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Thread: Eviction Notice for Open Carrying in Spokane

  1. #1
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Eviction Notice for Open Carrying in Spokane

    Tonight I got an eviction notice for "threatening tenants by showing gun". This is not the first time I have had issue at this complex as some may remember my post about being pulled out of my apartment for open carrying. I tried to fight that but I could not find an attorney the would take the case up front without a stack of cash in hand, which is not at all possible for me. I will post the letter when I get a chance to scan it. Im so pissed and at a complete loss as to what to do.

  2. #2
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Letter...
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    Regular Member 509rifas's Avatar
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    It's not an eviction notice, it's a ten day notice to stop carrying a gun or move out.
    Provided you don't carry a gun, you are complying with the demands of the letter.
    I would recommend complying for the time being until you find a stronger way to fight it.pPerhaps put together some sort of legalese letter detailing the mountains of case law stating that it is not disorderly conduct, but there may be a different application of that because it's a rental property contract and not criminal law. Does your rental contract have a clause stating the landlord can evict you for any or no reason?
    Last edited by 509rifas; 10-04-2013 at 11:24 PM.
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    Regular Member Mattimusmaximus's Avatar
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    Eviction Notice for Open Carrying in Spokane

    Anything about no guns in your rental agreement?


    -Matt of Hillsboro OR-

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    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    There is nothing about guns, the only reason I read the damn thing is to make sure of no gun crap.

    I will not comply at all. Hunting season is in a week and I have to take my rifle and shotgun to and from the car, not something I normally do unless its hunting season, and I do little more when I carry my edc.

  6. #6
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    My wife OC's on a daily basis also and also has not plans to be bullied into not carrying.

  7. #7
    Regular Member 509rifas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennie1986 View Post
    My wife OC's on a daily basis also and also has not plans to be bullied into not carrying.
    I wasn't suggesting you roll over, maybe just step back and check out your options before challenging it directly. You don't want to just ignore it and end up losing; actual court evictions (where it will go if neither side backs down) look real bad on a rental history and credit report.
    As you said you were at a loss as to what to do, I'm just suggesting you know what your plan is.
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    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 509rifas View Post
    I wasn't suggesting you roll over, maybe just step back and check out your options before challenging it directly. You don't want to just ignore it and end up losing; actual court evictions (where it will go if neither side backs down) look real bad on a rental history and credit report.
    As you said you were at a loss as to what to do, I'm just suggesting you know what your plan is.
    My apologies if i sounded like i was being critical of your suggestion, i didn't mean it that way im just so pissed.

  9. #9
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    They are using some wording to get around the gun issue: "boisterous, disorderly conduct". I think it's BS, and would get a free eval from a lawyer. An actual "eviction" can cost the landlord serious time, and money. Take them to the wall! (Time for an OC BBQ maybe?)
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    Looks like they're trying to hit you with RCW 59.12.030(4):

    Quote Originally Posted by RCW 59.12.030(4)
    When he or she continues in possession in person or by subtenant after a neglect or failure to keep or perform any other condition or covenant of the lease or agreement under which the property is held, including any covenant not to assign or sublet, than one for the payment of rent, and after notice in writing requiring in the alternative the performance of such condition or covenant or the surrender of the property, served (in manner in RCW 59.12.040 provided) upon him or her, and if there is a subtenant in actual possession of the premises, also upon such subtenant, shall remain uncomplied with for ten days after service thereof. Within ten days after the service of such notice the tenant, or any subtenant in actual occupation of the premises, or any mortgagee of the term, or other person interested in its continuance, may perform such condition or covenant and thereby save the lease from such forfeiture;
    As you stated you have not broken any laws in the lease, I would get a free evaluation from a lawyer asap. And at the very least write a letter in return stating case law and RCW's before the 10 days are up. I would also bring up that you have not violated the terms of your contract and site the paragraphs that might be relevant within the rental agreement.

    Did they mail the notice to you?

    I'm sorry that your landlord is being stupid, please let us know what you decide and how this ends up.
    Last edited by jfslicer; 10-05-2013 at 01:07 AM. Reason: quote wasn't quoted.

