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Thread: Federal "Domestic Violence" Law to be Clarified?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Federal "Domestic Violence" Law to be Clarified?

    See other thread. SCOTUS to review an overturned conviction for possession after DV conviction. Am I correct to assume this may resolve some questions about Virginia law as well as Tennessee?

    TFred

    ETA: If the SCOTUS upholds this ruling, Obama and Bloomberg are going to be insanely angry!
    Last edited by TFred; 10-02-2013 at 02:06 AM.

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    I'm pretty sure that Va doesn't have a domestic violence law that pretains to firearm purchases or possession. They have to follow the requirements of Federal law, and in doing so they already have to prove force/violence on a domestic or assault before they can deny you the purchase of a fiream.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Virginia prohibits anyone subject to a domestic violence protective order

    Quote Originally Posted by tkd2006 View Post
    I'm pretty sure that Va doesn't have a domestic violence law that pretains to firearm purchases or possession. They have to follow the requirements of Federal law, and in doing so they already have to prove force/violence on a domestic or assault before they can deny you the purchase of a fiream.
    Note accurate - there are some restrictions pertaining to domestic violence - including loss of CHP.

    Virginia prohibits anyone subject to a domestic violence protective order, including an ex parte order, from purchasing or transporting a firearm while the order is in effect. It does not prohibit firearm possession by such individuals.1 Such orders are available to family and household members of the abuser.2

    They are also available to victims of stalking, but only if a warrant has been issued for the arrest of the stalker.3

    In 2011, Virginia amended the part of this law that applies to persons subject to preliminary protective orders for the protection of a child, so that the defendant is only prohibited from purchasing or transporting a firearm if a court has made a finding of abuse or neglect.4

    http://smartgunlaws.org/domestic-vio...s-in-virginia/

    VA state law is similar to Federal law, but says that if you have a protective order against your abuser, your abuser cannot buy or transport a gun, but s/he may still have a gun in their possession.
    http://www.womenslaw.org/laws_state_...&state_code=VA
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    See other thread. SCOTUS to review an overturned conviction for possession after DV conviction. Am I correct to assume this may resolve some questions about Virginia law as well as Tennessee?

    TFred

    ETA: If the SCOTUS upholds this ruling, Obama and Bloomberg are going to be insanely angry!
    In a word? No.

    The case involves a DV conviction that, by state law definition in the state where it occurred, no violence took place.

    Obama and Bloomberg could care less, as the SCOTUS decision will apply to this case and no other. The Lautenberg Amendment is and will remain safe.

    This case will have even less impact than the class action (for lack of a better description) that effected folks who took plea agreements on DV charges without being advised of thei consequences of doing so. Lots of cops got their guns back because of that - but then found out that even though their DV conviction was overturned there was no way they could get past the background check because the feds had, and still have, no method for restoring 2A rights.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    In a word? No.This case will have even less impact than the class action (for lack of a better description) that effected folks who took plea agreements on DV charges without being advised of thei consequences of doing so. Lots of cops got their guns back because of that - but then found out that even though their DV conviction was overturned there was no way they could get past the background check because the feds had, and still have, no method for restoring 2A rights.
    Wait, what? I'm not familiar with this lawsuit but what you've said makes no sense. They got their guns back but they can't pass a NICS check?

    Either they had their rights restored or they didn't. I'm confused.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppealPlay View Post
    Wait, what? I'm not familiar with this lawsuit but what you've said makes no sense. They got their guns back but they can't pass a NICS check?

    Either they had their rights restored or they didn't. I'm confused.
    In a way it's like an 18 year old. He can own a gun and OC it in Va and even buy one FTF....but he can't pass a background check to buy one from a dealer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Note accurate - there are some restrictions pertaining to domestic violence - including loss of CHP.

