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Thread: Hospitals are gun free zones?

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    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Hospitals are gun free zones?

    Reading the latest VDCL Alert ran across this article which implies that ALL Hospitals are no carry zones. I might have missed that in my review of the Virginia Code because I am positive there have been threads about carrying at hospitals and clinics. Can someone please provide the cite so I can see what else I might have missed?

    . "No concealed guns" signs at Halifax Regional Hospital locations
    **************************************************

    VCDL member "Robert" sent me this:

    --

    I have seen at several locations that are owned by the Halifax Regional
    Hospital, signs that say "no concealed guns." I would like to get the word out
    that **guns** are not allowed on hospital property.

    The new owners put these signs up and the signs could be misleading as someone
    carring concealed would believe it is alright to carry openly, as Virginia is a
    open carry state. I asked one nice lady at the office where they take payments
    for doctors about the signs and she said that they did not like them because
    everyone knows that guns are not allowed on hospital property and a lot of
    questions are being asked. So i hope that no one is arrested for misreading
    these signs.



    Thanks,
    Bill

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    Most are

    A Bon Secours and HCA hospitals are and have been "Gun Free" slaughter zones as long as I can remember.

    I worked security for Bon Secours and helped write the SOP and policies for Chippenham before they were bought by HCA. Nothing has changed since then.
    Last edited by va_tazdad; 09-27-2013 at 05:39 PM.

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    Re: Hospitals are gun free zones?

    I've carried at obici hospital, and maryview I think it was. Nothing was said.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk 2

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    I'm unaware of any law prohibiting carry in Virginia hospitals.

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    The signs have no force in law in Virginia. You could be charged with trespass if asked to leave and you don't comply. Standard private property rules.
    Hospitals are not enumberated as a prohibited place (such as courthouses) in the law.

    Might get a little confusing if it's a publicly owned hospital, but I don't know if there are any of those around anymore. They would presumable be covered under preemption.
    Last edited by zoom6zoom; 09-27-2013 at 09:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpguy View Post
    I've carried at obici hospital, and maryview I think it was. Nothing was said.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk 2
    I'm a Sentara employee and unfortunately ALL Sentara hospitals are technically "gun free zones." However, I do know that there are a couple Sentara hospitals that do not always enforce the company's corporate policy (Careplex and Obici being the ones I hear about most). Personally I hate coming to work (Norfolk General) unarmed, but my mortgage has to get paid and currently this is my only choice.

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    Re: Hospitals are gun free zones?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justine View Post
    I'm a Sentara employee and unfortunately ALL Sentara hospitals are technically "gun free zones." However, I do know that there are a couple Sentara hospitals that do not always enforce the company's corporate policy (Careplex and Obici being the ones I hear about most). Personally I hate coming to work (Norfolk General) unarmed, but my mortgage has to get paid and currently this is my only choice.
    Nothing to be ashamed of my friend.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The VA-ALERT was poorly worded. There is no law in Virginia specifically covering hospitals. Although I was unable to convince the rent-a-cop of this at the Stafford Hospital a couple years ago, who insisted it was a state law. I suspect they got their rent-a-cop certificate from K-Mart.

    Having said that, other than the few odd reports you see here of policies not being enforced, I'm not personally aware of any hospital that endorses OC or CC.

    TFred

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Have to be careful with some hospitals because INOVA fairfax is considered VCU campus as well. I work for a medical equipment company and have been to almost every hospital in VA and the majority have signs up.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    I'd be surprised to find ANY hospital that doesn't have a "NO GUNS" policy for their property, even if they don't use signage.

    Oddly unique, Sentara Careplex has signage advising that you can go to the security office and lock your gun up during your visit. So you can have a gun, until you can't.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    When I had my babies at St. Francis (chesterfield) I saw no gun free zone laws in all the times I was there. I could be wrong, but I am about 50/50 sure that my husband was carrying when our youngest was born. I was otherwise occupied, so I did not ask.

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    He may have been carrying

    Quote Originally Posted by MamabearCali View Post
    When I had my babies at St. Francis (chesterfield) I saw no gun free zone laws in all the times I was there. I could be wrong, but I am about 50/50 sure that my husband was carrying when our youngest was born. I was otherwise occupied, so I did not ask.
    But not with the hospital's approval. Bon Secours policy is no weapons of any kind. I used to work security at St. Marys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    But not with the hospital's approval. Bon Secours policy is no weapons of any kind. I used to work security at St. Marys.
    Not posted.....you don't want someone to carry you have to let someone know. I am not a mind reader. It was not in an of the literature that I was given and it was not on any wall so....tough noogies. I don't need someone's permission to carry. Just cause it is policy does not make it law.

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    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
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    I have carried in the Woodbridge Sentara several times and no comment. No signs that I could see.

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    I told mgmt the same thing

    Quote Originally Posted by MamabearCali View Post
    Not posted.....you don't want someone to carry you have to let someone know. I am not a mind reader. It was not in an of the literature that I was given and it was not on any wall so....tough noogies. I don't need someone's permission to carry. Just cause it is policy does not make it law.
    On private properety, you do need permission to carry.

    Nothing was posted when I worked there but they said it was "published" policy. (Like patients read the crap they hand out.)

    Policy does not make it law, but enforceable, as the hospital is private property. We used to escort anyone that refused to disarm out of the building.

    NOT MY IDEA, but that is what we did. Not trying to argue, just explaining what their policy is and what we did.
    Last edited by va_tazdad; 10-01-2013 at 12:41 AM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    On private properety, you do need permission to carry.
    Maybe this is nit-picking in the weeds, but I would take exception to this wording. A lawyer-type might successfully argue it is correct, but I believe it reveals a mind-set for which we are our own worst enemy. That horse has been dead a long time, so I'll not beat on it again, but I would very much rather state your assertion this way:

    "On private property, one may be denied permission to carry."