  11. #11
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfslicer View Post
    Looks like they're trying to hit you with RCW 59.12.030(4):



    As you stated you have not broken any laws in the lease, I would get a free evaluation from a lawyer asap. And at the very least write a letter in return stating case law and RCW's before the 10 days are up. I would also bring up that you have not violated the terms of your contract and site the paragraphs that might be relevant within the rental agreement.

    Did they mail the notice to you?

    I'm sorry that your landlord is being stupid, please let us know what you decide and how this ends up.
    They pined it to my door.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Fibresteve's Avatar
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    Eviction Notice for Open Carrying in Spokane

    What kind of report did one of the tenants file with law enforcement? That you were legally carrying a firearm?? Damn Hoplophobes!

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Check with one (or more) of the resources here first http://www.tenantsunion.org/rights/s...sistance-guide

    See if the folks here http://www.nwcdl.org/ can provide you with info or direct assistance or a referral for assistance.

    Then decide if you want to let them take you to court over the matter via an eviction hearing, or if you can beat them to the punch via a pre-emptive strike from the folks mentioned above and/or the local ACLU (do not know if the Washington ACLU is as hoplophobic/anti-2A as some others).

    So far they say your behavior has violated the terms of your lease. Before they can act against you they need to prove you in fact violated the terms.

    It's up to you to decide if you want to fight them, how much you want to fight them, and wether or not to line up a fall-back housing situation now.

    If possible, please keep us posted on what happens.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    purely a civil matter.

    It is the duty of a tenant to comply with a 'reasonable request' of the landlord, under WA law.

    A 10 day notice to comply or vacate would be issued if the 'reasonable request' isn't followed.

    That being said, once they file an unlawful detainer suit, after you fail to leave, they have to prove that the 'reasonable request' was, in fact, reasonable.

    Asking to rescind a right guaranteed by the state and federal constitution, is not, IMHO, reasonable.

    This would be the same as asking someone to not carry a bible, or to not speak....or allow them to invite police into your apartment at any time, for any or no reason, without a warrant.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Check with one (or more) of the resources here first
    So far they say your behavior has violated the terms of your lease. Before they can act against you they need to prove you in fact violated the terms.
    What Skid said.

    In typical blufferese, they tossed in some serious-sounding criminal terms from the RCWs, hoping to scare you into complying short of the long and expensive process to actually evict you. From my (limited) understanding of WA law, the accusations they made don't even apply in your case. Even if they did, they have no proof you actually engaged in any threatening behavior, unless there's a lot more you haven't told us.

    So: comply with the letter by not OCing for the next 10 days, and if you're transferring long arms to your car for hunting season, case them or wrap them up from plain sight.

    And by the way, "Pinned to my front door" equals "What letter? I didn't get any letter!"

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post

    And by the way, "Pinned to my front door" equals "What letter? I didn't get any letter!"
    Nope.

    Letter on the door + mailed copy = notification.
    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    There might be something here that can help you- http://www.laborlawtalk.com/showthread.php?t=278100
    HTH,
    Lifetime member, Gun Owners of America (http://gunowners.org/)
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    Registering gun owners to prevent crime, is like registering Jews to prevent a HOLOCAUST.

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  18. #18
    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    Try this, maybe it can help.



    Washington- Landlord & Tenant links

    http://www.tenantsunion.org/rights/s...sistance-guide
    http://www.nwcdl.org/

    Landlord-tenant rights and protections within the state of Washington
    http://www.wsba.org/media/publicatio...ord-tenant.htm

    Pro Bono Lawyers that might be able to help
    http://www.advocateresourcecenter.org/oppsguide/

    Attorneys Assisting Citizen-Soldiers and Families (AACF)
    Contact: Captain Alexander Straub, AttorneysEnlist@gmail.com, 253-512-8262

    Benton Franklin Legal Aid Society
    Contact: Barbara Otte, Bflegalaid2@verizon.net, 509-734-9840

    Blue Mountain Action Council Volunteer Attorney Program
    Contact: Luis Rosales, luisr@bmacww.org

    Center for Children & Youth Justice - Lawyers Fostering Independence
    Contact: Sarah Lysons, slysons@ccyj.org, 206-696-7503 x17

    Chelan-Douglas County Volunteer Attorney Services
    Contact: vasinfo@nwi.net, 509-663-2778

