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Thread: Visiting from Florida

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    Visiting from Florida

    I am flying into O'Hare and actually staying at the Hilton there for a couple of days, then flying on to VA. What are your thoughts on issues if I check my XD45, go straight to the Hotel then secure it there? I am looking for any and all info online, but was hoping some of you may have insight.

    I know that my CCW is void there, just curious if I would be met by enforcers at the baggage claim.

    Thanks

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    Re: Visiting from Florida

    I'm not a resident of Illinois but have flown into O'Hare with a firearm transported per FAA regulations. I experienced no issues. What you describe would appear to be legal... but I'm not a lawyer and I post this for educational purposes only. You may want to see Illinois Carry's website...and also search for Fanny-pack carry.
    See also: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...d.php?t=116183
    Who in Illinois is Fanny Packing?


    Since you have a license to carry, please note that this exempts you from FOID requirement. Illinois is odd in giving visitors a few more privileges than their residents.

    Court case regarding FOID:
    Full decision at : http://www.state.il.us/court/Opinion...ril/109130.pdf
    Last edited by DrTodd; 10-03-2013 at 09:02 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I'm not a resident of Illinois but have flown into O'Hare with a firearm transported per FAA regulations. I experienced no issues. What you describe would appear to be legal... but I'm not a lawyer and I post this for educational purposes only. You may want to see Illinois Carry's website...and also search for Fanny-pack carry.
    See also: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...d.php?t=116183
    Who in Illinois is Fanny Packing?


    Since you have a license to carry, please note that this exempts you from FOID requirement. Illinois is odd in giving visitors a few more privileges than their residents.

    Court case regarding FOID:
    Full decision at : http://www.state.il.us/court/Opinion...ril/109130.pdf
    Dr.Todd, I am in Illinois and fanny pack. This is transporting a handgun unloaded with a loaded magazine in the fanny pack or other container, also known as "6 seconds to safety"! I've been doing so for 8 years, using a black Uncle Mike's Sidekick Fannypack! Never been stopped by police when doing so. Out of staters can do this as well without a FOID card, since they are not eligible for one.

    There should be no trouble flying in or out of Chicago with a handgun people do it all the time. We are Illinois, but not New Jersey. You can also conceal carry a loaded handgun concealed in your car if you are legal to do so in your own state. Just make sure it is unloaded (no round in chamber or magazine in gun) and cased if you go outside your car, say to put it in your trunk or to go in somewhere, the case must completely enclose the gun. It could be a fanny pack, purse, or other pack, brief case, luggage and it doesn't need to be locked. With a CCW from your state you are fine, and technically you probably are if you can open carry without one, though an Illinois LEO may not think so. Transportation laws in Illinois are fairly good and now uniform though the whole state. You can transport a handgun or other firearm unloaded and encased with a loaded magazine in the same case in the passenger compartment (6 seconds to safety) and the center console has been ruled to be a case by Illinois courts.

    If you would like more input on this go to the Illinoiscarry.com forum, and post your question. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks there, especially the NRA lobbyist for Illinois , Todd Vandermyde!

    If you have any questions on what I mentioned just ask and I'll clarify.
    Last edited by junglebob; 10-04-2013 at 10:19 AM.

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    In IL, all you need is a locked case for the gun and the ammo in another (locked?) container.

    Transport in your trunk and you are 100% OK.

    Never had a problem at O'Hare.

    Carry in IL? Some counties never cared about fanny pack carry although technically illegal, a scattering of DAs refused to do anything. Your gun would be taken by the cops in some/most cases and those guns never are returned.

    Still not allowed per the law and I know of no incident of out-of-towners being accorded such "courtesy"; best not to carry.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 10-04-2013 at 12:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    In IL, all you need is a locked case for the gun and the ammo in another (locked?) container.

    Transport in your trunk and you are 100% OK.

    Never had a problem at O'Hare.

