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Is Open Carry tactically wise?

Infantryman

New member
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Messages
7
Location
Goldsboro
I open carry for mainly two reasons; self defense, and I don't have a CCW as of yet. There is a lot of discussion among all carriers both types, concealed and open. Here is the dilemma I find myself in.

1. While OC may deter potential attacks, which cannot be certainly known, just speculated and assumed (unless there was a great amount of evidence such as them pulling a weapon, seeing a gun on you and running without you even drawing). It may also make you the first target. In any situation, open or concealed, once you draw your gun, you are making yourself the target of the bad guys fire, especially in a store scenario. That goes for both open and concealed. However, a lot of robberies in stores happen once the bad guy approaches the counter for instance. Say he's standing behind you with his buddy. He sees a chance to go ahead and get rid of the threat, and shoots you before you even realize what is going on.

To me, it seems that a conceal carried fire arm doesn't make you the 'target' as quickly as an open carried fire arm does in any situation unless the bad guy knows you are concealing. What do you guys think of this? Remember, I open carry, and I love it. It's comfortable too, and I too have speculated on certain peoples intent. Such as eve last night when a car of 4 men pulled up behind me while I pumped gas, saw my gun, and sped off. I don't assume that I was going to be a potential target, as I still utilize a military style medium fade haircut, and wear nice clothing. As well all know as open carries, the first thought of most people is "He is a cop!", so it could be that a lot of these people may be in possession of drugs or something as simple as expired tags and they suspect a warrant.

2. On the other hand, what an OC'd firearm can do is keep you from being a potential victim, but giving the illusion that you are not armed. People assuming you are a cop is a good thing. Tricking someone into engaging you while you are armed almost forces you to act, which no one actually wants to do if it can be avoided. To me, conceal carry has the element of surprise, the focus can and will most likely shift to other victims in the area, giving you time to draw and fire before maybe even they realize they are shot. But again, you can be in a one on one situation where you will be given no choice, and maybe in the case of open carry, simply having it would cause the bad guys to just 'skip' you in an attack and leave.

But anyways, what do you guys think? Does OC show your cards? Is it viable for self defense?
 
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Infantryman

New member
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Messages
7
Location
Goldsboro
Ah yes, all the usual old arguments, nothing new here.

Start reading: http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/7230-open-carry-argument.html

I didn't make an argument. Overall I asked a question that I've never really engaged in conversation with. In order to obtain information and possibly educated opinion.

Edit: Also, I clearly lined out my concern for concealing a firearm, meaning I am torn between the two. If this is going to turn into a flame war defending something I didn't attack, I'd rather not be apart of it.
 
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beejie21

New member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
5
Location
Jacksonville, NC
I believe both open and concealed carry are definitely viable for self defense. At least for me, it depends on the situation whether I'll concealed carry or open carry. Generally, if I'm going to be in a highly trafficked area (mall, store, movies, etc) where I'll be in close contact with many individuals, I don't want to telegraph anything to anyone. If a shady situation develops I want to be able to have the options open to either get the hell outta Dodge, or, if the situation warrants, move to a tactically superior location and escalate force to neutralize the offender. I feel that were I to be OCing in that situation, they would likely perceive my visible firearm as an escalation of force, regardless of whether I'd made a move to draw or not. This could be bad news if they decide to start hurling lead at me with innocents behind them. Makes it a legally precarious situation if I am forced to engage. Also, I think it leaves me somewhat vulnerable to somebody, either innocent or otherwise, grabbing the firearm from my holster with that many people packed together. That's a lot of hands to keep an eye on.

However if I'm on my/family's/friends land or moving about in rural areas (mountains, desert, forest, etc.) I'm a lot more likely to run into aggressive wildlife. That wildlife wouldn't comprehend the black thing on my hip as a threat and it would be tactically wise to minimize the time it would take to get my weapon on-target and into action, ere-go I'd OC.

