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Thread: If you think OC is covered under the new HB937, READ THIS!!!

  1. #1
    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Exclamation If you think OC is covered under the new HB937, READ THIS!!!

    There is another thread asking this specific question, but based on a couple responses it seems some folks are reading the new law wrong. I'm not trying to get multiple threads of the same thing going, I just worry that the other thread's title may not draw many folks in. Hopefully this one will.

    I hope all NC OC'ers understand that, as crappy as it bay be, open carry IS NOT covered, even if you have a CHP. I would hate for one of you guys to make the mistake of thinking OC was covered, and then end up in legal trouble as a result. To save time, here is my response from that thread where the comment was made about the new law not specifically saying the weapon needed to be concealed, but that the individual only needed to have a CHP. This is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medic1210 View Post
    HB937, as it relates to restaurants, movie theaters, etc is an amendment to NCGS 14-269.3(b) where prior to now it said it was unlawful to carry in those places. The big picture you need to see is 14-269.3(b) is a subsection of NCGS 14.269 which is entitled "Carrying Concealed Weapons". That is the statute that covers concealed weapons specifically, and says its illegal... except in the circumstances listed under 14-269(a1), specifically as it applies to most us us, 14-269(a1)(2). They did not write a complete new statute saying folks could carry in a restaurant, they simply made an amendment saying it didn't apply to those who are "carrying the concealed handgun in accordance with the scope of the concealed handgun permit as set out in G.S. 14-415.11(c)."

    Since the statute that has been amended to allow restaurant carry is a subsection of 14-269, it in fact does specifically apply to concealed carry, not open carry. Again, if you feel your interpretation is solid, feel free to test it out and let us know how it goes for you.
    NCGS 14-269

    NCGS 14-269.3

    HB937 as Ratified and passed The underlined parts are what was added to current law. Any strike through is what was removed from current law.
    Last edited by Medic1210; 09-27-2013 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Added clickable links to the law

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    Regular Member dmatting's Avatar
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    There is specific text in 14-277.2 talking about carrying concealed while it is not included in 14-269.3

    This is from the ratified version of HB937

    SECTION 3. G.S. 14‑269.3(b) reads as rewritten:
    [...]
    (5) A person carrying a handgun if the person has a valid concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14‑415.24, or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14‑415.25. This subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c)."

    SECTION 15. G.S. 14‑277.2 is amended by adding a new subsection to read:

    "(d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to concealed carry of a handgun at a parade or funeral procession by a person with a valid permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, with a permit considered valid under G.S. 14‑415.24, or who is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14‑415.25. This subsection shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a concealed handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c)."
    The difference looks quite clear to me

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    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Most likely those two sections were written by different legislators. Same thing happened regarding sections i, j, and k under 14-269.2. Sections i and j were written by one person, and specifically mention the right of a private institution to bar guns on campus. Section k has no mention of that, and makes it sound like if you had a CHP, the ban wouldn't apply to you. Jacqueline Schaffer was asked about that, and her response was exactly what I said. Written by different legislators.

    Here is a link to a summary written by staff legal analysts and attorneys for the NC General Assembly

    Here is the summary for section 3

    Section 3 authorizes a person with a concealed carry permit to carry a concealed handgun at assemblies where an admission fee is charged and any establishment that serves alcohol unless the person in control of the premises has posted a notice prohibiting carrying a concealed handgun on the premises.

    If folks still want to read it differently, by all means, feel free. It's your money, time, background, etc...

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    Persons with strong convictions about their private interpretation can prove their convictions by wading into the depths.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    there has been some that would argue that OC was already allowed since there was lack of law against it.

    i am not one of them

    there will be a lot of confusion until some courts have ruled. till then we OCers are SOL

    get this the group (that want you to disarm, before you go to their M&G) wants you to go to a dinner to celebrate. talk about gall
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    there has been some that would argue that OC was already allowed since there was lack of law against it.
    Well, anyone who thinks that is wrong, because there is most definitely a law against it.