    Carry in IL? Some counties never cared about fanny pack carry although technically illegal, a scattering of DAs refused to do anything. Your gun would be taken by the cops in some/most cases and those guns never are returned.

    Still not allowed per the law and I know of no incident of out-of-towners being accorded such "courtesy"; best not to carry.
    Sorry but you have some misinformation here. You only need to lock a handgun in a case if your vehicle is unlocked.(but who would do that in Chicago?) No law says ammo in another case or that a gun must be in a trunk.

    Container is the word that is used in the law so most consider unloaded in a fanny-pack legal. Am I being too picky?

    Of course if the OP wants to feel safer being within the law that OK. (Since most LEO's probably don't know the new law.)
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    Re: Visiting from Florida

    Thanks for all the info. I was sort of equating Illinois with the PRNJ & PRNY, my mistake. Sucks I can't carry there though.

    Will make up for it when I get to RVA Wednesday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Eagle View Post
    Sorry but you have some misinformation here. You only need to lock a handgun in a case if your vehicle is unlocked.(but who would do that in Chicago?) No law says ammo in another case or that a gun must be in a trunk.

    Container is the word that is used in the law so most consider unloaded in a fanny-pack legal. Am I being too picky?

    Of course if the OP wants to feel safer being within the law that OK. (Since most LEO's probably don't know the new law.)
    I agree with Golden Eagle. You might also look at what www.handgunlaw.us has to say about Illinois. Look at RV/Car carry and you'll see they agree with me about concealed carry by non-residents with their states CCW. If you want to read the law go to the Illinois General Assembly website at www.ilga.gov and click on legislation the law is public act 98-0063

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    Quote Originally Posted by im4Christ92 View Post
    Thanks for all the info. I was sort of equating Illinois with the PRNJ & PRNY, my mistake. Sucks I can't carry there though.

    Will make up for it when I get to RVA Wednesday.

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    Consider unloaded in a fanny-pack. My vagueness regarding this option above was due to my hesitation to explicitly advocate methods not 100% agreed upon by "the experts". I personally have used another exception which is stated in the law very near the "container" exemption much more often, but the container carry might be easier to understand. Depending on your circumstances, there most likely are quite a few exemptions applicable. I also am fairly confident that CC in a vehicle with your home permit, even if the permit is not actually needed by law, would not be an issue with LEOs. But, if you feel that all this hoop-jumping is not worth it, I understand.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 10-05-2013 at 01:29 AM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by junglebob View Post
    Dr.Todd, I am in Illinois and fanny pack. This is transporting a handgun unloaded with a loaded magazine in the fanny pack or other container, also known as "6 seconds to safety"! I've been doing so for 8 years, using a black Uncle Mike's Sidekick Fannypack! Never been stopped by police when doing so. Out of staters can do this as well without a FOID card, since they are not eligible for one.

    There should be no trouble flying in or out of Chicago with a handgun people do it all the time. We are Illinois, but not New Jersey. You can also conceal carry a loaded handgun concealed in your car if you are legal to do so in your own state. Just make sure it is unloaded (no round in chamber or magazine in gun) and cased if you go outside your car, say to put it in your trunk or to go in somewhere, the case must completely enclose the gun. It could be a fanny pack, purse, or other pack, brief case, luggage and it doesn't need to be locked. With a CCW from your state you are fine, and technically you probably are if you can open carry without one, though an Illinois LEO may not think so. Transportation laws in Illinois are fairly good and now uniform though the whole state. You can transport a handgun or other firearm unloaded and encased with a loaded magazine in the same case in the passenger compartment (6 seconds to safety) and the center console has been ruled to be a case by Illinois courts.

    If you would like more input on this go to the Illinoiscarry.com forum, and post your question. There are a lot of knowledgeable folks there, especially the NRA lobbyist for Illinois , Todd Vandermyde!

