.

    He says, "Hey man!" and starts approaching us. I didn't feel comfortable with this, and I didn't know the guy. (I know several of my neighbors, and had never seen this guy before.) As he approached, I told him that I "wasn't interested."

    He keeps approaching us and says "Oh you aren't interested? You afraid of people?" I respond with "I just don't like people I don't know approaching me like that."

    He continues to walk up behind us, and says, "Oh you'll get over that."

    I finally stop walking and turn around and tell him to leave us alone. He cuts across the the parking lot and approaches a waiting truck. He then turned around and began to yell at us and approach us again, telling us to not "give him that crazy look."

    At this point, I reached behind my back, where I had my glock concealed IWB, and I saw Courtney reaching into her purse for her .38. (we never had to actually draw)

    In a very loud voice that would wake the dead, I commanded him to STOP! LEAVE US ALONE. GET IN YOUR CAR AND DRIVE AWAY!

    The man yelled back at me, "what are you reaching for?!"

    I simply continued my commands, and eventually, after yelling at us in Spanish, he got in the truck and drove away.

    One thing I did notice was the driver of the truck was very calm. He didn't look at me with the "stank eye", he didn't yell, and he obviously didn't want to be involved at all. He even drove away calmly.

    Personally I think we handled the situation very well, but if there was anything we could have done differently, we would like to know.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    I commanded him to STOP! LEAVE US ALONE. GET IN YOUR CAR AND DRIVE AWAY!
    You obviously did ok, since the situation was defused and the potential attacker did go away. Personally, I would have said "Stop! Leave us/me alone. I have a gun and I know how to use it." That's all. I would have kept my hand near my gun and watched him until he did go away, or I was forced to draw, whichever.

    In the three potential attacks I've experienced, the presence of my OC gun - and once my grip on that gun after lifting the retention strap - caused the would be bad guys to run like hell. I didn't have to tell them I had a gun... they could see it. I only actually had to shoot once... http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/?page_id=846 That attacker ignored the gun in my hand, pointed straight at him. So you just never know.

    The potential for a continued attack is greater, obviously, if they cannot see it... but in that case there should be no problem with clearly warning them that you DO. And then you just have to hope they take the hint.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  3. #3
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    So I had a strange encounter yesterday. My wife and I were leaving our apartment to walk to a local restaurant to meet a friend. As we left the apartment, I noticed a man dart out from behind a vehicle about 45 ft to my 2:00 position.

    He says, "Hey man!" and starts approaching us. I didn't feel comfortable with this, and I didn't know the guy. (I know several of my neighbors, and had never seen this guy before.) As he approached, I told him that I "wasn't interested."

    He keeps approaching us and says "Oh you aren't interested? You afraid of people?" I respond with "I just don't like people I don't know approaching me like that."

    He continues to walk up behind us, and says, "Oh you'll get over that."

    I finally stop walking and turn around and tell him to leave us alone. He cuts across the the parking lot and approaches a waiting truck. He then turned around and began to yell at us and approach us again, telling us to not "give him that crazy look."

    At this point, I reached behind my back, where I had my glock concealed IWB, and I saw Courtney reaching into her purse for her .38. (we never had to actually draw)

    In a very loud voice that would wake the dead, I commanded him to STOP! LEAVE US ALONE. GET IN YOUR CAR AND DRIVE AWAY!

    The man yelled back at me, "what are you reaching for?!"

    I simply continued my commands, and eventually, after yelling at us in Spanish, he got in the truck and drove away.

    One thing I did notice was the driver of the truck was very calm. He didn't look at me with the "stank eye", he didn't yell, and he obviously didn't want to be involved at all. He even drove away calmly.

    Personally I think we handled the situation very well, but if there was anything we could have done differently, we would like to know.
    Seems to me that you did just fine... but did you make a report to the police? If he's approaching you, chances are good that he's approaching others. Did you get the license plate info to pass on to the police?

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Seems to me that you did just fine... but did you make a report to the police? If he's approaching you, chances are good that he's approaching others. Did you get the license plate info to pass on to the police?
    Unfortunately I didn't even think about that...
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    Unfortunately I didn't even think about that...
    No worries, I probably wouldn't have done so either (get the plate info). The adrenalin was probably flowing pretty heavily at that point....

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    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Heck, my adrenaline was flowing just reading the story, I didn't think about a license plate either. don't know if taking out a cell phone and begining to tape the encounter would have made a difference or not. .......