    NCGS 14-269.3 clearly says

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

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    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Also, to show how different laws may be more specificity worded based on who wrote them, here is an example of a law that clearly distinguishes the method of carry, and interestingly enough, they are right next to each other sequentially.

    NCGS 14-269.3(a) says "It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly...."

    Notice they just say carry, without any mention of open or concealed. Now look at the very next statute, NCGS 14-269.4, which says

    "It shall be unlawful for any person to possess, or carry, whether openly or concealed, any deadly weapon, not used solely for instructional or officially sanctioned ceremonial purposes in the State Capitol Building,..."

    Then check out NCGS 14-415.11(c3) which says

    "As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State-owned rest area, at any State-owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State-owned hunting and fishing reservation."

    So there are three laws, side by side that show differences in wording regarding carrying guns. Interestingly enough, that last one goes against the claims I've heard more than once that say, and I'm paraphrasing, "If you're looking for a law that says OC is legal, you won't find it, because laws don't say what you can do, they say what you can't." That last one specifically says it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly. That right there is proof that OC is in fact legal in NC, and not just by way of default since there isn't a law specifically saying OC is illegal like there is regarding concealed carry.


    Anyway, I just wanted to point that out mainly for the folks who still want to think that HB937 is making OC legal in restaurants on the basis it doesn't specifically say only carry concealed. Since there is no relation between the right to carry openly and the need for a CHP, the mere fact that carry in restaurants serving alcohol will be limited only to those with a current valid CHP should be the indicator that it only applies to concealed carry.

    Again, IANAL, so if you still feel strongly enough about your convictions, feel free to be the test case.
    Last edited by Medic1210; 09-29-2013 at 11:41 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medic1210 View Post
    (Snip)

    Again, IANAL, so if you still feel strongly enough about your convictions, feel free to be the test case.
    I am really hoping that some fool, errrr I mean patriot, decides to be the test case. There is a good chance with the wording that not only can the person win, but that it could result in open carry without a permit in such areas. As it should be.

    But being a test case is not for me, I don't have the extra money to throw away on attorneys and court fees. Not to mention what happens if the (cough, cough) patriot loses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    ..... Not to mention what happens if the (cough, cough) patriot loses.
    I looked it up and if it is your first offense with no prior convictions, community service is most likely.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary737 View Post
    I looked it up and if it is your first offense with no prior convictions, community service is most likely.
    Plus losing that expensive privilege card, attorney's fees, court costs, and possibly a person's job.

    But be my guest, I will be rooting for you...

    Besides that the law has not even taken affect, how could you even dream to know that a violator would get community service?
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 09-29-2013 at 04:46 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Plus losing that expensive privilege card, attorney's fees, court costs, and possibly a person's job.

    But be my guest, I will be rooting for you...

    Besides that the law has not even taken affect, how could you even dream to know that a violator would get community service?
    Don't forget you're gonna most likely lose your gun. As for the CHP, I would imagine someone who had the privilege card would just conceal. At least I can't imagine someone actually risking the hassle by OC to be a test case.

    Regarding the community service, that is required by law. The law states carrying illegally in a theater or restaurant serving alcohol is punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor. Under NC Structured Sentencing guidelines, Misdemeanors are classed A1, 1, 2, and 3 with the most severe being A1 and least being 3. By law, a judge is required to issue a community punishment for first offenders convicted of a class 1, 2, or 3.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medic1210 View Post
    Don't forget you're gonna most likely lose your gun. As for the CHP, I would imagine someone who had the privilege card would just conceal. At least I can't imagine someone actually risking the hassle by OC to be a test case.