    I don't think anyone, other than the most vehemently anti-gun folks, would believe it reasonable to expect every gun carrier to seek out the explicit permission of every private property owner prior to entering that property.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 10-01-2013 at 01:52 AM. Reason: Tweaking

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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    On private properety, you do need permission to carry.

    Nothing was posted when I worked there but they said it was "published" policy. (Like patients read the crap they hand out.)

    Policy does not make it law, but enforceable, as the hospital is private property. We used to escort anyone that refused to disarm out of the building.

    NOT MY IDEA, but that is what we did. Not trying to argue, just explaining what their policy is and what we did.


    If you don't want a person to carry on your property have to inform them. Like I said....no signs....I carry on. I don't ask walmarts permission or krogers permission to carry a gun. Permission may be denied to carry, but a private property has to notify a person reasonably of their demands. A person telling me on a blog that he has escorted people out is not notification, it is hear say.

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    Oh really??

    Quote Originally Posted by MamabearCali View Post
    If you don't want a person to carry on your property have to inform them. Like I said....no signs....I carry on. I don't ask walmarts permission or krogers permission to carry a gun. Permission may be denied to carry, but a private property has to notify a person reasonably of their demands. A person telling me on a blog that he has escorted people out is not notification, it is hear say.
    The last idiot that accused me of hearsay in court was ordered by the judge to apologize. Stating what somebody else did would have been hearsay. She never did that again.

    All I was trying to do was explain what I had experienced at various hospitals.

    Hearsay, not a chance.

    Conversation over. Have a nice life!
    Last edited by va_tazdad; 10-02-2013 at 03:00 AM.

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    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justine View Post
    I'm a Sentara employee and unfortunately ALL Sentara hospitals are technically "gun free zones." However, I do know that there are a couple Sentara hospitals that do not always enforce the company's corporate policy (Careplex and Obici being the ones I hear about most). Personally I hate coming to work (Norfolk General) unarmed, but my mortgage has to get paid and currently this is my only choice.

    I have been in a couple of Sentara hospitals and am unaware of any policy on guns because there was nothing posted that addressed firearms, either on the door or posted on the wall. Those locations were probably the "couple" of Sentara hospital that don't enforce the policy.

    Totally understand having to pay the bills. Company's (not just yours) are much more restrictive on their employees than on the patrons or customers. I never quite understood that, although for my company, I assume it is due to the high number of managers with absolutely no management skill, keeping the employees from being armed prevents what would reduce the management turnover rate. (insert irony here)

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    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    The VA-ALERT was poorly worded. There is no law in Virginia specifically covering hospitals. Although I was unable to convince the rent-a-cop of this at the Stafford Hospital a couple years ago, who insisted it was a state law. I suspect they got their rent-a-cop certificate from K-Mart.

    Having said that, other than the few odd reports you see here of policies not being enforced, I'm not personally aware of any hospital that endorses OC or CC.

    TFred
    thanks TFRED

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    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
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    Carried yesterday at the Woodbridge Sentara with no problems. Had to remove my shoes and take off my sidearm (with pancake holster) to be weighed and no one ran around frantically...

    And yes, Ed, I had my recorder going all day!!!
    "Just because I'm paranoid does not mean they are not out to get me"
    NRA Lifetime Member

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamabearCali View Post
    If you don't want a person to carry on your property have to inform them. Like I said....no signs....I carry on. I don't ask walmarts permission or krogers permission to carry a gun. Permission may be denied to carry, but a private property has to notify a person reasonably of their demands. A person telling me on a blog that he has escorted people out is not notification, it is hear say.
    Uh...Taz is one of us, not the enemy. He just gave his personal experience of what the Hospital did.

    This isn't a blog BTW.

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    If you say so....he specifically said my husband carried without permission and all I have stated repeatedly that there are no signs that said so.

    One person telling me his experience on a forum is not the same thing as a sign on a door. It is one persons word/experience against another's (which was the simple definition of hear say I was taught). IANAL, so whatever.


    Perhaps it is the political climate, but you guys are really amped up. Y'all took offense where there was no offense intended.

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamabearCali View Post
    r.


    Perhaps it is the political climate, but you guys are really amped up. Y'all took offense where there was no offense intended.
    No offense taken, I was just clearing the air.

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    Not directed at any particular user/poster here - just kind of a consolidation of collective thinking on the matter.

    We share information and experiences with the desired goal of informing others where carrying a gun has been found to be not a problem and where there have been less than satisfactory situations.

    VCDL maintains a Gun Owner Unfriendly Business list.
    http://www.vcdl.org/gue-intro

    There is also a Pro and Anti Gun Business Database available.
    http://friendorfoe.us/

    Simply sharing "it happened to me" tales gets the word out. When the situation is negative, following through with upper management has been shown in many cases to be beneficial in turning the business around.

    There is a general attitude amongst members here that if our legally carried, defensive handgun is not acceptable, then neither we nor our money will go there. This has been reduced to "No Guns = No Money".

    One of my former favorite breakfast places no longer allows OC - I could CC there as they are tolerant of that, but in the interest of solidarity and standing together as one. I won't compromise my personal standards to that degree.

    Still, no one is going to excommunicate you from the church or not let you sing in the choir if you don't follow the preachings percisely.....though someone might shake their finger at you if you are too flaggerant about it
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-03-2013 at 06:08 AM. Reason: Cleaned up syntax
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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