    Clallam-Jefferson County Pro Bono Lawyers
    Contact: Nancy Rhode, probonolawyers@gmail.com

    Clark County Volunteer Lawyers Program
    Contact: 360-695-5313

    Cowlitz-Wahkiakum Legal Aid
    Contact: Kendra Sprague, cwlap@live.com, 360-425-3430

    Home Foreclosure Legal Aid Project
    Contact: Steve Larsen, stevel@wsba.org, (206) 727-8240

    Housing Justice Project
    Contact: Barbara Harris, cls@kcba.org, 206-267-7028

    Kitsap Legal Services
    Contact: 360-479-6125

    LAW Advocates
    Contact: Terra Nevitt, terra@lawadvocates.org, 360-671-6079 ext. 24

    Legal Information and Referral Line Volunteer
    Contact: June Krumpotick, Lead Paralegal, jkrumpotick@legalvoice.org, 206-682-9552 ext 105

    Lewis County Bar Legal Aid
    Contact: Larry Cook, lclegalaid@localaccess.com, (360) 748-9884

    Neighborhood Legal Clinics
    Contact: Rebecca Fogarty, NLC Program Manager, cls@kcba.org, 206-267-7029

    Northwest Fair Housing Alliance
    Contact: Marley Eichstaedt, marley@nwfairhouse.org, 509-325-2665 Ext. 0#

    Northwest Justice Project
    Contact: 206-464-1519

    Skagit County Community Action Agency Volunteer Lawyer Services Program
    Contact: Catherine Brown, catherineb@skagitcap.org

    Snohomish County Legal Services
    Contact: Anita Hale, anitah@snocolegal.org, (425) 258-9283 ext. 22

    Spokane County Bar Association Volunteer Lawyers Program
    Contact: Jnette Smith, jsmith@spokanebar.org, 509-462-3701

    Tacoma Pierce County Bar Association Volunteer Legal Services Program
    Contact: Laurie Davenport, Director, vls@tacomaprobono.org, 253-572-5134

    Tacoma-Pierce County Housing Justice Project
    Contact: Joanne Haffly, joanneh@tacomaprobono.org, (253) 572-5134

    Tacoma-Pierce County Lawhelp Center
    Contact: Joanne Haffly, joanneh@tacomaprobono.org, (253) 572-5134

    Thurston County Volunteer Legal Services
    Contact: Bruce Conklin, tcvlegal@hotmail.com, 360-705-8194

    Volunteer Attorneys for Persons with HIV/AIDS
    Contact: Connie Ritchie, cls@kcba.org, 206-267-7100

    Volunteer Lawyer Program of Island County
    Contact: Amanda Dozier, director@vlpic.org, 360-675-4750

    Volunteer Legal Services
    Contact: Karen Clark, Staff Attorney, cls@kcba.org, 206-267-7024

    Washington Coalition of Sexual Assault Programs
    Contact: Catherine Carroll, Legal Director, catherine@wcsap.org, 360-754-7583

    Whitman County Legal Services
    Contact: Gene Siple, genes@cacwhitman.com, (509) 338-4255

    Yakima County Volunteer Attorney Services
    Contact: Claudia Garza, cgarza@yakimavas.org, 509-453-4400


    Canít find a pro bono lawyer to help you?
    Try http://www.mywsba.org/Default.aspx?tabid=177 and see if you can find a lawyer there!
    Lifetime member, Gun Owners of America (http://gunowners.org/)
    Lifetime member, Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership (http://jpfo.org/)
    Member, Fraternal Order of Eagles since 8/02 (http://www.foe.com/)

    Registering gun owners to prevent crime, is like registering Jews to prevent a HOLOCAUST.

    I am not a lawyer in real life, or in play life. So anything I say is for debate and discussion only.

  19. #19
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    I have a good friend in SpoVegas that's a practicing attorney, only does civil cases. If you'd like, I'll call him tomorrow sometime and see if he would be willing to provide you some advice (I have no idea of his caseload though).
    "There is NO timer in a gunfight, but there IS another guy with a gun, and he's probably in a hurry!"- from someone who bothered to go and check

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    What Skid said.

    In typical blufferese, they tossed in some serious-sounding criminal terms from the RCWs, hoping to scare you into complying short of the long and expensive process to actually evict you. From my (limited) understanding of WA law, the accusations they made don't even apply in your case. Even if they did, they have no proof you actually engaged in any threatening behavior, unless there's a lot more you haven't told us.