    Regarding the community service, that is required by law. The law states carrying illegally in a theater or restaurant serving alcohol is punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor. Under NC Structured Sentencing guidelines, Misdemeanors are classed A1, 1, 2, and 3 with the most severe being A1 and least being 3. By law, a judge is required to issue a community punishment for first offenders convicted of a class 1, 2, or 3.
    stated boldly w/o even a caveat you are not an attorney...
    i am positive you will be sure to ask the policeman to book you under the misdemeanor law verses some other statute encompassing the felony laws and be sure to speak up and insists the judge ensures he follows the sentencing guidelines as you stand before him for carrying in violation of the law....

    oh wait...it is a guideline for goodness sakes not a mandatory requirement the judicial system has to follow unless they truly want to.

    oh wait again...your attorney can appeal and ask the next court for relief or you sentencing cuz the first nasty judge trying your first case didn't follow the sentencing guidelines...and the attorney gets richer...

    and also stated w/o any type of citation...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-29-2013 at 11:18 PM.
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    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    stated boldly w/o even a caveat you are not an attorney...

    oh wait...it is a guideline for goodness sakes not a mandatory requirement the judicial system has to follow unless they truly want to.

    and also stated w/o any type of citation...

    ipse
    Hey, if you're gonna hop into a thread and be a condescending *****, you should maybe do a little research to make sure what you say is right.

    Per the NCGS 14-269.3
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    You see, the law is very clear what someone who carries in a restaurant that serves alcohol gets charged with. It's right there in bold writing. The police officer may try to charge you with other "felonies" but if your only offense is carrying illegally in a restaurant, the crime you are guilty of is a class 1 misdemeanor. Since that is what we were talking about, that is where the community sentence answer comes in.

    Now, according to http://www.nccourts.org/Courts/CRS/C...nguide2012.pdf
    North Carolina operates under a policy of structured sentencing to ensure crimes receive appropriate sentences. Per this guideline

    HOW ARE CRIMES CLASSIFIED?
    Felony crimes are classified into letter classes (from Offense Class A through Class I) depending on their seriousness. Crimes which involve victim injury or the risk of victim injury are assigned to the highest classes. Property crimes and other crimes which do not normally involve the risk of victim injury are assigned to lower classes. Misdemeanor crimes are classified into four classes (Class A1, Class 1, Class 2 and Class 3). The most serious misdemeanor crimes are in Class A1 and the least serious are in Class 3.


    Regardless of the offender’s prior record, the judge may impose either an active, intermediate or community punishment for offenders convicted of Class A1 misdemeanors. For offenders convicted of Class 1, 2 or 3 misdemeanors and with no prior convictions, the judge must impose a community punishment. For most other misdemeanants, the judge may impose either an active, intermediate or community punishment.


    So to recap, if you carry illegally in a restaurant that serves alcohol, the law says that is a Class 1 Misdemeanor. Per the NC Structured Sentencing Policy, class 1 Misdemeanors with no prior convictions MUST be given a community sentence ranging anywhere from 1-45 days.

    Is that enough citation for you?
    Last edited by Medic1210; 09-30-2013 at 01:55 AM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medic1210 View Post
    Hey, if you're gonna hop into a thread and be a condescending *****, you should maybe do a little research to make sure what you say is right.

    Per the NCGS 14-269.3
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    You see, the law is very clear what someone who carries in a restaurant that serves alcohol gets charged with. It's right there in bold writing. The police officer may try to charge you with other "felonies" but if your only offense is carrying illegally in a restaurant, the crime you are guilty of is a class 1 misdemeanor. Since that is what we were talking about, that is where the community sentence answer comes in.

    Now, according to http://www.nccourts.org/Courts/CRS/C...nguide2012.pdf
    North Carolina operates under a policy of structured sentencing to ensure crimes receive appropriate sentences. Per this guideline

    HOW ARE CRIMES CLASSIFIED?
    Felony crimes are classified into letter classes (from Offense Class A through Class I) depending on their seriousness. Crimes which involve victim injury or the risk of victim injury are assigned to the highest classes. Property crimes and other crimes which do not normally involve the risk of victim injury are assigned to lower classes. Misdemeanor crimes are classified into four classes (Class A1, Class 1, Class 2 and Class 3). The most serious misdemeanor crimes are in Class A1 and the least serious are in Class 3.