    Virginia prohibits anyone subject to a domestic violence protective order, including an ex parte order, from purchasing or transporting a firearm while the order is in effect. It does not prohibit firearm possession by such individuals.1 Such orders are available to family and household members of the abuser.2

    They are also available to victims of stalking, but only if a warrant has been issued for the arrest of the stalker.3

    In 2011, Virginia amended the part of this law that applies to persons subject to preliminary protective orders for the protection of a child, so that the defendant is only prohibited from purchasing or transporting a firearm if a court has made a finding of abuse or neglect.4

    http://smartgunlaws.org/domestic-vio...s-in-virginia/

    VA state law is similar to Federal law, but says that if you have a protective order against your abuser, your abuser cannot buy or transport a gun, but s/he may still have a gun in their possession.
    http://www.womenslaw.org/laws_state_...&state_code=VA
    Actually i was only refering to the comment made by T Fred. Virginia does not have a domestic violence law IE misd crime of domestic violence as it pretains to the federal form. I never commented about Protection Orders which are something totally different. In Virginia when someone has been convicted of assault, one must prove force was used before they are denied being able to purchase a firearm this is along with proving victim relationship as well. This all came about because of White vs Commonwealth.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkd2006 View Post
    Actually i was only refering to the comment made by T Fred. Virginia does not have a domestic violence law IE misd crime of domestic violence as it pretains to the federal form. I never commented about Protection Orders which are something totally different. In Virginia when someone has been convicted of assault, one must prove force was used before they are denied being able to purchase a firearm this is along with proving victim relationship as well. This all came about because of White vs Commonwealth.
    Family Violence/Domestic Violence
    http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/courts/...lyviolence.htm

    In Virginia, a person commits family abuse (also called domestic violence) by committing any act against a family or household member that involves violence, force, or threats, and results in physical injury or places the family or household member in fear or injury or harm. Both stalking and sexual assault can constitute family abuse.
    http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...charges-penalt

    Domestic Violence: (AG opinion)
    Domestic violence is a pattern of behavior, and a method of control. It is a means of establishing a hierarchy of power within a relationship, in which one partner dominates the other through use of physical violence and/or psychological abuse. Family violence includes five primary categories of abusive behaviors: physical violence, emotional abuse, sexual assault, economic control and neglect.
    http://www.oag.state.va.us/Programs%..._Overview.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    In a way it's like an 18 year old. He can own a gun and OC it in Va and even buy one FTF....but he can't pass a background check to buy one from a dealer.
    Ah, okay. I get it. That would suck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Family Violence/Domestic Violence
    http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/courts/...lyviolence.htm

    In Virginia, a person commits family abuse (also called domestic violence) by committing any act against a family or household member that involves violence, force, or threats, and results in physical injury or places the family or household member in fear or injury or harm. Both stalking and sexual assault can constitute family abuse.
    http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com...charges-penalt

    Domestic Violence: (AG opinion)
    Domestic violence is a pattern of behavior, and a method of control. It is a means of establishing a hierarchy of power within a relationship, in which one partner dominates the other through use of physical violence and/or psychological abuse. Family violence includes five primary categories of abusive behaviors: physical violence, emotional abuse, sexual assault, economic control and neglect.
    http://www.oag.state.va.us/Programs%..._Overview.html
    Well you seem to not understand what my point is. Virginia does not have a state law that says if you have been convicted of domestic violence/assault you can not own a weapon. There is only federal law/restriction for this while yes if buying in VA you must meet state and federal law.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkd2006 View Post
    Well you seem to not understand what my point is. Virginia does not have a state law that says if you have been convicted of domestic violence/assault you can not own a weapon. There is only federal law/restriction for this while yes if buying in VA you must meet state and federal law.
    Oh I understand your point quite well. I was expanding on the relevant issues.

    Further a criminal conviction will effect one's ability to own or carry a gun depending on the charge and the sentence - particularly think felony.

    "Criminal family abuse includes cases of domestic assault and battery when the perpetrator of the violence may be jailed or ordered to comply with various conditions if the defendant is found guilty".

    http://www.courts.state.va.us/courts.../violence.html

    Also a judge may impose special conditions at pretrial hearing - they often do. We have a case pending right now, wherein the defendant did nothing violent and has been ordered to not carry any weapons of any kind.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-04-2013 at 02:27 PM.
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    oops, posted to the wrong thread, so this is a copy and paste:

    Bullstuff. The author of that article is lying about the charge. There is no such thing as a "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" that does not involve force and violence.

