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Thread: The CC Only bunch shoot themselves in the foot.

  1. #1
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    The CC Only bunch shoot themselves in the foot.

    They ( the NRA and ISRA ) have not learned that begging the anti's for concealed carry as a privilege works better if Open Carry is a right.

    I commented on a post over at GSL. Here is a link to the article:

    http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=9626

    Here is my comment:


    Greed! The concealed carry only bunch running this show couldn’t seem to read the law, and Judge Posner slapped them down with justification.

    In the People vs Agular the court was clear that Illinois residents have a right to bear arms outside the home. They also said the state could regulate but not deny those rights. The concealed carry only bunch driving this bus stupidly asked Judge Posner to change a timetable on a regulation over concealed carry rather than saying, yes, concealed carry is regulated but as of now denied so until the ISP starts handing out privilege cards we want OPEN CARRY because that is our RIGHT.

    If some sort of carry outside the home is a right, and if concealed carry is already law, but that law still prohibits any carry, then OPEN CARRY is necessary.

    The end result of that strategy almost certainly would have been two fold. First we would be able to open carry today. Secondly, the ISP would go into high gear approving concealed carry permits to minimize their irrational fear of open carry.

    But no, the organizations that brought their hopeless argument back to Judge Posner hate open carry as a right almost as much as the most rabid anti’s. There is no training money in a right after all.

    So, because of this prejudice and their wish to trade rights for privileges, the ISP is now emboldened to take as long as possible to issue carry licenses. Next July when both of the ISP permit examiners are on number 24 out of 300,000 you all know who to blame, and be happy that the right of un-licensed open carry will not compete with the paid training and licensed concealed carry privilege cards.

    Judge Posner was right.
    Last edited by kurt555gs; 10-05-2013 at 02:06 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Agreed 1000%.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    NRA and ISRA certainly screwed the pooch on this. They completely ruined a monumental opportunity in their greed. It is unfortunate the gun owning public fell for the home rule scare tactic.
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    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Given the fact the Chicago police superintendent practically promised his officers would end up shooting law abiding gun carriers because of his training, I don't think I would OC even if allowed there. He said his officers have shot people who didn't even have a gun before, and with their training, he couldn't expect them to spend too much time trying to discern if the individual with a gun is a criminal or law abiding.

    http://gunsnfreedom.com/chicago-poli...-his-training/

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    Re: The CC Only bunch shoot themselves in the foot.

    There is more of Illinois than just Chicago.

    Gort. Klaatu barada nikto.

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    Regular Member Medic1210's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs View Post
    There is more of Illinois than just Chicago.

    Gort. Klaatu barada nikto.
    Of this I am well aware. My thoughts, not that it matters, is if one of the bigger department heads basically threatens to shoot armed citizens, is anybody naive enough to believe there aren't many more that share his belief? Not saying it's right. Not saying anybody should be intimidated into not exercising their rights, I can just only imagine if OC was made law, every single individual seen OC would likely be treated as criminals in an effort to dissuade the practice. Again, that would be precisely why the practice should be done, but you'd definitely need to prepare yourself for the trouble.

    Again, just an observation. Nothing more.

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    Re: The CC Only bunch shoot themselves in the foot.

    Is that how we're supposed to live in this country now? Not under law, but under threat of police officials?

    Gort. Klaatu barada nikto.

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    Would anyone else have legal standing to challenge the lack of OC?

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    The CC Only bunch shoot themselves in the foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by lckstckn2smknbrls View Post
    Would anyone else have legal standing to challenge the lack of OC?
    Anyone?

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Well shouldn't the Aguilar decision provide some precedent to sue for open carry?
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Re: The CC Only bunch shoot themselves in the foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Well shouldn't the Aguilar decision provide some precedent to sue for open carry?
    I don't know. It's almost a certainty than neither the ISRA or NRA would help. I think they knew they could have asked for and gotten open carry last week but they didn't want to see that in Illinois.

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    Perhaps after some time runs and they get a history of not issuing permits the matter can be reattempted.

    Still doing it the hard way.

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    I agree. But this was a missed legal opportunity that works never have been able to be passed in the legislature.

    Gort. Klaatu barada nikto. now Free

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    Re: The CC Only bunch shoot themselves in the foot.

    Quote Originally Posted by kurt555gs View Post
    I agree. But this was a missed legal opportunity that would never have been able to be passed in the legislature.

    Gort. Klaatu barada nikto. now Free


    Gort. Klaatu barada nikto. now Free

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Kurt - there is a time and place for both. While I like the idea of CC so that we don't scare the sheeple and start a stampede, I also like the deterrent effect on potential BGs by having OC.
    I just think that certain places such as churches, hospitals, sit-down restaurants, sporting events, etc. aren't the best places to OC.
    I disagree, I OC'd for years in a hospital, though it was in uniform and it did not raise eyebrows. I ate in restaurant went in bars, restaurants, sporting events. All with a sidearm clearly visible. The public accepts police open carry, there is no reason for them not to accept citizen open carry.