    "Hey man, what cha doin?"

    "I am recording this incident so when you fail to heed my warnings and I am forced to defend myself I will have evidence to prove why I felt it necessary to use deadly force."

    (said from someone who has not been in such a position before and thinks I could say that much coherently without my voice cracking)

  7. #7
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    Heck, my adrenaline was flowing just reading the story, I didn't think about a license plate either. don't know if taking out a cell phone and begining to tape the encounter would have made a difference or not. .......


    "Hey man, what cha doin?"

    "I am recording this incident so when you fail to heed my warnings and I am forced to defend myself I will have evidence to prove why I felt it necessary to use deadly force."

    (said from someone who has not been in such a position before and thinks I could say that much coherently without my voice cracking)
    I really need to get a recorder... BUT I was lucky. There were two gentlemen working on a car nearby that saw the whole thing. I talked to them afterwards and they agreed that there are too many crazies out.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  8. #8
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    No worries, I probably wouldn't have done so either (get the plate info). The adrenalin was probably flowing pretty heavily at that point....
    Yeah. I didn't calm down until about an hour later..
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  9. #9
    Regular Member Sir Diealotz's Avatar
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    Good deal IMO.

    Perhaps have your smart phone or ??? convenient to record in case needed i.e. Get a picture or video of the vehicle and plate as they leave.

  10. #10
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    I really need to get a recorder... BUT I was lucky. There were two gentlemen working on a car nearby that saw the whole thing. I talked to them afterwards and they agreed that there are too many crazies out.

    if you have a smart phone there is an app for that. I have voice recorder and video recorder on my main page where I can start them in a hurry if need be.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrearick View Post
    if you have a smart phone there is an app for that. I have voice recorder and video recorder on my main page where I can start them in a hurry if need be.
    I didn't even want to take my eyes of the guy. My phone has a voice recorder too
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  12. #12
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    I really need to get a recorder... BUT I was lucky. There were two gentlemen working on a car nearby that saw the whole thing. I talked to them afterwards and they agreed that there are too many crazies out.
    Glad to hear your experience went nowhere crime-wise, but you should file a report, as others have already mentioned. You never know who this nutjob may target next, or what he would do to the next person. Plus, you have two third-party witnesses that can also file reports on this guy. Sadly, you can't always count on credible/honest witnesses, or any witnesses, being present. A minimum of a video and/or audio recorder is a MUST-HAVE when out and about seeing as antis, statists and gun-grabbers have been known to make politicians look like Honest Abe by comparison. Reading some of these threads, I hate to admit that a couple have B action movie potential.

    I am a poor university student, so my funds are quite limited as is without having to go through expensive litigation to deal with a lying hoplophobe's twisted accusations against me (probability low, but possibility exists, as evidenced by threads here on OCDO). A recorder is just a low-cost kind of insurance, and a lot easier to carry around than an adult (same reason I carry a 1911 instead of a cop). Even a $200 purchase of a very high-quality video recorder will seem cheap compared to learning about the entire drawn-out legal process firsthand.

    I can personally vouch for the Veho Muvi Pro Micro, which costs about $40 if bought used from Amazon:
    (http://www.amazon.com/Veho-Muvi-Pro-...ords=muvi+veho)
    I've ordered a second (limited funds force me to assemble my carry get-up piecemeal). Just recommend buying a class 10 8gb Micro SD card for higher transfer speeds and smoother recordings.

    I have FreeInAZ to thank for answering my questions about it after I'd narrowed the Video/Audio recorder candidates to three. He or Bikenut (if memory serves me right) could probably also point you to some decent, highly-affordable recorders.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    So I had a strange encounter yesterday. My wife and I were leaving our apartment to walk

    1. At this point, I reached behind my back, where I had my glock concealed IWB, and I saw Courtney reaching into her purse for her .38. (we never had to actually draw)

    2. In a very loud voice that would wake the dead, I commanded him to STOP! LEAVE US ALONE. GET IN YOUR CAR AND DRIVE AWAY!

    3. I simply continued my commands, and eventually, after yelling at us in Spanish, he got in the truck and drove away.

    4. Personally I think we handled the situation very well, but if there was anything we could have done differently, we would like to know.
    1. I have been in situations like this with my Sweet Baboo. When we get to where I am moving to the weapon, her job is commo first, ie.911. She stays on the line and gives running commentary.