    The Sup. Ct. is not going to do anything that ends the Frank Lautenberg ban on possession by those convicted of "misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence". The reason that provision does not apply is because the misdemeanor complained of in this case is not such an offense. Neither assault nor battery require proof of force and violence, which is the basis of the federal prohibition.

    Assault doesn't involve touching of any kind, and battery requires only the slightest touch if that touch is unprivileged, offensive, and done without legal cause, justification, or excuse. There's one case in which the driver of a car was the victim of a battery because a pedestrian didn't like how far he'd driven into a crosswalk before stopping, and slapped the hood of the guy's car. No force or violence against the driver at all. Patting a stranger's bottom in a crowded shopping mall is battery, but there's no requirement for force or violence.

    Ma Kettle whacking Pa upside the head with a frying pan would be a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence EXCEPT under Virginia law, such an offense would be tried in the Juvenile and Domestic Relations District Court ("J&DR"), a "court not of record", which only retains its files for ten years, and as to which the warrant would probably say "...that one Ma Kettle did, on or about October 1, 1933, assault and batter one Pa Kettle, a household partner, spouse, or family member, in violation of Virginia Code section 18.2-57.2." So there is almost never a record of such offenses in Virginia. The exception is where someone files a transcript of the evidence with the case, and there's testimony about actual force or violence, or where the case is appealed to the Circuit Court which is a court of record.

    There are a few cases in Virginia where this issue has been dealt with. The variation between what the law dictates and what the NCIS background check dictates is due to the failure of the NCIS people to follow the law.

    And what's this stuff about selling guns on the "black market"? Is Va. Gun Trader website the Virginia "black market"? Is there such a thing as a "black market", other than those operated by people employed by three-letter-agencies? If I sell an item of personal property to another resident of my state, am I engaged in a "black market" transaction? What a load of crap.
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    real insight

    I'm finally making a post on this forum cause I feel I can shed some light on this subject. I really enjoy the posts here and usually just observe and learn. However I feel I can be of benefit in this situation. Nine years ago a very naive and broke 21 year old pleaded guilty to 18.2-57.2 assault and battery against a family member then appealed the case to the circuit court only to plead guilty again based the on advice of a new court issued lawyer. The case was ridiculous to begin with but I'll spare you the details. After hearing about the results of united states v William White I enlisted the help of a lawyer named Richard Gardiner. He reviewed my case which still had all the evidence and determined there was no record of force and wrote a letter to Cpt Turner (head of firearms transactions) in Richmond VA. Mr Gardiner then told me to go to any gun shop of my preference and purchase a gun. That was two years ago and since I've received my CHP and can purchase a gun and pass any background check at any gun store. It all comes down to that record of force and there was a case called United States v Shepherd that outlines what a later court can consider. Most people covicted of 18.2-57.2 are not federally prohibited but not everyone. I would advise anyone questioning there ability to own a gun to seek Mr Gardiner for help.

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    The Honorable Richard Gardiner is now a General District Court Judge in Fairfax.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CX7 View Post
    I'm finally making a post on this forum cause I feel I can shed some light on this subject. I really enjoy the posts here and usually just observe and learn. ....
    Welcome to OCDO. Go to www.vcdl.org and join - or at least sign up for the free VA-ALERT newsletter. Come out to the gun shows and talk to the folks at the VCDL booth. Put Lobby Day (MLK Monday Hoilday in January) on your calendar now and come out to the General Assembly Building with us. Look for meet&greet events - they are usually stickied at the top of the Virginia forum page.

    Could you go into a bit more detail on the steps you and your attorney took to get to the point of not being subject to the Lautenberg Amendment? And could you pass a background check in any other state - if, for instance, you went to the Cabela's in PA to buy a rifle?

