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Thread: My annual, no carry 10/5/13 to 11/16/13 rant

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    My annual, no carry 10/5/13 to 11/16/13 rant

    It's that time of year again....Bow and muzzle loader season when only CHP holders are allowed to defend themselves with a handgun. Us barbarians have to use a can opener or something.

    P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P
    P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P

    BTW, Unlike CHP Holders who are disarmed, we aren't defenseless....but we are mad as hell and aren't gonna take it anymore.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It's that time of year again....Bow and muzzle loader season when only CHP holders are allowed to defend themselves with a handgun. Us barbarians have to use a can opener or something.

    P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P
    P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P P4P

    BTW, Unlike CHP Holders who are disarmed, we aren't defenseless....but we are mad as hell and aren't gonna take it anymore.


    Excerpts from a recent email with VCDL Pres. regarding a lack of volunteers from this area:



    Me:I think a good start would be to try and get some regs removed for hunters ie... Remove: No handgun carry except during firearms season without a chp
    The complaint I hear most is vcdl supports chp holders first and foremost and any other gun owners get include by default. But let it be an issue that doesn't benefit chp holders and the issue gets put on the back burner

    VCDL Pres: We have priorities, like any other organization. Hunting is not a priority for us. However, we have gone to bat for hunters many times (and with much gratefulness from some hunting groups who needed the help.)

    Me:But it's not about hunting or hunters, it's about leveling the playing field, much like the restaurant bill did.
    Why should non chp holders be denied the right to bear arms during bow/ml season while chp holders aren't, or the right to carry inside the GA.
    For some reason you see this as a hunting issue.


    VCDL Pres.:
    Open carry is always going to be fully protected and enhanced by VCDL whenever we can. We are also pushing for Constitutional Carry. But concealed carry is very important to our members and it is a priority.

    fact-OC or CC isn't fully protected for those that don't wish to cave and get a gov't permission slip to carry.

    While I have the utmost respect for Phil I totally disagree with him on this issue.








    The entire emails aren't include but nothing was taken out of context.. Grapeshot and others were CC'd by me during the email exchange.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Excerpts from a recent email with VCDL Pres. regarding a lack of volunteers from this area:



    Me:I think a good start would be to try and get some regs removed for hunters ie... Remove: No handgun carry except during firearms season without a chp
    The complaint I hear most is vcdl supports chp holders first and foremost and any other gun owners get include by default. But let it be an issue that doesn't benefit chp holders and the issue gets put on the back burner

    VCDL Pres: We have priorities, like any other organization. Hunting is not a priority for us. However, we have gone to bat for hunters many times (and with much gratefulness from some hunting groups who needed the help.)

    Me:But it's not about hunting or hunters, it's about leveling the playing field, much like the restaurant bill did.
    Why should non chp holders be denied the right to bear arms during bow/ml season while chp holders aren't, or the right to carry inside the GA.
    For some reason you see this as a hunting issue.


    VCDL Pres.:
    Open carry is always going to be fully protected and enhanced by VCDL whenever we can. We are also pushing for Constitutional Carry. But concealed carry is very important to our members and it is a priority.

    fact-OC or CC isn't fully protected for those that don't wish to cave and get a gov't permission slip to carry.

    While I have the utmost respect for Phil I totally disagree with him on this issue.








    The entire emails aren't include but nothing was taken out of context.. Grapeshot and others were CC'd by me during the email exchange.
    Thanks Marco. I couldn't have said it any better.

    Of course, it isn't all VCDL There's no reason for them to take up the hunting issue because Lee Ware is playing Dick Saslaw in the Agriculture committee and nothing passes out Kirby Burch doesn't like.

    Of course Kirby stated in front of witnesses, that he not only started VCDL and "Gave it to Phil"...but that he authored the Shall issued bill.

    Last edited by peter nap; 10-03-2013 at 03:13 PM.

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    Regular Member glockfan's Avatar
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    Why not just get the permit $50 is nothing.

