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The CC Only bunch shoot themselves in the foot.

kurt555gs

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They ( the NRA and ISRA ) have not learned that begging the anti's for concealed carry as a privilege works better if Open Carry is a right.

I commented on a post over at GSL. Here is a link to the article:

http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=9626

Here is my comment:


Greed! The concealed carry only bunch running this show couldn’t seem to read the law, and Judge Posner slapped them down with justification.

In the People vs Agular the court was clear that Illinois residents have a right to bear arms outside the home. They also said the state could regulate but not deny those rights. The concealed carry only bunch driving this bus stupidly asked Judge Posner to change a timetable on a regulation over concealed carry rather than saying, yes, concealed carry is regulated but as of now denied so until the ISP starts handing out privilege cards we want OPEN CARRY because that is our RIGHT.

If some sort of carry outside the home is a right, and if concealed carry is already law, but that law still prohibits any carry, then OPEN CARRY is necessary.

The end result of that strategy almost certainly would have been two fold. First we would be able to open carry today. Secondly, the ISP would go into high gear approving concealed carry permits to minimize their irrational fear of open carry.

But no, the organizations that brought their hopeless argument back to Judge Posner hate open carry as a right almost as much as the most rabid anti’s. There is no training money in a right after all.

So, because of this prejudice and their wish to trade rights for privileges, the ISP is now emboldened to take as long as possible to issue carry licenses. Next July when both of the ISP permit examiners are on number 24 out of 300,000 you all know who to blame, and be happy that the right of un-licensed open carry will not compete with the paid training and licensed concealed carry privilege cards.

Judge Posner was right.
 
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WalkingWolf

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NRA and ISRA certainly screwed the pooch on this. They completely ruined a monumental opportunity in their greed. It is unfortunate the gun owning public fell for the home rule scare tactic.
 

Medic1210

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Given the fact the Chicago police superintendent practically promised his officers would end up shooting law abiding gun carriers because of his training, I don't think I would OC even if allowed there. He said his officers have shot people who didn't even have a gun before, and with their training, he couldn't expect them to spend too much time trying to discern if the individual with a gun is a criminal or law abiding.

http://gunsnfreedom.com/chicago-pol...un-carrying-citizens-because-of-his-training/
 

Medic1210

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There is more of Illinois than just Chicago.

Gort. Klaatu barada nikto.

Of this I am well aware. My thoughts, not that it matters, is if one of the bigger department heads basically threatens to shoot armed citizens, is anybody naive enough to believe there aren't many more that share his belief? Not saying it's right. Not saying anybody should be intimidated into not exercising their rights, I can just only imagine if OC was made law, every single individual seen OC would likely be treated as criminals in an effort to dissuade the practice. Again, that would be precisely why the practice should be done, but you'd definitely need to prepare yourself for the trouble.

Again, just an observation. Nothing more.
 

kurt555gs

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Is that how we're supposed to live in this country now? Not under law, but under threat of police officials?

Gort. Klaatu barada nikto.
 

kurt555gs

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Well shouldn't the Aguilar decision provide some precedent to sue for open carry?

I don't know. It's almost a certainty than neither the ISRA or NRA would help. I think they knew they could have asked for and gotten open carry last week but they didn't want to see that in Illinois.

Gort. Klaatu barada nikto. now Free
 

kurt555gs

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I agree. But this was a missed legal opportunity that works never have been able to be passed in the legislature.

Gort. Klaatu barada nikto. now Free
 

WalkingWolf

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Kurt - there is a time and place for both. While I like the idea of CC so that we don't scare the sheeple and start a stampede, I also like the deterrent effect on potential BGs by having OC.
I just think that certain places such as churches, hospitals, sit-down restaurants, sporting events, etc. aren't the best places to OC.

I disagree, I OC'd for years in a hospital, though it was in uniform and it did not raise eyebrows. I ate in restaurant went in bars, restaurants, sporting events. All with a sidearm clearly visible. The public accepts police open carry, there is no reason for them not to accept citizen open carry.

In our state every CHP issued is another nail in the coffin to freedom. Getting permission to hide a tool is not freedom whether open or concealed. Unfortunately Illinois does not have any option to freedom, some would like to do the same to NC.
 

kurt555gs

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I prefer open carry. I do CC sometimes when I feel it's appropriate. I like having the choice to be mine. When Illinois finally starts using CCL licenses, CC will be the only choice here. That's just wrong

Gort. Klaatu barada nikto. now Free
 

Golden Eagle

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I disagree, I OC'd for years in a hospital, though it was in uniform and it did not raise eyebrows. I ate in restaurant went in bars, restaurants, sporting events. All with a sidearm clearly visible. The public accepts police open carry, there is no reason for them not to accept citizen open carry.

In our state every CHP issued is another nail in the coffin to freedom. Getting permission to hide a tool is not freedom whether open or concealed. Unfortunately Illinois does not have any option to freedom, some would like to do the same to NC.

Agreed. @JTHunter Here in Michigan two nights ago five of my friends and I had dinner in a bar/restaurant OC'ing(two were fullsized revolvers). No one cared. We were leaving I found a pair of reading glasses on the floor next to a table of elderly people. When I handed them back they smiled and repeatedly thanked me. No one was scared of our OC because of others having beer. I see no logical reasons why it's OK to carry some places but not others. Some must think our personality will change depending on location. [eyeroll]
 
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OC for ME

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Kurt - there is a time and place for both. While I like the idea of CC so that we don't scare the sheeple and start a stampede, I also like the deterrent effect on potential BGs by having OC.
I just think that certain places such as churches, hospitals, sit-down restaurants, sporting events, etc. aren't the best places to OC.
Think whatever you like. The law should not match your thinking, mandating your thoughts to be the rule which others must follow.

The government should only be in the business of resolving disputes between property owners and gun owners. If no dispute is manifest then no government involvement is required.
 

OC for ME

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No, you posted a statement of fact to Kurt.

Kurt - there is a time and place for both.
Others disagree with your opinion. If you had said "I think there should be....." or "I choose to OC or CC based on the situation....." then I would not have posted anything.

The thing with ___________ (insert alternate location here) is that there are people there on drugs, sick and delirious with fever, as well as other sheeple that would possibly have an anxiety attack that could even conceivably result in a heart attack. This presents a "high risk" environment that could have undesirable problems and consequences.
Hospitals are not the only place.....
 

Kopis

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It does seem like all my friends think OC is world ending. What's strange is we live in a OC state (with HCP). They get really mad if i try to explain OC. Oh well. The typical argument is that ill be the first one shot. i digress and think most criminals will move along for easier prey.
 
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