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Thread: 11/3 Boardman Open Carry Event in Response to Bad Rule

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    Regular Member NEOOpenCarry's Avatar
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    11/3 Boardman Open Carry Event in Response to Bad Rule

    We will be doing an open carry educational meet and greet at Boardman Park in Boardman Ohio, Sunday November 3rd at 1:00p.m. The address for our starting point is 377 Boardman Poland Road, Boardman, OH 44512. We will actually be meeting in the park next to the shopping plaza, but this address is a good GPS reference point.

    This is in response to an unenforceable and illegal rule in the city's parks that should not be there and should be removed. (http://www.boardmanpark.com/Data/Sit...rules-regs.pdf look at rule #14).

    Since 2006,ORC 9.68 has permitted people to carry guns in most public places, including public parks.

    Boardman Metro Parks is prohibiting the carrying of guns in their parks. They were also pretty rude and uncooperative when we informed them of this. This walk is meant to spread education to the people of boardman that this rule is illegal and unenforceable and that they are most certainly allowed to carry into the parks as long as they follow all other state and federal laws.

    We will allow any firearms at this event, handguns or long guns. Open carry is welcome and encouraged.

    Here is the facebook event if you would like to RSVP and stay up to date with any news.
    https://www.facebook.com/#!/events/6...ilter=calendar
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-08-2013 at 07:52 AM. Reason: added date to title
    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” - Thomas Jefferson

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    Funny, I chatted with the head of parks and he said:
    1. The rule is in the process of getting changed
    2. He seemed very polite on the phone

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    Regular Member NEOOpenCarry's Avatar
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    Did you talk to Mr. Slagle? I called the administrative number and talked to someone who did tell me that that rule is on the books there. I told her that under Ohio revised code 9.68 that it would be illegal for them to post no Firearms. She said she didn't really know but she could transfer me to the guy in charge.

    She transferred me to a Mr. Slagle. I confirmed with Mr. Slagle that the parks were publicly owned and not run by a private entity. I told him that under Ohio revised code 9.68 it would be illegal for him to ban firearms in the park. He became extremely annoyed with me and wanted to know what my point was. He asked if I wanted to bring firearms into the park. I told him that I would definitely bring firearms into the park if I was coming With my family, however my main concern was that somebody who does not know about preemption, did not read that rule and not carry because they were confused. I want to make sure we clear up any confusion and amend the rules as such.

    He said that it was not like they checked people as they were coming in to make sure they weren't carrying. I said well what about open carry, would that be enforced if someone were to open carry in the park? His response was who In their right mind would want to open carry a firearm into a park? I responded with I would absolutely open carry a firearm in to a park to protect both myself and my family. I also knew quite a few others who would. And that whether open or concealed, our goal was the same and that was to prevent a crime against our families or ourselves. He said that he did not have time to debate this with me, and I asked him why not? He again became frustrated and said that he had to get back to work that he had real work to do.

    He Then said that it was on the books for that rule to be changed, but he did not know when it would be. I asked him if he could keep me informed when that would be changed, and he told me no just stay informed. I said does that mean just keep calling you back? And he said do what you have to do. He then rushed me off the phone again telling me that he had real work to do and could not spend anymore time on this.

    Maybe it's "going to be changed" sometime, but unless we push the issue, it will sit on the back burner for who knows how long. I talked to him on September 23.
    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” - Thomas Jefferson

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Before people go marching or assembling, I think it would be worthwhile to find out (and post) just who Mr. Slagle is. If he's the head of the public works department, you haven't gone high enough in the food chain. Even if he's the law director or the police chief, you haven't gone high enough, IMHO. You need to communicate with the boss of all of them - city council.

    My suggestion: tell the whole council (via e-mail) of your unsatisfactory conversation with Mr. Slagle, request that they look into the matter and get back to you in a reasonable amount of time. If you want to add a little heat, make it clear that your next step will be to request to be put on the agenda to discuss their inaction. Tell them that if that step is necessary, you will contact all the media you are able to for the occasion, and that at some point following your presentation a group of law-abiding citizens will assemble in their park(s) to further spotlight their refusal to comply with Ohio law.

    I've got a few more suggestions, but those things ought to get their attention.

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    I previously sent e-mails to the entire council... one council member replied that the issue is being handled as we speak. Mr. Slagle is the director of the parks department.

    Also, Boardman's parks are a seperate entity from the City, so claims Mr. Slagle. May need to see exactly how that is all worded out legal-wise...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BriKuz View Post
    I previously sent e-mails to the entire council... one council member replied that the issue is being handled as we speak. Mr. Slagle is the director of the parks department.

    Also, Boardman's parks are a seperate entity from the City, so claims Mr. Slagle. May need to see exactly how that is all worded out legal-wise...
    The park rules refer to Boardman Township, so if that's correct, they aren't city parks, and are probably controlled by the Boardman Township Trustees - so maybe Mr. Slagle is correct, to the extent that they aren't CITY parks.

    However, who appoints the Board of Park commissioners? This is starting to sound like the "agricultural society" dodge.

    <edited to add> I just called the number listed on the "rules & regs" form the OP linked to and found out 1) there is no city of Boardman, and 2) Boardman Township has Trustees (just like Green Township, which recently changed its park rules).
    Last edited by BB62; 10-08-2013 at 03:07 PM.

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    double post
    Last edited by BB62; 10-08-2013 at 03:04 PM.

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    Well, heck, that makes it even easier if they're a Township. ORC 504.04(B)(6)
    (B) No resolution adopted pursuant to this chapter shall do any of the following:
    ..