    If you have any questions on what I mentioned just ask and I'll clarify.
    Yep, thanks for the information. Although I did know this (except for your personal experience lol), I think it does need to be posted. Although I've used the "fanny-pack method", I found a similar exemption stated very near the one you mention and have used it at least a dozen times, for 1-3 days at a time.
    I applaud you for using it on a daily basis; after spending time in your state I'm always relieved to be back over the border into IN and, even more relieved when I am back home in Michigan. Have you been to Michigan and OCed? I see plenty of your fellow residents during the summer when their eyes open wide and they start to get nervous at the site of people OCing... always some good entertainment in watching their expressions. I even had a few take pictures of me OCing as I was shopping in Saugatuck a few years ago. I'm sure that was to prove to their friends that they saw some unbelievable things while on vacation on the other planet known as "Michigan". lol Too bad you folks didn't get OC in the CC legislation, you'd be in for a treat when your fellow citizens see you OCing while going about your business.
    All kidding aside, I wish you success in an area of the country that seems pretty negative when it comes to citizens being able to carry and, if you ever get a chance to come up for a visit, give us OCers a heads-up, bring your pistol and your FOID, and if you have one at that time, your Concealed Carry card (bring the cards because Michigan doesn't allow even possession without some sort of license to purchase, own, carry, etc) I'm sure we could get at least a few fellow OCers to show up and have a nice little "Midwest OC Meet-n-Greet".
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Re: Visiting from Florida

    Is "fanny packing" (I almost feel dirty saying that) ok in Chicago or is that a no go?

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    Re: Visiting from Florida

    Quote Originally Posted by im4Christ92 View Post
    Is "fanny packing" (I almost feel dirty saying that) ok in Chicago or is that a no go?

    Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2
    Remember I'm not an attorney and you need to research Chicago's ordinances but my nonprofessional understanding is that the problem arises due to their registration requirement. I believe, but am not 100% certain, that registration is required if you are present in the city for 24+ hours. Remember too that O'Hare, despite being quite a distance from what most consider "The City of Chicago" actually sits on land that is part of the city, as well as a 1 mile wide strip from Chicago proper to the airport. That being said, I do believe that Chicago has recently modified or removed the registration law but I'm guessing this may be for pistols carried under the authority of a Concealed Carry license. I can look it up when I'm at a computer later tonight.

    ETA I was unable to find exactly how their registration law changed; I have one source stating it's no longer going to be enforced and another stating it's only been changed to exempt pistols carried under an as-of-yet unissued concealed carry license.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 10-09-2013 at 06:20 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Remember I'm not an attorney and you need to research Chicago's ordinances but my nonprofessional understanding is that the problem arises due to their registration requirement. I believe, but am not 100% certain, that registration is required if you are present in the city for 24+ hours. Remember too that O'Hare, despite being quite a distance from what most consider "The City of Chicago" actually sits on land that is part of the city, as well as a 1 mile wide strip from Chicago proper to the airport. That being said, I do believe that Chicago has recently modified or removed the registration law but I'm guessing this may be for pistols carried under the authority of a Concealed Carry license. I can look it up when I'm at a computer later tonight.

    ETA I was unable to find exactly how their registration law changed; I have one source stating it's no longer going to be enforced and another stating it's only been changed to exempt pistols carried under an as-of-yet unissued concealed carry license.

    As I understand the law, and I have read the whole thing, Handguns appear to be preempted statewide, and local regulations upon handguns are null and void.

    And do keep in mind that Chicago is in the process of rewriting their laws, and they still have stupid things on the books that aren't preempted, like a ban on laser sights.
    Last edited by zigziggityzoo; 10-09-2013 at 06:51 PM.

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    Preemption:



    The regulation, licensing, possession, registration, and transportation of concealed handguns and ammunition for concealed handguns by licensees are exclusive powers and functions of the State. Any ordinance or regulation, or portion thereof, enacted on or before the effective date of this Act that purports to impose regulations or restrictions on licensees or concealed handguns and ammunition for concealed handguns in a manner inconsistent with this Act shall be invalid in its application to licensees under this Act on the effective date of this Act. This Section is a denial and limitation of home rule powers and functions under subsection (h) of Section 6 of Article VII of the Illinois Constitution.