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Welcome to OCDO. Go to www.vcdl.org and join - or at least sign up for the free VA-ALERT newsletter. Come out to the gun shows and talk to the folks at the VCDL booth. Put Lobby Day (MLK Monday Hoilday in January) on your calendar now and come out to the General Assembly Building with us. Look for meet&greet events - they are usually stickied at the top of the Virginia forum page.

    Could you go into a bit more detail on the steps you and your attorney took to get to the point of not being subject to the Lautenberg Amendment? And could you pass a background check in any other state - if, for instance, you went to the Cabela's in PA to buy a rifle?

    stay safe.
    Thanks for the welcome! Well it was rather simple and surprisingly fast process. I looked on the VCDL website for an attorney that I thought could help me. I say Mr Gardiner on there and researched him. I read about how he went against the ATF and thought if anyone could help me this man could. I called his office and was shocked when they gave me his cell number. Once on the phone I told him how I got in the situation I did 8 years ago and that I even appealed to the circuit court. He told me to go to the circuit court and mail him clear copies of the judges order, warrant, and some other info. Two days after receiving my I info he called ans told me he that united states v white applies to my case and I'm not subject to the Lautenberg law. He then wrote a letter to Cpt. Turner who is head of the firearms transaction center in Richmond. The letter simply explained the case and why I was eligible. Cpt. Turner wrote Mr Gardiner back the next day and said they consider united states v white and will apply that to my background check. Later that week I went to the gun shop and bought a 9mm without issue and it took 2 days. Since I've received my CHP and purchased over 5 guns all at gun shops. My lawyer said he has helped others in my situation and his fee was very low..under $500. I should be able to purchase in other states cause I pass federal checks here in Virginia. Hope this info helps

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by CX7 View Post
    Thanks for the welcome! Well it was rather simple and surprisingly fast process. I looked on the VCDL website for an attorney that I thought could help me. I say Mr Gardiner on there and researched him. I read about how he went against the ATF and thought if anyone could help me this man could. I called his office and was shocked when they gave me his cell number. Once on the phone I told him how I got in the situation I did 8 years ago and that I even appealed to the circuit court. He told me to go to the circuit court and mail him clear copies of the judges order, warrant, and some other info. Two days after receiving my I info he called ans told me he that united states v white applies to my case and I'm not subject to the Lautenberg law. He then wrote a letter to Cpt. Turner who is head of the firearms transaction center in Richmond. The letter simply explained the case and why I was eligible. Cpt. Turner wrote Mr Gardiner back the next day and said they consider united states v white and will apply that to my background check. Later that week I went to the gun shop and bought a 9mm without issue and it took 2 days. Since I've received my CHP and purchased over 5 guns all at gun shops. My lawyer said he has helped others in my situation and his fee was very low..under $500. I should be able to purchase in other states cause I pass federal checks here in Virginia. Hope this info helps
    Glad your background check problems are now all cleared up!

    But dont be lulled into some unlawful sense of unconstrained freedom that none of us have.

    None of us than can pass a background check can go to ANOTHER STATE and buy a" hand gun" at a gun shop!!!

    You must be a resident of THAT STATE to buy a hand gun there...

    If not a resident of that state, the hand gun must be transferred to a FFL in your state,
    then transferred to you!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Regular Member AppealPlay's Avatar
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    I'm flummoxed by this concept of being able to possess a firearm but not being able to purchase at a gun store because of the background check. It doesn't seem kosher at all.
    Last edited by AppealPlay; 10-05-2013 at 11:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AppealPlay View Post
    I'm flummoxed by this concept of being able to possess a firearm but not being able to purchase at a gun store because of the background check. It doesn't seem kosher at all.
    I am sure that you had to study the rules of baseball and acquire some experience in their application. Study and experience is required in the application of firearms laws. Baseball flummoxes me so I pay it no attention.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    ...Could you go into a bit more detail on the steps you and your attorney took to get to the point of not being subject to the Lautenberg Amendment? And could you pass a background check in any other state - if, for instance, you went to the Cabela's in PA to buy a rifle?...
    Thing to do is to first get a copy of your criminal record from the VSP ($15 plus the request form off their website), and then write a letter to the person at the VSP/Dept. Criminal Justice Services who handles this stuff (don't remember the name off the top of my head), asserting that there's an error in the database that needs to be fixed, and the factual basis for that assertion (e.g., "I was convicted of assault on a family member in the J&DR Ct in Gumbo County six years ago; my record is otherwise clean, and I have never been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence"; or "There is no record of any such conviction"). If they won't fix it, then an action for declaratory judgment is in order.