    Regardless of the offender’s prior record, the judge may impose either an active, intermediate or community punishment for offenders convicted of Class A1 misdemeanors. For offenders convicted of Class 1, 2 or 3 misdemeanors and with no prior convictions, the judge must impose a community punishment. For most other misdemeanants, the judge may impose either an active, intermediate or community punishment.


    So to recap, if you carry illegally in a restaurant that serves alcohol, the law says that is a Class 1 Misdemeanor. Per the NC Structured Sentencing Policy, class 1 Misdemeanors with no prior convictions MUST be given a community sentence ranging anywhere from 1-45 days.

    Is that enough citation for you?
    i am not an attorney but I am truly glad you live in your world where you perceive you will be actually be charged against that particular statute when the kind, nice policeman is done with you!! (visions of you discussing with the officer, they can't charge with anything else than what is outlined in the statute - how bout trespass for an example). of course as i did mentioned, the nice judge will follow the sentencing guidelines and give you community service...and is this exercise being accomplished with or without benefit of attorney? i would truly buy a ticket to see your reaction when the judge sentences you to thirty days in county lockup....just cuz they were having a bad day and you then begin your rhetoric of you cant do that you have to sentence me to the sentencing guidelines so i only get community service.

    now as for your perception i was condescending to you in my last post...perhaps you are a bit nave and thin skinned when someone criticizes your perception of the world so it provides you an excuse to resort to calling out ******* (whatever word i was suppose to be?)

    this hyperbole you feel is real and will cost you in time and money and might not go the way you believe it will and as i stated...it is a guideline...the judges can and do everyday make up the rules as they go along...

    btw...where in the statute did it mention you would lose your firearm? did i miss that part of the citation you provided...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 09-30-2013 at 11:10 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    i am not an attorney but I am truly glad you live in your world where you perceive you will be actually be charged against that particular statute when the kind, nice policeman is done with you!! (visions of you discussing with the officer, they can't charge with anything else than what is outlined in the statute - how bout trespass for an example).
    If you had actually bothered to read what I said prior to you claiming I was dreaming, you would have seen I was simply explaining to walkingwolf how Gary737 could claim being convicted would only result in community sentence. I was merely telling about NC structured sentencing policy. Now, in reference to being charged with tresspass, that would only apply if you were asked to leave by the owner or person in control of the building, and you then refused to leave. NCGS 14-159.13(a)(1)

    of course as i did mentioned, the nice judge will follow the sentencing guidelines and give you community service...
    So apparently in addition to not bothering to comprehend what others have said, you don't even comprehend what you said, which was, and I quote,

    oh wait...it is a guideline for goodness sakes not a mandatory requirement the judicial system has to follow unless they truly want to.

    oh wait again...your attorney can appeal and ask the next court for relief or you sentencing cuz the first nasty judge trying your first case didn't follow the sentencing guidelines
    You see? There's a difference between suggesting something is only a guideline to be followed if the judge is in a particular mood, and saying he will follow it. You clearly did the former.


    and is this exercise being accomplished with or without benefit of attorney? i would truly buy a ticket to see your reaction when the judge sentences you to thirty days in county lockup....just cuz they were having a bad day and you then begin your rhetoric of you cant do that you have to sentence me to the sentencing guidelines so i only get community service.
    It's called reading comprehension. You really need to work on yours. Nowhere in this entire thread have I once said or even hinted that I had any intention of testing the law by OC in a restaurant, yet here you are wanting to buy a ticket to come see me get sentenced by a mean old judge when I get arrested and charged with multiple different perceived crimes by the mean old policeman... Did you not even bother noticing I started this thread to warn others that the new law didn't cover OC to prevent anyone from winding up in legal trouble?