    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publ...8/098-0063.htm

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    Re: Visiting from Florida

    Well...I made it in and out of O'Hare without interaction with the state enforcers.

    I stayed at the Hilton at ORD and secured it in the room from Sunday afternoon till this morning. Was mildly concerned that someone would open my bag, but I cable my case to my suitcase...they would have had to steal the whole thing.

    Checking my bag this morning was hassle free as well.

    Now in RVA for a couple of days...


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    Quote Originally Posted by zigziggityzoo View Post
    Preemption:



    The regulation, licensing, possession, registration, and transportation of concealed handguns and ammunition for concealed handguns by licensees are exclusive powers and functions of the State. Any ordinance or regulation, or portion thereof, enacted on or before the effective date of this Act that purports to impose regulations or restrictions on licensees or concealed handguns and ammunition for concealed handguns in a manner inconsistent with this Act shall be invalid in its application to licensees under this Act on the effective date of this Act. This Section is a denial and limitation of home rule powers and functions under subsection (h) of Section 6 of Article VII of the Illinois Constitution.



    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publ...8/098-0063.htm
    I have some concerns as it specifically mentions "by licensees" which would seem to require one to a have a license in order for preemption to apply. It also seems to refer to handguns generally. So, like all laws written by people who don't consider what they are actually saying when the laws are written...preemption seems to apply...but then again, maybe not.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 10-16-2013 at 04:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I have some concerns as it specifically mentions "by licensees" which would seem to require one to a have a license in order for preemption to apply. It also seems to refer to handguns generally. So, like all laws written by people who don't consider what they are actually saying when the laws are written...preemption seems to apply...but then again, maybe not.
    Preemption kicks in when you have a FOID or you meet the exemptions to FOID.

    If you have a licenses to possess or carry from your home state, that is one of the exceptions and you are considered to have a de facto FOID card.

    Once you meet the FOID exemption, you can "case and carry" if you wish as well as that is considered transporting a handgun and not carrying it.

    Of course, non-residents who can legally own a firearm back home can conceal carry in a vehicle without a CCL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    Preemption kicks in when you have a FOID or you meet the exemptions to FOID.

    If you have a licenses to possess or carry from your home state, that is one of the exceptions and you are considered to have a de facto FOID card.

    Once you meet the FOID exemption, you can "case and carry" if you wish as well as that is considered transporting a handgun and not carrying it.

    Of course, non-residents who can legally own a firearm back home can conceal carry in a vehicle without a CCL
    I wonder if that last bit will ever be challenged on the basis of it giving out of staters a "privilege" (Yeah, yeah, I know it's a right in fact, but this is the law, it doesn't have to make sense) denied to the people of Illinois. In other words Illinois law, it could be argued, violates equal protection by discriminating against people in Illinois.

    Of course there are two possible remedies here--remove the restriction on Illinois residents, OR lay the restriction on everyone else. I wouldn't want to tempt them to take the latter route.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    Preemption kicks in when you have a FOID or you meet the exemptions to FOID.

    If you have a licenses to possess or carry from your home state, that is one of the exceptions and you are considered to have a de facto FOID card.

    Once you meet the FOID exemption, you can "case and carry" if you wish as well as that is considered transporting a handgun and not carrying it.

    Of course, non-residents who can legally own a firearm back home can conceal carry in a vehicle without a CCL
    I was reading it that a "licensee" under the preemption section was a person issued a license to carry a concealed handgun. It also mentions "concealed handguns". It doesn't say anything about firearms in general...just if it is a handgun falling under the act or a licensee then it appears to be covered under preemption. If it it instead referred to a FOID card holder, then you would be correct.