    In our state every CHP issued is another nail in the coffin to freedom. Getting permission to hide a tool is not freedom whether open or concealed. Unfortunately Illinois does not have any option to freedom, some would like to do the same to NC.
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    I prefer open carry. I do CC sometimes when I feel it's appropriate. I like having the choice to be mine. When Illinois finally starts using CCL licenses, CC will be the only choice here. That's just wrong

    Gort. Klaatu barada nikto. now Free

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    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I disagree, I OC'd for years in a hospital, though it was in uniform and it did not raise eyebrows. I ate in restaurant went in bars, restaurants, sporting events. All with a sidearm clearly visible. The public accepts police open carry, there is no reason for them not to accept citizen open carry.

    In our state every CHP issued is another nail in the coffin to freedom. Getting permission to hide a tool is not freedom whether open or concealed. Unfortunately Illinois does not have any option to freedom, some would like to do the same to NC.
    Agreed. @JTHunter Here in Michigan two nights ago five of my friends and I had dinner in a bar/restaurant OC'ing(two were fullsized revolvers). No one cared. We were leaving I found a pair of reading glasses on the floor next to a table of elderly people. When I handed them back they smiled and repeatedly thanked me. No one was scared of our OC because of others having beer. I see no logical reasons why it's OK to carry some places but not others. Some must think our personality will change depending on location. [eyeroll]
    Last edited by Golden Eagle; 10-14-2013 at 01:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Kurt - there is a time and place for both. While I like the idea of CC so that we don't scare the sheeple and start a stampede, I also like the deterrent effect on potential BGs by having OC.
    I just think that certain places such as churches, hospitals, sit-down restaurants, sporting events, etc. aren't the best places to OC.
    Think whatever you like. The law should not match your thinking, mandating your thoughts to be the rule which others must follow.

    The government should only be in the business of resolving disputes between property owners and gun owners. If no dispute is manifest then no government involvement is required.

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    No, you posted a statement of fact to Kurt.

    Kurt - there is a time and place for both.
    Others disagree with your opinion. If you had said "I think there should be....." or "I choose to OC or CC based on the situation....." then I would not have posted anything.

    The thing with ___________ (insert alternate location here) is that there are people there on drugs, sick and delirious with fever, as well as other sheeple that would possibly have an anxiety attack that could even conceivably result in a heart attack. This presents a "high risk" environment that could have undesirable problems and consequences.
    Hospitals are not the only place.....

  20. #20
    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    It does seem like all my friends think OC is world ending. What's strange is we live in a OC state (with HCP). They get really mad if i try to explain OC. Oh well. The typical argument is that ill be the first one shot. i digress and think most criminals will move along for easier prey.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    It does seem like all my friends think OC is world ending. What's strange is we live in a OC state (with HCP). They get really mad if i try to explain OC. Oh well. The typical argument is that ill be the first one shot. i digress and think most criminals will move along for easier prey.
    Now this is worthy of a +1.

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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    As we predicted: http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/403...up-in-Illinois

    "I've heard anywhere from 200 plus in Madison County to 600 in Chicago for these classes"

    $600? I could get a new Glock for that price.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    I had stated in my earlier post that I thought there were certain places that weren't "appropriate" for OC. [B]Nowhere did I say it shouldn't [I]be done or should be outlawed by the state.
    The thing with hospitals is that there are people there on drugs, sick and delirious with fever, as well as other sheeple that would possibly have an anxiety attack that could even conceivably result in a heart attack. This presents a "high risk" environment that could have undesirable problems and consequences.
    The open carry of the means to defend the life of oneself and others provides the same deterrent value of police officers wearing distinctive uniforms, badges, and arms.


    The wolf doesn't attack when he can see the hound, and a hound dressed as a sheep is no deterrence.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 10-23-2013 at 08:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    As we predicted: http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/403...up-in-Illinois

    "I've heard anywhere from 200 plus in Madison County to 600 in Chicago for these classes"

    $600? I could get a new Glock for that price.
    It retarded to require classes to begin with ~ the state clearly can limit the # of instructors to limit the # of permits -- IL screwed up big time in passing the law -- should have just let it become constitutional carry, as it should be.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    It retarded to require classes to begin with ~ the state clearly can limit the # of instructors to limit the # of permits -- IL screwed up big time in passing the law -- should have just let it become constitutional carry, as it should be.
    NRA and ILRA used scare tactics claiming home rule would outlaw carry. What people failed to take into account home rule can only enact misdemeanor laws. Home rule would have had little to no teeth. The IL gun owners fell for the line hook and sinker.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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