    It is best to have an attorney write the letter for you, since you're apt to say something you shouldn't not knowing the legal niceties. I, myself, don't do the restoration of rights stuff anymore, got too busy with litigation, but I have a guy working with me who does: August McCarthy - 540 222 6216.

    IMPORTANT: WHY YOU SHOULD NOT GO TO BUY A GUN FROM A DEALER UNTIL YOU GET THIS FIXED: Although it would be perfectly legal for a person with a Virginia conviction for misdemeanor assault on a family member (absent a record of actual force and violence) to go fill out the Virginia and federal background check forms, if the background check comes back saying, "denied", the clerk in the store will tell you they're still waiting for a response while the VSP troopers come to arrest you. You will have a good defense, but that won't make the three days in jail any cozier while you wait to get bonded out, and then have to pay me the big bucks to argue the case. Much better not to get arrested.

    Here's some case names and excerpts from a final order entered in the Richmond Circuit Court on such a declaratory judgment action:

    United States v. White, 606 F.3d 144 (4th Cir. 2010)
    United States v. Alston, 611 F.3d 219 (4th Cir. 2010)
    Johnson v. United States, 559 U.S. ___ 086925 (2010)

    "Modified Categorical Approach" to analysis of such issues:

    United States v. Clay, 627 F.3d 959 (4th Cir. 2010)
    United States v. Vann, 620 F.3d 431 (4th Cir. 2010)

    IN THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR THE CITY OF RICHMOND
    ... Plaintiff, Case No.: CL08-4136
    v.
    DEPARTMENT OF STATE POLICE,
    Defendant.
    FINAL ORDER

    This matter comes to this Court on remand from the Supreme Court of Virginia for entry of an order dismissing the Plaintiff's complaint and vacating this Court's Order entered on January 15, 2009. On March 16, 2011, the parties appeared, by counsel, before this Court seeking the entry of a Final Order.
    Plaintiff ... pled guilty to assault and battery of a family member in violation of Va. Code § 18.2-57.2(A) on February 6, 1997. On April 4, 2008, in response to an inquiry from ..., the Department of State Police (the Department) sent a letter to ... indicating that based on ...'s conviction for assault and battery of a family member, ... was ineligible to purchase a firearm due to the prohibition contained in 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(9).
    ... responded by filing a complaint seeking declaratory judgment in the Circuit Court for the County of Shenandoah, pursuant to Va. Code §§ 9.1-135 and 18.2-308.2:2(E). The parties consented to the transfer of the case to the Circuit Court for the City of Richmond. ... argued that the Department wrongfully denied his firearm purchase under federal law because ...'s conviction for assault and battery of a family member is not a "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(9).
    The Department filed a demurrer in response to ...'s complaint on the grounds that sovereign immunity barred relief against the Commonwealth and because ... failed to state a claim upon which relief may be granted. On January 15, 2009, this Court entered an order sustaining the Department's demurrer for failure to state a claim upon which relief may be granted. The Supreme Court of Virginia considered ...'s appeal.

    Subsequent to the entry of this Court's January 15, 2009 Order and while ...'s appeal was pending in the Supreme Court of Virginia, on June 1, 2010, the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit Court issued an opinion holding that a conviction under Va. Code § 18.2-57.2 for assault and battery against a family or household member does not automatically preclude an individual from possessing a firearm under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(9). United States v. White, 606 F.3d 144 (4th Cir. 2010).

