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The Next Time an Anti-2Aer Argues Police Will Protect...

C

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
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Location
Fairfax Co., VA
We've got a pretty startling counter-argument if this guys stats and analysis are correct:

Excerpt: "It appears that a person is three times safer with a concealed carry permit holder than they are with a police officer....For the data that we have, police appear to be three times as likely to commit murder as a concealed carry permit holder."

http://www.ammoland.com/2013/10/pol...er-than-concealed-carry-permit/#axzz2hBIaK4wN

Found it here: http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/10/dean-weingarten/cops-more-likely-to-murder
/
 
JustaShooter

JustaShooter

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
728
Location
NE Ohio
"It appears that a person is three times safer with a concealed carry permit holder than they are with a police officer.
Click to expand...

As much as we might like to think it is true, this statement assumes facts not in evidence. Even if the following statement that "police appear to be three times as likely to commit murder as a concealed carry permit holder" is accurate (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) it does not then follow that "a person is three times safer with a concealed carry permit holder than they are with a police officer".

Safety involves much more than a lower risk of being murdered. Is a person three times less likely to be run over by a passing motorist if in the company of a concealed carry permit holder than a police officer? Unlikely. Three times less likely to be mugged? Seems possible you might be more likely to be mugged in the company of a concealed carry permit holder than if you are with a police officer.

It certainly makes nice headlines and teasers for a study though, doesn't it? ;)
 
We-the-People

We-the-People

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2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
JustaShooter said:
As much as we might like to think it is true, this statement assumes facts not in evidence. Even if the following statement that "police appear to be three times as likely to commit murder as a concealed carry permit holder" is accurate (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) it does not then follow that "a person is three times safer with a concealed carry permit holder than they are with a police officer".

Safety involves much more than a lower risk of being murdered. Is a person three times less likely to be run over by a passing motorist if in the company of a concealed carry permit holder than a police officer? Unlikely. Three times less likely to be mugged? Seems possible you might be more likely to be mugged in the company of a concealed carry permit holder than if you are with a police officer.

It certainly makes nice headlines and teasers for a study though, doesn't it? ;)
Click to expand...

That's kind of nit picky but I see your point. The statement needs to be reworded to something along the lines of "three times less likely to be murdered by a CCW holder than a police officer". This would be confounded however by the particular conditions present in EACH case for both CCW holders and police officers.

It would make for a good study and I just happen to be in a CCJ research course and looking for a research project to propose......strangely, we won't actually be doing any research, just proposing a study. Sheeeesh.
 
M

MattinWA

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
278
Location
Spokane Washington
Citizen said:
That question should go to Dean Weingarten or Radley Balko for data collection and analysis.

I'd love to see the answer.
Click to expand...

Lol data collection... do you really need data collection for an answer...
if concealed carry permit holders instigated violence, anti gunners would have the story as front page news, yet how often is it heard about.

Police... well...
 
carolina guy

carolina guy

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Jun 21, 2012
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Concord, NC
I suppose if someone really wanted to stir the pot, they should compile some crime stats (not just murder) based upon political affiliation.
 
davidmcbeth

davidmcbeth

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Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Citizen said:
We've got a pretty startling counter-argument if this guys stats and analysis are correct:

Excerpt: "It appears that a person is three times safer with a concealed carry permit holder than they are with a police officer....For the data that we have, police appear to be three times as likely to commit murder as a concealed carry permit holder."

http://www.ammoland.com/2013/10/pol...er-than-concealed-carry-permit/#axzz2hBIaK4wN

Found it here: http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/10/dean-weingarten/cops-more-likely-to-murder
/
Click to expand...

In my home state, just as many cops killed state troopers as did non-cop-criminals....
 
Fallschirjmäger

Fallschirjmäger

Active member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
3,823
Location
Cumming, Georgia, USA
davidmcbeth said:
In my home state, just as many cops killed state troopers as did non-cop-criminals....
Click to expand...

We-the-People said:
I'd LOVE a reliable source on that.....something acceptable in a scholarly paper.... It could make a very interesting tidbit in one of my school assignments.
Click to expand...
May not be that hard...

What is his home state?
How many state troopers were killed in 2012, or whatever year is in question?
Was it determined who the state trooper was killed by?

If there were 2 troopers killed and one was an accidental shooting by a local officer then yeah, local cops could be stated as being 'just as dangerous' to troopers as anyone else.
 
eye95

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Fallschirmjäger said:
May not be that hard...

What is his home state?
How many state troopers were killed in 2012, or whatever year is in question?
Was it determined who the state trooper was killed by?

If there were 2 troopers killed and one was an accidental shooting by a local officer then yeah, local cops could be stated as being 'just as dangerous' to troopers as anyone else.
Click to expand...

He won't put it in his profile, but if he is trying to hide it from us he ain't (not all that surprising) all that good at it. He is from Connecticut. Can't you smell his mom's basement in all his posts?


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<o>
 
We-the-People

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
eye95 said:
The Connecticut troll backing up a "fact" that he asserted?! Too funny!
Click to expand...

I figured I would ask. I generally do when such an assertion is made. If no source is provided, then I figure there isn't one available or the person making the statement doesn't care enough to find it. Either way, without a source, I give zero credibility. With a source, it depends on the source cited. You would be surprised how many times I've seen Wikipedia or "Ask.com" cited in COLLEGE papers at the upper division (junior/senior) level.
 
eye95

eye95

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Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
We-the-People said:
I figured I would ask. I generally do when such an assertion is made. If no source is provided, then I figure there isn't one available or the person making the statement doesn't care enough to find it. Either way, without a source, I give zero credibility. With a source, it depends on the source cited. You would be surprised how many times I've seen Wikipedia or "Ask.com" cited in COLLEGE papers at the upper division (junior/senior) level.
Click to expand...

I recommend assigning zero credibility solely on account of who posted the "fact."


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