That being said, I open carried my Glock 19 in every situation that I could before I got my CC permit. Even if the bad guy sees my firearm first, it still gives me an option that I wouldn't have otherwise and there's still the chance that he might not see it until it's too late for him. Every once in a while, I would have to explain my actions to law enforcement due to a skittish individual. But, lucky for me, Utah is a relatively pro-gun state. As long as I was respectful and mature in explaining my actions and reasoning, they would let me go about my business.

However, I don't believe I'd ever be able to justify slinging my AK over my shoulder and going to the Mall with the local law. Not only do I feel that the weapon is ill-fit for that urban situation, I believe that I'd have a LOT more difficult time justifying it to the Police. I'd pretty much be begging for problems/unnecessary court visits/lawyer fees. Just my .02. I'm sure others have different opinions and that they work just as well for their unique environments.
 
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stealthyeliminator

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
3,100
Location
Texas
I believe both open and concealed carry are definitely viable for self defense. At least for me, it depends on the situation whether I'll concealed carry or open carry. Generally, if I'm going to be in a highly trafficked area (mall, store, movies, etc) where I'll be in close contact with many individuals, I don't want to telegraph anything to anyone. If a shady situation develops I want to be able to have the options open to either get the hell outta Dodge, or, if the situation warrants, move to a tactically superior location and escalate force to neutralize the offender. I feel that were I to be OCing in that situation, they would likely perceive my visible firearm as an escalation of force, regardless of whether I'd made a move to draw or not. This could be bad news if they decide to start hurling lead at me with innocents behind them. Makes it a legally precarious situation if I am forced to engage. Also, I think it leaves me somewhat vulnerable to somebody, either innocent or otherwise, grabbing the firearm from my holster with that many people packed together. That's a lot of hands to keep an eye on.

However if I'm on my/family's/friends land or moving about in rural areas (mountains, desert, forest, etc.) I'm a lot more likely to run into aggressive wildlife. That wildlife wouldn't comprehend the black thing on my hip as a threat and it would be tactically wise to minimize the time it would take to get my weapon on-target and into action, ere-go I'd OC.

That being said, I open carried my Glock 19 in every situation that I could before I got my CC permit. Even if the bad guy sees my firearm first, it still gives me an option that I wouldn't have otherwise and there's still the chance that he might not see it until it's too late for him. Every once in a while, I would have to explain my actions to law enforcement due to a skittish individual. But, lucky for me, Utah is a relatively pro-gun state. As long as I was respectful and mature in explaining my actions and reasoning, they would let me go about my business.

However, I don't believe I'd ever be able to justify slinging my AK over my shoulder and going to the Mall with the local law. Not only do I feel that the weapon is ill-fit for that urban situation, I believe that I'd have a LOT more difficult time justifying it to the Police. I'd pretty much be begging for problems/unnecessary court visits/lawyer fees. Just my .02. I'm sure others have different opinions and that they work just as well for their unique environments.

As long as you treat police officers as judges to which you must justify your legal actions, you're setting yourself up to have your rights violated. You're also fostering the creation of precedent that could lead to the rights of others being violated.
 

beejie21

New member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
5
Location
Jacksonville, NC
As long as you treat police officers as judges to which you must justify your legal actions, you're setting yourself up to have your rights violated. You're also fostering the creation of precedent that could lead to the rights of others being violated.

Maybe. But, I currently am the only source of income for my family. All it would really take is one rogue Police Officer to put my family at financial risk. I definitely can't afford the fees associated with retaining a lawyer to represent me in court. Also, I'm in the military. Even if I were able to fend off charges in civilian court, I'd then have to turn around and deal with either an NJP or possibly a court martial. That's too much risk for me and mine for little to no reward.

If you have the means to fortify the precedent, more power to you. I don't.

I make it my practice to minimize all risk that I can. That includes physical, mental, spiritual, financial, legal, etc.

When my situation changes and I have the money in reserve to control or negate the associated risks, I will happily join you in demonstration of our God-Given right to keep and bear arms and our right to defend our life and liberty.

As I stated at the end of my initial post, I'm sure others have different opinions and that they work just as well for their unique environments. I guess I should have incorporated that they work just as well for their unique situations, as well. Don't be so quick to judge.
 