    So, why don't you go back and see if you can actually figure out who has made the suggestion of testing the law?


    and as i stated...it is a guideline...the judges can and do everyday make up the rules as they go along...
    Your turn to cite cases of judges making up rules as they go along.

    btw...where in the statute did it mention you would lose your firearm? did i miss that part of the citation you provided...

    ipse
    Since you haven't bothered to look anything else up before commenting, I'm not surprised you didn't make any effort to look this up either. In NC, a person charged with a gun crime will have the firearm confiscated by the police officer until the court case is heard. The firearm will only be returned to the defendant if he is not convicted of the crime he was charged with, and only provided the defendant is the lawful owner of said firearm. If the defendant is convicted of the crime, the firearm will not be returned to the defendant. It may be returned to its lawful owner only if the owner is someone other than the defendant. NCGS 15-11.1
    Last edited by Medic1210; 10-01-2013 at 01:13 AM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    quote: In NC, a person charged with a gun crime will have the firearm confiscated by the police officer until the court case is heard. The firearm will only be returned to the defendant if he is not convicted of the crime he was charged with, and only provided the defendant is the lawful owner of said firearm. If the defendant is convicted of the crime, the firearm will not be returned to the defendant. It may be returned to its lawful owner only if the owner is someone other than the defendant. NCGS 15-11.1 unquote

    got to love it...again the character attacks...
    however, what i am concerned with is a lack of your presenting the statute as it is written instead of with bias out of your perceived context to make your personal position.

    15-11.1 (b1)
    (b1) Notwithstanding subsections (a) and (b) of this section or any other provision of law, if the property seized is a firearm and the district attorney determines the firearm is no longer necessary or useful as evidence in a criminal trial, the district attorney, after notice to all parties known or believed by the district attorney to have an ownership or a possessory interest in the firearm, including the defendant, shall apply to the court for an order of disposition of the firearm. The judge, after hearing, may order the disposition of the firearm in one of the following ways:

    (1) By ordering the firearm returned to its rightful owner, when the rightful owner is someone other than the defendant and upon findings by the court (i) that the person, firm, or corporation determined by the court to be the rightful owner is entitled to possession of the firearm and (ii) that the person, firm, or corporation determined by the court to be the rightful owner of the firearm was unlawfully deprived of the same or had no knowledge or reasonable belief of the defendant's intention to use the firearm unlawfully.

    (2) By ordering the firearm returned to the defendant, but only if the defendant is not convicted of any criminal offense in connection with the possession or use of the firearm, the defendant is the rightful owner of the firearm, and the defendant is not otherwise ineligible to possess such firearm.

    (3) By ordering the firearm turned over to be destroyed by the sheriff of the county in which the firearm was seized or by his duly authorized agent. The sheriff shall maintain a record of the destruction of the firearm.

    (4) By ordering the firearm turned over to a law enforcement agency in the county of trial for (i) the official use of the agency or (ii) sale, trade, or exchange by the agency to a federally licensed firearm dealer in accordance with all applicable State and federal firearm laws. The court may order a disposition of the firearm pursuant to this subdivision only upon the written request of the head or chief of the law enforcement agency and only if the firearm has a legible, unique identification number. If the law enforcement agency sells the firearm, then the proceeds of the sale shall be remitted to the appropriate county finance officer as provided by G.S. 115C-452 to be used to maintain free public schools. The receiving law enforcement agency shall maintain a record and inventory of all firearms received pursuant to this subdivision

    as you can see there are several options within the statute which the judical system decides about returning a seized firearm...shame you seem to have failed to present...

    did i pass my reading comprehensive test to your satisfaction?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  17. #17
    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    quote: In NC, a person charged with a gun crime will have the firearm confiscated by the police officer until the court case is heard. The firearm will only be returned to the defendant if he is not convicted of the crime he was charged with, and only provided the defendant is the lawful owner of said firearm. If the defendant is convicted of the crime, the firearm will not be returned to the defendant. It may be returned to its lawful owner only if the owner is someone other than the defendant. NCGS 15-11.1 unquote

    got to love it...again the character attacks...
    however, what i am concerned with is a lack of your presenting the statute as it is written instead of with bias out of your perceived context to make your personal position.