    2. This is great. Command voice is a great tool.

    3. see 2

    4. You both did great as no one was injured.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    I didn't even want to take my eyes of the guy. My phone has a voice recorder too
    This is good tactics. Eyes on the threat. You did well, Grasshopper!
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    You should have, and still should report the incident to the police.

    The first person to call the police is the victim, everyone after that has some explaining to do.
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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    Glad to hear your experience went nowhere crime-wise, but you should file a report, as others have already mentioned. You never know who this nutjob may target next, or what he would do to the next person. Plus, you have two third-party witnesses that can also file reports on this guy. Sadly, you can't always count on credible/honest witnesses, or any witnesses, being present. A minimum of a video and/or audio recorder is a MUST-HAVE when out and about seeing as antis, statists and gun-grabbers have been known to make politicians look like Honest Abe by comparison. Reading some of these threads, I hate to admit that a couple have B action movie potential.

    I am a poor university student, so my funds are quite limited as is without having to go through expensive litigation to deal with a lying hoplophobe's twisted accusations against me (probability low, but possibility exists, as evidenced by threads here on OCDO). A recorder is just a low-cost kind of insurance, and a lot easier to carry around than an adult (same reason I carry a 1911 instead of a cop). Even a $200 purchase of a very high-quality video recorder will seem cheap compared to learning about the entire drawn-out legal process firsthand.

    I can personally vouch for the Veho Muvi Pro Micro, which costs about $40 if bought used from Amazon:
    (http://www.amazon.com/Veho-Muvi-Pro-...ords=muvi+veho)
    I've ordered a second (limited funds force me to assemble my carry get-up piecemeal). Just recommend buying a class 10 8gb Micro SD card for higher transfer speeds and smoother recordings.

    I have FreeInAZ to thank for answering my questions about it after I'd narrowed the Video/Audio recorder candidates to three. He or Bikenut (if memory serves me right) could probably also point you to some decent, highly-affordable recorders.
    I'm a university student too, and my funds are also limited. I will take a look at that recorder though.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  16. #16
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    1. I have been in situations like this with my Sweet Baboo. When we get to where I am moving to the weapon, her job is commo first, ie.911. She stays on the line and gives running commentary.

    2. This is great. Command voice is a great tool.

    3. see 2

    4. You both did great as no one was injured.



    This is good tactics. Eyes on the threat. You did well, Grasshopper!
    Thank you!
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  17. #17
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    You should have, and still should report the incident to the police.

    The first person to call the police is the victim, everyone after that has some explaining to do.
    What exactly do you say? That has always been one of my weak points. I don't want to say too much and maybe get myself in trouble.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    1. I have been in situations like this with my Sweet Baboo. When we get to where I am moving to the weapon, her job is commo first, ie.911. She stays on the line and gives running commentary.
    That's actually a really great tactic. One provides suppressive fire (or the threat thereof) while the other calls in reinforcements. I'm short a spousal unit, and my friends don't carry, so I guess I have an excuse to go looking for a pro-2A spousal unit (as if that's necessary ).

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    ..... I'm short a spousal unit, and my friends don't carry, so I guess I have an excuse to go looking for a pro-2A spousal unit (as if that's necessary ).
    or carry two weapons
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  20. #20
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    What you did wrong...

    While leaving your apartment... 1) He knows where you live;

    You were approached, but your life was not threatened, but reached for your gun... 2) by some definitions you brandished

    You engaged the person in conversation... 3) You have no way to identify him because you didn't divide up the SA tasks with your partner correctly. She should be operating the cell phone and the camera. If the guy got violent you WANT 911 on the line to hear it go down.

    He ran over to a truck where a friend was waiting...4) But you did not get a license number or any way to identify the truck or the driver

    He was driven off and you went to the restaurant...5) But did not call in a report to the police

    Though you had witnesses...6) I bet you did not get their names or any contact information (something you'd normally do for a car accident, right?)

    You reached for your firearms... 7) He and his friend, knowing where you live, now know you have firearms probably worth stealing.

    By not calling it in to the cops... 8) The guy could have called them and said 'I was just walking down the street and two people who live in Apartment building XYZ came out and threatened me with their guns'.

    Other than that, you did good. No injuries, no robbery.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 09-27-2013 at 03:48 PM.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    What you did wrong...