    So: comply with the letter by not OCing for the next 10 days, and if you're transferring long arms to your car for hunting season, case them or wrap them up from plain sight.

    And by the way, "Pinned to my front door" equals "What letter? I didn't get any letter!"
    FIFY

    OCing, absent any other action or behavior that would be a violation of law - such as brandishing, pointing a gun at someone, shooting, telling someone you are going to shoot them - appears to be perfectly legal in WA. Your lease, if it is "standard", probably gives you the right to access of the common areas of the apartment complex as well as exclusive right of access to your actual apartment. You should be able to both park your car and walk directly to your apartment, and back again, without being molested by some restriction on your behaving in a lawful and peaceable manner. The same holds true for your accessing and enjoying the common areas of the complex - everything from sitting outside your door enjoying the sunshine to walking to and from the laundry room (if there is such) to walking on any sidewalks or paths for the purpose of exercise or relaxation.

    When you talk with any of the suggested resources or with an attorney I urge you NOT to bring 2A violations into this, as that is not a protected right under any housing laws that I am aware of. Further, it would just muddy the water. Stick to the fact that you have not done the specific things they accuse you of doing, and then when the time is right haul out the argument that what they complain you did requires you to do ceretain things with the intention of causing certain reactions, and that you never intended to cause those reactions.

    You cannot be held accountable for how other people might respond to seeing your gun, just as you cannot be held responsible for other people respond when seeing you bring home the cheap brand of toilet paper or the ultra-expensive exclusive brand of beans & weenies. They have a right to get their knickers all twisted and catch a case of the vapors, but since you did nothing to intentionally cause those things to happen no blame for those events and feelings should ever attach to you.

    Or you could cave in to their demands and have to sneak your guns in and out of the house like they were some inherently bad, evil things, and have to go to the park to OC.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  21. #21
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    Since I know Ben I would highly doubt that he threatened anyone, make them prove you threatened someone. If people are frightened by your wearing a properly holstered handgun that is not your fault or your problem. What about when Cops show up are they not allowed on the property with a firearm?

    Would they evict a heavily tattooed 6-8 300 lb biker that always had a scowl on his face because people were afraid of him. Would they evict the black guy that wears a hoodie and pants falling off his hips hat sideways and a tear drop tattoo because someone is afraid of them.

    I would plan on moving in the near future but I would also fight it as much as you possibly can.

    Good Luck Ben you do not deserve this.

    PS Since they are accusing you of something you are not doing you may have a defamation of character law suit that you could file. They can not say things about you that damages your reputation unless they are true. That person that filed the police report may have also defamed you depending on what they said, police reports are great in court BTW.
    Last edited by Jeff Hayes; 10-05-2013 at 10:13 AM.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    Re: Eviction Notice for Open Carrying in Spokane

    Have you seen the police report that was filed against you? Was the complaint just for open carrying or did you get into any verbal altercations with another tenant? From the letter it sounds like something more is going on than merely open carrying.

    As much as I love a good fight you might really want to think about your options and what the repercussions could be. If you fight it and are evicted you will find getting a new place nearly impossible. Is that something you and the wife can live with? If there is anything else going on besides just oc'ing I'm sure you will have a hard time winning in court. Whether any other allegations are true or not it will be your word against theirs. I'm sure the court wouldn't come down in favor of the person oc'ing.

    I'd also check with the ACLU. They love civil rights violations and although they seem generally anti-gun they might offer some advice.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member bennie1986's Avatar
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    I spoke with the police and there is no record of a report being filed.
    Last edited by bennie1986; 10-05-2013 at 01:52 PM.

  24. #24
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    See if the folks here http://www.nwcdl.org/ can provide you with info or direct assistance or a referral for assistance.
    Sorry but NWCDL never took off and got the backing needed.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennie1986 View Post
    I spoke with the police and there is no record of a report being filed.
    Which is the surest proof of management's reckless exaggerations about boisterous and threatening conduct.

    Very few people would omit to call the police if actually threatened with a gun. The fact police haven't come banging on your door to question you in connection to "threats" with a gun speaks volumes.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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