    15-11.1 (b1)
    (b1) Notwithstanding subsections (a) and (b) of this section or any other provision of law, if the property seized is a firearm and the district attorney determines the firearm is no longer necessary or useful as evidence in a criminal trial, the district attorney, after notice to all parties known or believed by the district attorney to have an ownership or a possessory interest in the firearm, including the defendant, shall apply to the court for an order of disposition of the firearm. The judge, after hearing, may order the disposition of the firearm in one of the following ways:

    (1) By ordering the firearm returned to its rightful owner, when the rightful owner is someone other than the defendant and upon findings by the court (i) that the person, firm, or corporation determined by the court to be the rightful owner is entitled to possession of the firearm and (ii) that the person, firm, or corporation determined by the court to be the rightful owner of the firearm was unlawfully deprived of the same or had no knowledge or reasonable belief of the defendant's intention to use the firearm unlawfully.

    (2) By ordering the firearm returned to the defendant, but only if the defendant is not convicted of any criminal offense in connection with the possession or use of the firearm, the defendant is the rightful owner of the firearm, and the defendant is not otherwise ineligible to possess such firearm.

    (3) By ordering the firearm turned over to be destroyed by the sheriff of the county in which the firearm was seized or by his duly authorized agent. The sheriff shall maintain a record of the destruction of the firearm.

    (4) By ordering the firearm turned over to a law enforcement agency in the county of trial for (i) the official use of the agency or (ii) sale, trade, or exchange by the agency to a federally licensed firearm dealer in accordance with all applicable State and federal firearm laws. The court may order a disposition of the firearm pursuant to this subdivision only upon the written request of the head or chief of the law enforcement agency and only if the firearm has a legible, unique identification number. If the law enforcement agency sells the firearm, then the proceeds of the sale shall be remitted to the appropriate county finance officer as provided by G.S. 115C-452 to be used to maintain free public schools. The receiving law enforcement agency shall maintain a record and inventory of all firearms received pursuant to this subdivision

    as you can see there are several options within the statute which the judical system decides about returning a seized firearm...shame you seem to have failed to present...

    did i pass my reading comprehensive test to your satisfaction?

    ipse
    Only if it's graded on a curve with you as the only taker. While you highlighted more items that from the law, they only further prove what I said, which was that you would lose your firearm if you were convicted of carrying illegally. Since I knew I was dealing with someone who didn't even realize I wasn't the one who showed interest in testing the law against OC in the first place, I couldn't see any reason to make my response longer by adding parts that didn't change anything I said. I only stated the parts that mentioned the defendant, namely the part about a convicted defendant. Here you are now acting like I deliberately misrepresented the law, and left out parts that didn't support my claim. That's nonsense.

    Heck, you highlighted number three where it mentions ordering the firearm destroyed, and number 4 which orders it turned over to local LEO for departmental use. Guess what? You don't get your firearm back if it's destroyed or turned over to the police. And also, for the record, I saw no reason to mention the destroyed part, because it had been amended by SB443 which took effect last month, and now only allows damaged, non-functioning firearms to be destroyed. Working firearms will be sold to a licensed FFL.

    You highlight the word "may order" above, like it indicates the judge may order what the law says or what he wants. Nope. The "may order" is in reference to the options laid out in the law.

    So do you care to explain how you felt you showed I was in any way trying to misrepresent the law? Care to explain where it says someone convicted of a firearms related crime will get their gun back? Or maybe it's just time to give it a rest since you haven't done anything other than prove me right.

    Still waiting for you to cite your proof of judges making rules up as they go along. And sorry, but TV shows don't count.

  18. #18
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    just a bit of a correction SOLUS. if your firearm is confiscated in NC. you will probably have to have a court order, And /or an act of God to get it back.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  19. #19
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    just a bit of a correction SOLUS. if your firearm is confiscated in NC. you will probably have to have a court order, And /or an act of God to get it back.
    of that i am sure papa bear and believe it or not, won't ask you for a cite since i am well aware it is the way of NC judical system...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 10-02-2013 at 06:57 PM.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    of that i am sure papa bear and believe it or not, won't ask you for a cite since i am well aware it is the way of NC judical system...

    ipse
    It5hink i could cite i know of dozens of cases where this has happened. one recently in Rural Hall
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  21. #21
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    While I have a CHP, I prefer to OC. I was very anxious for the Oct 1st changes to go into effect and I have been curious as to what they would mean for OC (if anything). I've read through the debate here and I decided to check the writing of the law.