    From the Concealed Carry Law (Public Act 098-0063):

    "Licensee" means a person issued a license to carry a concealed handgun.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 10-22-2013 at 01:31 AM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by im4Christ92
    What are your thoughts on issues if I check my XD45
    Legal

    go straight to the Hotel
    As long as it's unloaded & encased & out of reach, legal.
    Or you could cc in your car legally with your FL license, but you cannot take a loaded pistol out of your car unless you have a (currently nonexistant) IL permit.
    So get into the car at the airport, load & conceal, get to the hotel, unload & encase, get to the room, load it again.
    I hate doing the dance, esp. in a car. Someone is going to have an ND and it will be (partially) the fault of the stupid legislators who force people to handle their pistols in public.

    then secure it there?
    Legal.

    I know that my CCW is void there
    Except for vehicle carry.
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    I did most of that on my last trip (by car) to Illinois--except for the in-car carry which I didn't realize I could legally do, so the gun went into the trunk (unloaded, ammo separately cased) in the Iowa quad cities.

    Come to think of it I am not sure "separately cased" is necessary there. Is it?

    I have one of those little safes that you actuate with your fingers and has a cable to tie around your seat anchors (or the hinge of your trunk) and brought the gun into the hotel room in that--and used it to secure the gun inside the room while I went about my business. (I unloaded the gun and separately cased the mags just before departing, too--I don't know if I had to do that or not; please chime in.) Brought a second cheapie case for the (loaded) mags. There doesn't seem to be any issue about whether a loaded mag not in the pistol or even in the same container is a "loaded weapon" in Illinois, unlike some other states.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInCO View Post
    I did most of that on my last trip (by car) to Illinois--except for the in-car carry which I didn't realize I could legally do, so the gun went into the trunk (unloaded, ammo separately cased) in the Iowa quad cities.

    Come to think of it I am not sure "separately cased" is necessary there. Is it?

    I have one of those little safes that you actuate with your fingers and has a cable to tie around your seat anchors (or the hinge of your trunk) and brought the gun into the hotel room in that--and used it to secure the gun inside the room while I went about my business. (I unloaded the gun and separately cased the mags just before departing, too--I don't know if I had to do that or not; please chime in.) Brought a second cheapie case for the (loaded) mags. There doesn't seem to be any issue about whether a loaded mag not in the pistol or even in the same container is a "loaded weapon" in Illinois, unlike some other states.

    No ammo doesn't need to be in a separate case from the firearm, and a loaded magazine can be in the case with the firearm, just not in the mag well. I see that Iowa's transport laws aren't as good as Illinois if you don't have a CCW. - Iowa says You have to have it in a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on your person or inside the cargo or baggage compartment not readily accessible to anyone. Again the previous sentence is Iowa law not the more gun owner friendly Illinois law!

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    Quote Originally Posted by junglebob View Post
    No ammo doesn't need to be in a separate case from the firearm, and a loaded magazine can be in the case with the firearm, just not in the mag well. I see that Iowa's transport laws aren't as good as Illinois if you don't have a CCW. - Iowa says You have to have it in a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on your person or inside the cargo or baggage compartment not readily accessible to anyone. Again the previous sentence is Iowa law not the more gun owner friendly Illinois law!
    On the other hand at least Iowa will recognize my Colorado permit when I am NOT in my car, and you can Open Carry most places there! (I believe some of the larger towns will hassle you.) But then on the other other hand, I can legally buy full-cap (16+1) mags for my CZ-75 in Illinois so long as I throw them out the car window before I cross the state line going into Colorado on my return. (Luckily the ones I already have are grandfathered. Also the stupid law is basically unenforceable.)