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I'm not even going to bother answering that stupid question.
    Why are you on an Open carry board?

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfan View Post
    Why not just get the permit $50 is nothing.

    It's only $15 in my county.
    Why should we have to?

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    I'm not even going to bother answering that stupid question.
    Why are you on an Open carry board?
    1+ X2......
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Re: My annual, no carry 10/5 to 11/16 rant

    Quote Originally Posted by glockfan View Post
    Why not just get the permit $50 is nothing.
    It's the point that matters. You/we shouldn't have to. Yes it's nothing money wise. I'd like to think values>money.


    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk 2

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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfan View Post
    Why not just get the permit $50 is nothing.
    Even if it's free, I'm still not getting a permit.
    What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade

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  9. #9
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    Even if it's free, I'm still not getting a permit.
    Ron, his comment is a prime example of people that are willing to turn Va. into a permit state. I don't have any patience with them.

    I've followed your states Lobby closely, get their alerts and have donated to it. They've done a miraculous job getting rid of the draconian laws that NC had while at the same time, certain factions here are in favor of implementing them.

    The old saying "You don't know what you had until it's gone" has a lot of meaning in this state.

    I'm going to send Grass Roots of North Carolina the $50.00 I'm NOT going to pay for a permit here. Hopefully they continue their no compromise agenda even now that they've had major victories.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    So, where do these hunting regs apply?

    For me, I know they apply in the entire Jefferson National forest (and others), which is a massive personal inconvenience, and an affront to Jefferson's name and legacy.

    Where else do these laws apply?

    Of course, I'm aware that much of the rural area of the state is a National Forest (pretty much everywhere around me is).

    Regardless, this is my #1 issue with gun rights in Virginia. That the VCDL continues to focus on CC irrelevancies – and ignore this – is changing my opinion of them day by day. I have not renewed my membership since I became aware of this issue.
    Last edited by marshaul; 10-04-2013 at 11:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Excerpts from a recent email with VCDL Pres. regarding a lack of volunteers from this area:



    Me:I think a good start would be to try and get some regs removed for hunters ie... Remove: No handgun carry except during firearms season without a chp
    The complaint I hear most is vcdl supports chp holders first and foremost and any other gun owners get include by default. But let it be an issue that doesn't benefit chp holders and the issue gets put on the back burner

    VCDL Pres: We have priorities, like any other organization. Hunting is not a priority for us. However, we have gone to bat for hunters many times (and with much gratefulness from some hunting groups who needed the help.)

    Me:But it's not about hunting or hunters, it's about leveling the playing field, much like the restaurant bill did.
    Why should non chp holders be denied the right to bear arms during bow/ml season while chp holders aren't, or the right to carry inside the GA.
    For some reason you see this as a hunting issue.


    VCDL Pres.:
    Open carry is always going to be fully protected and enhanced by VCDL whenever we can. We are also pushing for Constitutional Carry. But concealed carry is very important to our members and it is a priority.

    fact-OC or CC isn't fully protected for those that don't wish to cave and get a gov't permission slip to carry.

    While I have the utmost respect for Phil I totally disagree with him on this issue.


    The entire emails aren't include but nothing was taken out of context.. Grapeshot and others were CC'd by me during the email exchange.
    Thank you for being willing to have this conversation with the folks you know in VCDL. Once you get out of the cities and suburbs, rural carry in the National Forests and while hunting is significantly restricted. Plenty of folks I know don't spend much time out shopping or dining out in the burbs, but spend plenty of time hiking the woods for fun or hunting. Unless they choose to be part of the pay to play CHP crowd like so many suburbanites, their right to carry a sidearm for personal defense is utterly denied and VCDL doesn't mean much to them since so little discussion or effort seems to be spent on rural carry where many of us live, work, and hang out.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 10-04-2013 at 11:21 AM.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfan View Post
    Why not just get the permit $50 is nothing.
    1. Principle.