    WHEREAS, in light of the decision from the Fourth Circuit and until the Fourth Circuit reconsiders or the United States Supreme Court holds otherwise, the Department will no longer withhold approval for ... to purchase a firearm on the basis of his February 6, 1997 conviction pursuant to Va. Code § 18.2-57.2(A).

    WHEREAS, on January 6, 2011, the parties jointly requested that the Supreme Court of Virginia remand this case to the Circuit Court for the City of Richmond for dismissal of the complaint and the January 15, 2009 Order of this Court, there being no further controversy between the parties; and

    WHEREAS, on January 7, 2011, the Supreme Court of Virginia granted the parties' joint motion; it is hereby

    ADJUDGED, ORDERED AND DECREED that ...'s complaint be dismissed.
    It is further ADJUDGED, ORDERED AND DECREED that this Court's Order dated
    January 15, 2009 is hereby vacated.
    IT IS SO ORDERED.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I am sure that you had to study the rules of baseball and acquire some experience in their application. Study and experience is required in the application of firearms laws. Baseball flummoxes me so I pay it no attention.
    Yep, I hear you. It's not just domestic violence convictions that are bizarre. What about common law misdemeanors? They are just as confusing.
    Last edited by AppealPlay; 10-05-2013 at 12:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Thing to do is to first get a copy of your criminal record from the VSP ($15 plus the request form off their website), and then write a letter to the person at the VSP/Dept. Criminal Justice Services who handles this stuff (don't remember the name off the top of my head), asserting that there's an error in the database that needs to be fixed, and the factual basis for that assertion (e.g., "I was convicted of assault on a family member in the J&DR Ct in Gumbo County six years ago; my record is otherwise clean, and I have never been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence"; or "There is no record of any such conviction"). If they won't fix it, then an action for declaratory judgment is in order.

    It is best to have an attorney write the letter for you, since you're apt to say something you shouldn't not knowing the legal niceties. I, myself, don't do the restoration of rights stuff anymore, got too busy with litigation, but I have a guy working with me who does: August McCarthy - 540 222 6216.

    IMPORTANT: WHY YOU SHOULD NOT GO TO BUY A GUN FROM A DEALER UNTIL YOU GET THIS FIXED: Although it would be perfectly legal for a person with a Virginia conviction for misdemeanor assault on a family member (absent a record of actual force and violence) to go fill out the Virginia and federal background check forms, if the background check comes back saying, "denied", the clerk in the store will tell you they're still waiting for a response while the VSP troopers come to arrest you. You will have a good defense, but that won't make the three days in jail any cozier while you wait to get bonded out, and then have to pay me the big bucks to argue the case. Much better not to get arrested.

    Here's some case names and excerpts from a final order entered in the Richmond Circuit Court on such a declaratory judgment action:

    United States v. White, 606 F.3d 144 (4th Cir. 2010)
    United States v. Alston, 611 F.3d 219 (4th Cir. 2010)
    Johnson v. United States, 559 U.S. ___ 086925 (2010)

    "Modified Categorical Approach" to analysis of such issues:

    United States v. Clay, 627 F.3d 959 (4th Cir. 2010)
    United States v. Vann, 620 F.3d 431 (4th Cir. 2010)
    Heres a question Mr Hawes,
    Once the VSP deem you eligible and make the correction is it permanent? I'm assuming the scotus would have to overturn United states v white is that correct?
    Thanks

  23. #23
    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    I am going to guess that this works fine in VA. However, if you take up residence in another state you will no longer be dealing with VA state police instead you will be dealing with the Federal firearms transactions center (FTC NICS?). In dealing with the federal level you may need to repeat this before you attempt to purchase a handgun, if it is a part of your federal record. It may also come into play if you attempt to purchase a rifle or shotgun out of state, which I think you can do without being a resident.

    I wonder if a UFIN was issued? If it was then at the federal level outside of VA you will probably need a UPIN (I think that is the acronym used).
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CX7 View Post
    Heres a question Mr Hawes,
    Once the VSP deem you eligible and make the correction is it permanent? I'm assuming the scotus would have to overturn United states v white is that correct?
    Thanks
    yes.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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