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the battle within

Raggs

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Messages
1,181
Location
Wild Wild West Michigan
This is a quote from another forum, and shows part of the battle gun owners and more Open Carriers have. We are a divided group. "Again, concealed means concealed.... No one should know you have it until it's time to defend your life or that of another."

my reply was - Or carry openly to act as a deterrent?
 

FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
These folks are usually the ones saying "Don't OC, you'll get all our guns taken away!" They are the "chicken little's" of the gun world, as in "the sky is falling! the sky is falling!" They often overlook what history has shown to be false. Take Michigan for example - since 2008, when Open carry advocates started organizing and having gatherings - the complete opposite has happened. One could say accurately, that gun rights for all LAC's there have been boosted by OCer's not harmed. :thumbup:

I have heard many foolish things said about CC vs OC. The worst in my opinion is that CC gives one some kind of tacti-cool magical powers to engage a violent criminal who is already attacking. This is bunk, plain & simple. As Law Abiding Citizens (LAC's) we are always on the defense. To borrow from autosurgeon, why would one use a offensive tactic in a defensive situation? We cannot engage first, we must wait until after the criminal has made the first move. Why not discourage that first move by OCing & presenting a "hardened target" vs just looking like any joe average citizen, unarmed and easy to prey upon? :confused:

I have nothing against CC. I do it daily. It compliments my OC. My CC pistols are there should something go all "$hit hit the fan". My OC pistol(s) are there hopefully to help me avoid such SHTF events. :eek:
 

Haman J.T.

New member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,245
Location
, ,
This battle between the Pro OC folks and anti OC folks is as old as history. It's between those who "Understand God Given Rights" and those who "live in Fear" of government/PC society Control (Tyrrany)! Pro OC folks "Understand" their "Rights", which ARE 24/7 since birth, where the anti OC folks "Fear" upsetting the "Tyrranical government/PC" folks, who wish to "Control" Us FREE PEOPLE! It's just the difference between "Understanding TRUE FREEDOM" and "NOT Understanding TRUE FREEDOM"!! CARRY ON!
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
This is a quote from another forum, and shows part of the battle gun owners and more Open Carriers have. We are a divided group. "Again, concealed means concealed.... No one should know you have it until it's time to defend your life or that of another."

my reply was - Or carry openly to act as a deterrent?
Not only would I like for you to feel free to use the following in any discussion concerning the stupid fish (dum bass) CC vs OC argument.. I wish everyone would use it all across the entire internet and at least get rid of the totally stupid "element of surprise" crap myth.......

-------------

About that "element of surprise" thing..........

CC and OC have the very same "element of surprise" because the "element of surprise" is really nothing more than the bad guy being "surprised" to discover his intended victim ..... has a gun.

With CC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with after the bad guy has already chosen his victim and the attack is already in progress and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide to stop the attack.

With OC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with during the bad guy's choosing a victim process and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide not to attack at all.

But either way... it was the bad guy being "surprised" to see a gun that was the actual "element of surprise".

Quite frankly... I'd prefer the bad guy be "surprised" to see my openly carried gun and decide not to attack me so I can go home and watch the 6 o'clock news coverage .... from the comfort of my easy chair..... about the CC'er who had to pull his gun and "surprise" the bad guy who attacked him.

Does OC's "element of surprise" really work? Well.... there have been thousands of folks open carrying in many States (Like Arizona) for decades! and yet accounts of folks OC'ing being attacked are rare. And you know with the anti gun media any incident involving an open carrier being attacked would be covered over and over and over yet such has not been the case in the past nor is it now.

And, in my not so humble opinion, because CC's use of the "element of surprise" is only effective after the attack has begun but OC's use of the "element of surprise" can prevent an attack from happening............. OC's use of the "element of surprise" is far superior to CC's because....

I'd much rather watch the 6 o'clock news than to BE the news.
 

fozzy71

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
921
Location
Roseville, Michigan, USA
Even if I hadn't seen that quote on the other forum in question I would have known exactly which site and which sub-forum it came from. :banghead:
 

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
The problem in my opinion comes down to collectivism, and the people who flock towards it as a life style due to being insecure little wusses who are prone towards trying to boost their ego's by being down on others via the ideas and actions of a collective of some sort (NRA, 1911 fanatics, etc..) which is something that simply plagues most parts of gun culture, and our slice of the pie has turned into no exception. Great leaders can fight through it and make things happen, but generally, it is a road block which is very tough to pass.

since 2008, when Open carry advocates started organizing and having gatherings -


Small historic note, it was actually december of 2007. ;)
 
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FreeInAZ

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2012
Messages
2,508
Location
Secret Bunker
The problem in my opinion comes down to collectivism, and the people who flock towards it as a life style due to being insecure little wusses who are prone towards trying to boost their ego's by being down on others via the ideas and actions of a collective of some sort (NRA, 1911 fanatics, etc..) which is something that simply plagues most parts of gun culture, and our slice of the pie has turned into no exception. Great leaders can fight through it and make things happen, but generally, it is a road block which is very tough to pass.




Small historic note, it was actually december of 2007. ;)

Ooops - my bad. Sorry, memory is pretty poor these days. Never thought I'd be an old fart, yet I am! Hey, what were we talking about....where am I.... are the Golden girls on yet or Matlock? :p
 

Kopis

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
674
Location
Nashville, TN
i had a good discussion with a friend at work about CC vs OC. He said, he likes CC because let's say youre OCing and a criminal sees your rolex and gun so he shoots you first.... Im of the opinion that a criminal will wait for the next guy with a rolex who doesnt have a gun! drawing a weapon concealed in close quarters is a lot easier said than done, especially under duress.
 

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
Packing.org - PDO - significantly pre-dated that.

I was just talking about this forum and in Michigan, because even with this forum other states were making progress before us,, but anyway, do you mean in Michigan?

If this is the case, please do tell, because I was never able to log on to that site, it was always down, then it was taken down permanently. It has always felt like I missed out with that site, but I don't really know, because I never got to see it.
 
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marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
I have nothing against CC. I do it daily. It compliments my OC. My CC pistols are there should something go all "$hit hit the fan". My OC pistol(s) are there hopefully to help me avoid such SHTF events. :eek:

Good call.

I'm going to revise my position:

CC can possibly be "tactical", but only when coupled with OC.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
The CC only crowd are looking for a excuse to drop the hammer. OCers are showing all that a hammer could be dropped.

I'm starting to agree, considering how often I hear the illogical, absurd "element of surprise" bromide.

The upshot to the "element of surprise" is that you first get backed into a corner. I wonder about the mindset which considers this a "tactical advantage".
 

22Luke36

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
472
Location
Above and Beyond.
I'm still looking forward to the day when a CCer gets rescued by an OCer who could actually get to his gun. When I think of a CCer fumbling for his gun when he should be drawing it, I honestly get a "Mona Lisa" smile just picturing it.

Please do not link the "Collateral" video snip with Tom Cruise, as you know very well that most people do not practice enough to pull that off without becoming Tex Grebners newest pal.
 
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Evil Creamsicle

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
1,264
Location
Police State, USA
I was just talking about this forum and in Michigan, because even with this forum other states were making progress before us,, but anyway, do you mean in Michigan?

If this is the case, please do tell, because I was never able to log on to that site, it was always down, then it was taken down permanently. It has always felt like I missed out with that site, but I don't really know, because I never got to see it.

Here's a snapshot to sate your curiosity, courtesy of the Wayback Machine.
 
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