    2. Then I couldn't enjoy a beer.

    3. Then I would be subsidizing the state, in effect rewarding it for immoral and unconstitutional actions.

    4. The minute you ask for something which is your right, you have conceded the right to whomever you're asking for it from. When you apply for a permit, you're assenting to the abrogation of your right.

    5. No.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    So, where do these hunting regs apply?
    Everywhere while hunting during the Bow/ML season. Since I'll hunt 6 days a week from now till January, except Sundays (Thanks to Lee Ware) and Grahams trial on the 10th...I'm not supposed to carry.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Everywhere while hunting during the Bow/ML season. Since I'll hunt 6 days a week from now till January, except Sundays (Thanks to Lee Ware) and Grahams trial on the 10th...I'm not supposed to carry.
    Not even a black powder handgun?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not even a black powder handgun?
    Np[e. They're not allowed for big game so even in ML season, they're out.

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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    1. Principle.

    2. Then I couldn't enjoy a beer.

    3. Then I would be subsidizing the state, in effect rewarding it for immoral and unconstitutional actions.

    4. The minute you ask for something which is your right, you have conceded the right to whomever you're asking for it from. When you apply for a permit, you're assenting to the abrogation of your right.

    5. No.
    Exactly!
    What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade

    MOLON LABE

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Everywhere while hunting during the Bow/ML season. Since I'll hunt 6 days a week from now till January, except Sundays (Thanks to Lee Ware) and Grahams trial on the 10th...I'm not supposed to carry.
    and am I correct in thinking that also includes on your own private land where, without a permit, you're allowed to conceal the rest of the year?

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    If it helps at all in your fight, the wording of the Oregon hunting laws is perfect. They specifically allow the carrying of any firearm at all times; even recognizing that any rule to the contrary would be against your rights. They just make it clear you'd better not use it for the actual species when not in season. They recognize that bad guys and attacking animals are always in season. You may be able to propose its text to your regulators and get them to agree.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    If it helps at all in your fight, the wording of the Oregon hunting laws is perfect. They specifically allow the carrying of any firearm at all times; even recognizing that any rule to the contrary would be against your rights. They just make it clear you'd better not use it for the actual species when not in season. They recognize that bad guys and attacking animals are always in season. You may be able to propose its text to your regulators and get them to agree.
    Gotta link to it?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    and am I correct in thinking that also includes on your own private land where, without a permit, you're allowed to conceal the rest of the year?
    You are correct!

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Gotta link to it?
    I'm looking for it now, and if I don't find it in a bit (or someone much better at looking does) I will just type it out from the book.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    If it helps at all in your fight, the wording of the Oregon hunting laws is perfect. They specifically allow the carrying of any firearm at all times; even recognizing that any rule to the contrary would be against your rights. They just make it clear you'd better not use it for the actual species when not in season. They recognize that bad guys and attacking animals are always in season. You may be able to propose its text to your regulators and get them to agree.
    It would be great if we could get it through here Mac.
    It would have to go through the House Agriculture Committee and that means Ware's sub committee.

    He is the Dick Saslaw of the hunting world and his chain is yanked by the Dog hunting Lobbyist.
    For reasons I don't really want to get into, the Dog Hunters do not want non permit legislation to make it through that Sub (And a lot of other legislation too).

    That bill would be the walking dead.

    This is one election where I'm hoping the Democratic Challenger for Ware's seat.....beats the pants off of him.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Exclamation Notice to dog hunters

    ......................//)
    ....................,/../
    .................../..../
    .............//'...'/`
    ........../'/.../..../......./\
    ........('(.......... ~/'...')
    .........\.................'...../
    ..........''...\.......... _.
    ............\..............(
    ..............\.............\...

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockfan View Post
    Why not just get the permit $50 is nothing.
    Could you please send me nothing? I'm a little short on nothing these days. Not everybody has extra nothing lying around.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  25. #25
    Regular Member AppealPlay's Avatar
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    What's the deal on no hunting on Sunday? I was shocked when that bill didn't pass. I don't understand it.

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