CDT COX

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2010
Messages
277
Location
NC
Criminals are cowards, lowlife scum, stupid, and a whole list of degrading terms but they grasp the basic risk/reward line of thinking. If they are in line behind you about to commit an armed robbery, they aren't gonna turn it into a murder 'just because'. They'll wait for you to leave, then rob the place.
 

solus

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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
lets see handy hamlet how did you word your comments on the Wisconsin thread Hello all, Just moved to Wisconsin from Nevada...oh right i copy'd and pasted it...

quote
Laughable if it wasn't so seriously pathetic.

This place is ripe with trolls. Too bad.

Shoo troll. Go away now
unquote.

your comments, as are the comments from texas unnecessary as the OP asked a fair question by wanted to discuss the subject and your dismissal like you are speaking to some peon is unwarranted and uncalled for...so to quote you again...'shoo troll. go away now' added for emphasis: some village is calling you home.
 
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bc.cruiser

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Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
786
Location
Fayetteville NC
I didn't make an argument. Overall I asked a question that I've never really engaged in conversation with. In order to obtain information and possibly educated opinion.

Edit: Also, I clearly lined out my concern for concealing a firearm, meaning I am torn between the two. If this is going to turn into a flame war defending something I didn't attack, I'd rather not be apart of it.

OK, you didn't make an argument. FTG-05 gave you a reference to use to get answers to your question. Go there or search back through this forum for the same questions and opinions.

Then you can get into revolver vs. semi-auto, holster type, etc.

The question of OC vs. CC does not apply to a number of us in that we choose not to get a CHP because we choose not to ask permission for a mode of carry.
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
OK, you didn't make an argument. FTG-05 gave you a reference to use to get answers to your question. Go there or search back through this forum for the same questions and opinions.

Then you can get into revolver vs. semi-auto, holster type, etc.

The question of OC vs. CC does not apply to a number of us in that we choose not to get a CHP because we choose not to ask permission for a mode of carry.
Don't forget the condition 1 debate...
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
HandyHamlet said:
End of pointless thread.

To be more specific...

Chevy or Ford?
Mac or PC?
Nikon or Canon?
Rice or Hardley?

IOS or ANDROID?
AMD or INTEL?
GLOCK or XD?
Hornady or PDX?
Pizza Hut or Dominos??????

I like were this thread is going :rolleyes:

AR or AK? (or Mosin Nagant:lol::http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm)
Steel or polymer?
9 or .45?
Kydex or leather?
Coke or Pepsi?
The list goes on...
OT, would this thread be better off locked? Debating whether or not to bother Grapeshot with it.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Let me try to clear something up for the OP. You cannot draw and shoot UNTIL your life is in imminent danger! The surprise is when you find your poop in the wind with a gun already pointed at you, and you then have to unconceal and draw, all because the BG saw you as a victim just like any other unarmed target.

The real surprise is realizing you should have been wearing depends...
 

autosurgeon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
3,831
Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
CC by definition is a offensive tactic vs a defensive tactic. OC is by definition a defensive tactic vs and offensive tactic.

Since we cannot preemptively strike a potential criminal and must wait for them to make the first move we are by definition in a defensive posture and there is no good reason to use an offensive tactic while in that posture.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2
 

HandyHamlet

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
2,772
Location
Terra, Sol

Last time I checked this was an "Open Carry" Forum.

Guy.



You want to speculate, pontificate, defecate, assume, and guess? By all means, blather away. 'Cause until you are staring down the barrel of a gun? You got nuthin'.
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
CC by definition is a offensive tactic vs a defensive tactic. OC is by definition a defensive tactic vs and offensive tactic.

Since we cannot preemptively strike a potential criminal and must wait for them to make the first move we are by definition in a defensive posture and there is no good reason to use an offensive tactic while in that posture.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

as in the finest tradition of this forum and as mandated by protocol (forum rules) i do not suppose you can provide citation for those fine definitions you spouted off can you?

and your use of the royal 'we' ...are you referring to NC statute which i presume you are extremely familiar with living in Michigan?
 
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