    Let's start with the way things always had been, prior to October 1st. Both OC and CC had the restriction against places that served alcohol or charged admission:
    Quote Originally Posted by NC 14-269.3.
    Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    (b) This section shall not apply to the following:
    (1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14-269;
    (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment;
    (3) A person participating in the event, if he is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event; and
    (4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event. (1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4, c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)
    So what exactly did the law change? I am looking at the Signed into Law HB 937:

    Quote Originally Posted by HB 937
    SECTION 3. G.S. 14-269.3(b) reads as rewritten:
    "(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
    (1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14-269;G.S. 14-269.
    (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment;establishment.
    (3) A person participating in the event, if he the person is carrying a gun, rifle,
    or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization
    sponsoring the event; andevent.
    (4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or
    person or organization sponsoring the event.
    (5) A person carrying a handgun if the person has a valid concealed handgun
    permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a
    concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24
    , or is
    exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25. This
    subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on
    any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises
    has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed
    handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c)."
    The modified section says that you are exempt if you are carrying a handgun as long as you have a valid permit. Again, it does not say you are exempt only when carrying a concealed handgun. I am not a lawyer, I am merely reading the law here. Interestingly, it does mention handgun specifically, so you still can't OC a rifle into the bar/restaurant/theater.

    Why would OCing a handgun not be affected by this, given you have a valid CHP?

    I don't see why they didn't just take out that entire section (14-269.3) to be honest... (unless they wanted to make OCers pay for a CHP).
    Last edited by eriktherod; 10-18-2013 at 02:23 AM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Does the state keep the permit fee, or does the sheriff (LEA) keep the fee? In Mo, the sheriff keeps the fee, the state receives no money from permits.

  23. #23
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Does the state keep the permit fee, or does the sheriff (LEA) keep the fee? In Mo, the sheriff keeps the fee, the state receives no money from permits.
    Except for the fee to generate the permit document at the DMV (revenue department).

  24. #24
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Funny how these things can come down to a -comma-


    "As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State-owned rest area, at any State-owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State-owned hunting and fishing reservation."


    "As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun, (comma) with a concealed carry permit, at any State-owned rest area, at any State-owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State-owned hunting and fishing reservation."

    The second one (which I added a comma) changes the meaning. Now the question is, will the courts or the arresting officer claim the comma is assumed?

    Also class 1 Misdemeanor to carry into a restaurant, but to drink up to the legal limit and then go drive off in a 2 ton deadly vehicle is perfectly LEGAL. Sheesh.

  25. #25
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eriktherod View Post
    While I have a CHP, I prefer to OC. I was very anxious for the Oct 1st changes to go into effect and I have been curious as to what they would mean for OC (if anything). I've read through the debate here and I decided to check the writing of the law.

    Let's start with the way things always had been, prior to October 1st. Both OC and CC had the restriction against places that served alcohol or charged admission:

    So what exactly did the law change? I am looking at the Signed into Law HB 937:



    The modified section says that you are exempt if you are carrying a handgun as long as you have a valid permit. Again, it does not say you are exempt only when carrying a concealed handgun. I am not a lawyer, I am merely reading the law here. Interestingly, it does mention handgun specifically, so you still can't OC a rifle into the bar/restaurant/theater.

    Why would OCing a handgun not be affected by this, given you have a valid CHP?

    I don't see why they didn't just take out that entire section (14-269.3) to be honest... (unless they wanted to make OCers pay for a CHP).
    GRNC wrote the legislation, it supports the pay to carry scheme which benefits the CC training industry, which many of the members of GRNC.
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