    (6) Establish regulations affecting hunting, trapping, fishing, or the possession, use, or sale of firearms;

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustJack View Post
    Well, heck, that makes it even easier if they're a Township. ORC 504.04(B)(6)
    More and more it seems like putting a march/open carry event on is jumping the gun.
    Last edited by BB62; 10-08-2013 at 11:12 PM.

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    Yeah, it seems to me that a lot can be done through e-mail and phone to get things resolved, with no extra pressure. We're going to have our Oberlins... but look at Parma, Elyria, etc who are thankful for the point out and jump on changing things...

    We will lose the persuasive capabilities of the walk if we do one every weekend! Also, some people can only make a couple of walks a year... when they get diluted down to two walks per weekend, we don't have the same impact. That being said, i think SOME municipalities NEED a small walk EVERY weekend! lol

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    The Boardman Twp Trustees have a meeting on Oct 15th, maybe attend that and see what can be accomplished. Then, the next meeting is on Oct 28. If you've not gotten satisfactory responses from them by then, or if they blow you off, have your walk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    However, who appoints the Board of Park commissioners?
    The Boardman Township Trustees:
    Brad Calhoun, Tom Costello, and Larry Moliterno

    appoint the Board of Park Commissioners:
    John Jamieson, Joyce Mistovich, and Trent Cailor

    Mr. Daniel Slagle is the Executive Director/Clerk

    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    This is starting to sound like the "agricultural society" dodge.
    It may be an attempt at the "agricultural society" dodge, but it fails for the same reasons.
    http://www.boardmanpark.com/Data/Sit...missioners.pdf
    § 511.23. Powers and duties of board
    (A) When the vote under section 511.22 of the Revised Code is in favor of establishing one or more
    public parks, the board of park commissioners shall constitute a board, to be called the board of park
    commissioners of that township park district, and they shall be a body politic and corporate. Their office is not a
    township office within the meaning of section 703.22 of the Revised Code but is an office of the township park
    district. The members of the board shall serve without compensation but shall be allowed their actual and
    necessary expenses incurred in the performance of their duties
    Plus, as I pointed out, ORC 504.04(B)(6) provides that the Township itself cannot pass legislation that affects firearms, therefore it would stand to reason that a political subdivision of the Township would have even less authority to do so. Even if 9.68 didn't exist, I'm pretty sure a Township Park Board could not legally create a no firearms policy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustJack View Post
    ...It may be an attempt at the "agricultural society" dodge, but it fails for the same reasons.
    http://www.boardmanpark.com/Data/Sit...missioners.pdf...
    Yes, JJ, I know. This is hardly my first rodeo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Yes, JJ, I know. This is hardly my first rodeo.
    1) Didn't say it was, was just responding to your statement

    2) Someone else, who hasn't done this before may read this thread.

    3) Ouch dude, kinda harsh, no? Not that I can read your body language or the vocal inflection of your text, but seems like you slammed the door on me kinda hard there.*


    *Realizing that this is a forum where people speak their mind, I accept that I will occasionally get slammed.

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    Regular Member NEOOpenCarry's Avatar
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    Overall I agree with what everyone is saying, however this walk is more than just a petition to this rule. Overall it is an educational walk, and after talking with quite a few people from the area, Boardman could definitely use some education. People are completely unaware of their rights. I would definitely still like to go pass out flyers and educate people. Bordering right up against Youngstown, I would think most people would be very happy to learn the extent to which they can carry and defend themselves.
    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” - Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOOpenCarry View Post
    Overall I agree with what everyone is saying, however this walk is more than just a petition to this rule. Overall it is an educational walk, and after talking with quite a few people from the area, Boardman could definitely use some education...
    Truth be told, all OC walks are to some extent educational.

    But, I think what I and others are saying is that you put your reputation on the line (or create a reputation over the long term), and dilute the power of your brand by calling for an event "in response to a bad rule", then saying that it's "overall educational". I think you'd be better off separating your events into two groups: 1) educational and 2) protest/educational.

    Otherwise I think you run the risk of a) crying wolf, and/or b) failing to attract anyone outside your area to your "events".

    Just my 2 cents.

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    Regular Member NEOOpenCarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Truth be told, all OC walks are to some extent educational.

    But, I think what I and others are saying is that you put your reputation on the line (or create a reputation over the long term), and dilute the power of your brand by calling for an event "in response to a bad rule", then saying that it's "overall educational". I think you'd be better off separating your events into two groups: 1) educational and 2) protest/educational.

    Otherwise I think you run the risk of a) crying wolf, and/or b) failing to attract anyone outside your area to your "events".

    Just my 2 cents.
    I se what you are saying for sure. It does seem the two are too blended right now. Let me see what I can do. Thank you for the input.
    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” - Thomas Jefferson

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    I would like to participate. I don't think long guns are key to any point here or that boardman cops are bad. I dont' care about people bringing long guns i just want to make sure you guys are nice to bpd as all the guys ive met from there are really cool. I also live in this area and don't want pissed off cops. I think its great that you guy are taking time out to chip back at those chipping at our rights. In this case i don't boardman is wanton in their attack at rights.

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    Regular Member NEOOpenCarry's Avatar
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    Here is the link to the news coverage of the event:

    http://www.wfmj.com/story/23865151/o...ld-in-boardman
    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” - Thomas Jefferson

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    <nevermind - I should have read the story first>
    Last edited by BB62; 11-06-2013 at 06:41 PM.

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