    I see there is at least one bill in the Illinois legislative hopper to allow for reciprocity with other states (and another to reduce the fee and training requirements); I would love to see them pass but I am in no way optimistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInCO View Post
    On the other hand at least Iowa will recognize my Colorado permit when I am NOT in my car, and you can Open Carry most places there! (I believe some of the larger towns will hassle you.) But then on the other other hand, I can legally buy full-cap (16+1) mags for my CZ-75 in Illinois so long as I throw them out the car window before I cross the state line going into Colorado on my return. (Luckily the ones I already have are grandfathered. Also the stupid law is basically unenforceable.)

    I see there is at least one bill in the Illinois legislative hopper to allow for reciprocity with other states (and another to reduce the fee and training requirements); I would love to see them pass but I am in no way optimistic.
    We've had some bad gun bills defeated this past year in the Illinois legislature. The carry bill that was passed got more than the 3/5 majority needed to override the governor's amended veto. A really terrible bill could have been enacted if the legislators had voted to accept his amendments. Changes to the carry bill can be made with a majority vote of the legislature if we get a governor in that won't veto because it makes things better for those who want to carry.

    SteveInCo, Interesting what you mentioned about being able to buy full-cap mags in Illinois but not being able to have them in Colorado. One of the things that Governor Quinn wanted, as I recall, was a 10 round magazine limit and you could only carry one handgun, also a prohibition to carrying in restaurants that serve alcohol, and more gun-free victim zones.

    I checked and what I posted above was mostly right, under Quinn's amendments you could only carry 10 rounds and one handgun, also you could only carry in stores, restaurants, churches, etc. if they posted a sign saying it was permitted. The gun-free victim zones spelled out weren't increased, technically. He also wanted duty to inform if stopped by law enforcement. The current law says you must inform the LEO if asked.
    Last edited by junglebob; 10-25-2013 at 10:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by junglebob View Post
    I checked and what I posted above was mostly right, under Quinn's amendments you could only carry 10 rounds and one handgun, also you could only carry in stores, restaurants, churches, etc. if they posted a sign saying it was permitted. The gun-free victim zones spelled out weren't increased, technically. He also wanted duty to inform if stopped by law enforcement. The current law says you must inform the LEO if asked.
    Oh without a doubt you could have done much, much worse with this bill (but even that would have been an improvement over the zero freedom you had before). However, though I am no expert on other states' laws, Illinois does seem to be the state with the worst shall-issue law.

    You ARE moving in the right direction though, so it must be pretty exciting if you have lived there your whole life to see this happening, and I am rooting for you.
    Last edited by SteveInCO; 10-26-2013 at 12:08 PM. Reason: changed "their" to "there" in last paragraph. I know better than that, dammit.

  25. #25
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    Southern Illinois, Illinois, USA
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    SteveInCo, You may be right that Illinois has the worst laws of any shall issue state. We did get it in the law that your handgun must be concealed or mostly concealed so you won't get arrested because your gun prints or the wind blows your jacket open. Carry in churches that don't post is allowed. I was glad to see this the reason we got a concealed carry bill passed was that the federal court in Benton ruled in favor of Mary Shepard in her suit against Illinois. She and another woman working at a Baptist church were severely beaten. Mary has 2 non-resident licenses which did her no good in Illinois. The court directed the state to pass a CCW bill.

    We had less restrictive bills, fewer "victim zones", NRA basic pistol as all the training required and carry for Illinoisans with a non-resident CCW for 6 months or 1 year. There are a lot of things gun owners don't like about the bill that passed. However the bill that did pass was given support by house speaker Madigan who was always opposed to concealed carry. Politics and ego probably came into play when the governor made a amendatory veto. Almost all the legislators who voted for the original bill voted to override the veto. Quite a number of us thought that the house speaker would show him who was boss. He doesn't like the governor trying to write legislation. A lot of Chicago legislators were against preemption and would have preferred to be able to have local ordinances on carry, giving Illinois a patchwork of carry laws. Hopefully we can improve on the law as other states have done. I know in Ohio where my daughter lives there had been a prohibition against carrying in any place that sold liquor, not just places that sold by the drink. So even some grocery stores were "victim zones".

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