    While leaving your apartment... 1) He knows where you live;

    You were approached, but your life was not threatened, but reached for your gun 2) by some definitions you brandished

    You engaged the person in conversation... 3) You have no way to identify him because you didn't divide up the SA tasks with your partner correctly.

    He ran over to a truck where a friend was waiting...4) But you did not get a license number or any way to identify the truck or the driver

    He was driven off and you went to the restaurant...5) But did not call in a report to the police

    Though you had witnesses...6) I bet you did not get their names or any contact information (something you'd normally do for a car accident, right?)

    You reached for your firearms... 7) He and his friend, knowing where you live, now know you have firearms probably worth stealing.

    By not calling it in to the cops... 8) The guy could have called them and said 'I was just walking down the street and two people who live in Apartment building XYZ came out and threatened me with their guns'.

    Other than that, you did good. No injuries, no robbery.
    Except they don't know that I reached for a gun. I was CC, with an IWB holster, and never announced anything about a gun. I could have been reaching for a cell, or maybe a knife, or maybe I was scratching my behind. Lol
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  22. #22
    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    What you did wrong...

    While leaving your apartment... 1) He knows where you live;
    I don't see where you could say that was something they did wrong - should they stay in their apartment cowering in fear, peering out the windows until they can be sure nobody is out there?
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  23. #23
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    I don't see where you could say that was something they did wrong - should they stay in their apartment cowering in fear, peering out the windows until they can be sure nobody is out there?
    The 'wrong' is situational, true but I was setting up point 7, that because it happened right outside your apartment, he knows where you live, can report you to the cops, and can case the joint for a firearm, which he probably thinks you were reaching for.

    Truth is you'll probably never hear from the guy again, but -because- it happened close enough to home that he can find you, it would have been prudent to exercise more due diligence. I.e. get a license plate, call in a police report and try to identify the guy. It may not help you immediately, but if he is picked up shortly after they might be able to ascertain it's the same guy who is running some scam or mugging operation.

    Another way to look at it for perspective...say you were visiting a city 50 miles away and this happened while you were coming out of a random building. You'll go home and never see the guy again, he can't call in a report of brandishing (a lie, sure) because you're not there, and he can't case the joint to see if you really do have guns.

    In THAT instance, I'd say it's silly to call it in, or get a plate number or be at all worried. But that's not the case. It DID happen near the OP's home, he can track you, he suspects you may have a gun and he could tell the cops you brandished.

    Exhaustive, worst case analysis? Sure. That's why people post here, right?
    Last edited by Maverick9; 09-27-2013 at 04:04 PM.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Eddy -

    You done good.

    There are some things you could have done better. Many of them have been discussed above. Read over them with Courtney and decide which ones you would like to work on.

    The next time you and your wife plan to go out to dinner, go to WalMart instead (or any of the other big box stores) and spend the money on a digital voice recorder. No need to get the top of the line one that records for 96 hours on one AAA NiMH battery - 8 or 12 hours are probably overkill for you.

    As for what to say - I am a proponent of keeping it short and sweet (at least in this sort of situation): STOP! STAY AWAY FROM ME(US)! And if they continue in spite of that, try GET BACK! I TOLD YOU TO STAY AWAY! (Do not go for the unfortunately popular "Take one step closer and I'll blow your head off" or the like.)

    When everybody goes home with the same number of openings in their body as they started out with, and no laws were broken (or bent too badly) it generally is a good day.

    stay safe.
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  25. #25
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Eddy -

    You done good.

    There are some things you could have done better. Many of them have been discussed above. Read over them with Courtney and decide which ones you would like to work on.

    The next time you and your wife plan to go out to dinner, go to WalMart instead (or any of the other big box stores) and spend the money on a digital voice recorder. No need to get the top of the line one that records for 96 hours on one AAA NiMH battery - 8 or 12 hours are probably overkill for you.

    As for what to say - I am a proponent of keeping it short and sweet (at least in this sort of situation): STOP! STAY AWAY FROM ME(US)! And if they continue in spite of that, try GET BACK! I TOLD YOU TO STAY AWAY! (Do not go for the unfortunately popular "Take one step closer and I'll blow your head off" or the like.)

    When everybody goes home with the same number of openings in their body as they started out with, and no laws were broken (or bent too badly) it generally is a good day.

    stay safe.
    All good advice there, Eddy ... but make sure no one sees you brandishing your finger at the bad guy... ;-)

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