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Thread: Gun Serial numbers.

  1. #1
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    Question Gun Serial numbers.

    Can a Leo run your guns serial number just because you are carrying a gun? If so, would this not be a defacto gun registration if the Police dept. kept a record of what names went with what serial number.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz272 View Post
    Can a Leo run your guns serial number just because you are carrying a gun? If so, would this not be a defacto gun registration if the Police dept. kept a record of what names went with what serial number.
    No, they cannot.
    Some see running the numbers as a registration scheme, some have said police departments don't have the ability to keep records.
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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    No, they cannot.
    Some see running the numbers as a registration scheme, some have said police departments don't have the ability to keep records.
    They can NOT make a data base,,, It is the law!!

    BUT,,,, If a cop calls in your name, and number,,, IT WILL,,, go on a list, in a computer!!!

    It will be in a system, linked to other systems, linking to all the other systems,
    all knowing that a guy (you) have a gun (number),,,,

    WhATS NOT TO LIKE ABOUT THAT?
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    I agree, no they cannot. I do not know of a provision in Wisconsin law creating/allowing/permitting such a database, nor a provision for acquiring serial numbers.

    Like all assertions of non-existence, though, proof requires examination of the entire universe of discourse; here all Wisconsin and sub-division laws. If you know of such a law, please cite it so that we may study it.
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    I believe that a member of LE unholstering a citizens firearm for the purpose of running serial numbers is a violation of our 4th amendment.

    And once the serial numbers are run, doesn't that go on a list of being a "Crime Gun"?

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    Seems it would be a clear violation of our 4A rights.

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    Keep in mind that in some states a LEO can disarm you for "officer safety". Once that is done, the serial number of the firearm is "in plain view" and there is nothing to stop them from running the serial number.
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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    Keep in mind that in some states a LEO can disarm you for "officer safety". Once that is done, the serial number of the firearm is "in plain view" and there is nothing to stop them from running the serial number.
    Legally they cannot in WI.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Want to see info that they have? A FOIA request for all records held by a local PD for records that contain gun serial numbers. Find out first...then you have ammo to argue with.

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Legally they cannot in WI.
    I gathered that from this and other conversations here. Unfortunately, that is not the case in Ohio.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    I gathered that from this and other conversations here. Unfortunately, that is not the case in Ohio.
    Perhaps that is why the question was posted in the Wisconsin sub-forum.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    They can NOT make a data base,,, It is the law!!

    BUT,,,, If a cop calls in your name, and number,,, IT WILL,,, go on a list, in a computer!!!
    This is half true. The stop information will be put in the dispatch log as the officer calls it in. But it isn't a "list" per se.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    It will be in a system, linked to other systems, linking to all the other systems,
    all knowing that a guy (you) have a gun (number),,,,
    This is not true.
    Logged activity on an agencies system stays within that system. The only way information gets shared is if it is released in a BOLO alert via NCIC. Piddly things like F.I. stops are not entered into it.

    This is also why if I pull you over and give you a verbal/written warning another officer on my department will know about it if he pulls you over later, but an officer with a different agency will not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    <snip>
    This is not true.
    Logged activity on an agencies system stays within that system. The only way information gets shared is if it is released in a BOLO alert via NCIC. Piddly things like F.I. stops are not entered into it.

    This is also why if I pull you over and give you a verbal/written warning another officer on my department will know about it if he pulls you over later, but an officer with a different agency will not.
    NSA popped into my head after I read the above.

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Perhaps that is why the question was posted in the Wisconsin sub-forum.
    Which of course is why I prefaced my statement as I did. My post was intended to be sure they were aware that simply crossing into another state could change the situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutczak
    I believe that a member of LE unholstering a citizens firearm for the purpose of running serial numbers is a violation of our 4th amendment.
    Unless they have RAS that it's stolen.

    And once the serial numbers are run, doesn't that go on a list of being a "Crime Gun"?
    Yep. I own 3 "crime guns".
    A worthless, corrupted term, just like "high-capacity magazine" (when referring to normal-capacity ones which are sold with the pistol by the manufacturer) and "assault weapon" (when referring to anything which is not a military-grade select-fire rifle).
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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Legally they cannot in WI.
    Yet they still do it. Even our DoJ FAQ makes it clear that LEOs will regularly violate your 4th Amendment rights:

    Quote Originally Posted by Page 27 of the DoJ FAQ
    In certain circumstances, a law enforcement officer may ask to take temporary possession of the weapon or may seize the weapon during interaction with the individual to ensure the safety of the officer and others or to secure the weapon as evidence. The officer will return the weapon at the end of the stop unless the individual is placed under arrest for a violation of the law that allows the weapon to be seized.
    Source

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoTolerance View Post
    Yet they still do it. Even our DoJ FAQ makes it clear that LEOs will regularly violate your 4th Amendment rights: Source
    Ask is the key word in there. They cannot demand/steal it off of you.
    Last edited by protias; 09-30-2013 at 06:01 PM.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Ask is the key word in there. They cannot demand/steal it off of you.
    Good point. An "ask" request must be refused because it will not be properly documented. Make the cop document your non-consensual detention arrest prerequisite to arrogating your rights. Then impoverish him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post


    Yep. I own 3 "crime guns".
    Didn't you mean you lost three crime guns in a kayaking accident ?? wink wink nudge nudge
    Last edited by Yetiman; 09-30-2013 at 06:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    Keep in mind that in some states a LEO can disarm you for "officer safety". Once that is done, the serial number of the firearm is "in plain view" and there is nothing to stop them from running the serial number.
    No state can empower the police to do what the Fourth Amendment forbids, i.e., detaining you absent reasonable suspicion of crime, or patting you down to look for - or to seize weapons - absent a reasonable belief that you are both armed and presently dangerous. Terry v. Ohio.

    Seizing a firearm to look at serial numbers also violated the Fourth Amendment. Arizona v. Hicks.

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    I suspect that "presently dangerous" is claimed by the mere presence of a gun. I mean, guns are dangerous.....right?

  22. #22
    Regular Member Sorcice's Avatar
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    Gun Serial numbers.

    If they flat out can't why did the Appleton Leo's run them multiple times?

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    Wishful thinking. What's it called, doing the same things over and over while expecting different results?
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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    You forgot a major point.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    No state can empower the police to do what the Fourth Amendment forbids and the US Supreme Court as set president against in multiple decisions, i.e., detaining you absent reasonable suspicion of crime, or patting you down to look for - or to seize weapons - absent a reasonable belief that you are both armed and presently dangerous. Terry v. Ohio.

    Seizing a firearm to look at serial numbers also violated the Fourth Amendment. Arizona v. Hicks.
    Last edited by F350; 10-01-2013 at 05:08 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member NoTolerance's Avatar
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    Re: Gun Serial numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by protias View Post
    Ask is the key word in there. They cannot demand/steal it off of you.
    Someone should tell them that.

    The real problem is, who is going to press the issue by filing a lawsuit for what amounts to a "temporary inconvenience"?

    Even the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Department are temporarily seizing lawfully carried firearms during traffic stops.

    It's crap and it needs to stop, but I just don't see anyone taking on the expense to fight it - especially when the firearm is returned within minutes.

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