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Thread: SWIFTMUD camping open carry question

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    SWIFTMUD camping open carry question

    Hi guys, I hope someone can help me out here. I am going to be going camping several days on Southwest Florida Water Management District (SWIFTMUD) property which has many properties in the Central Florida area with a total of 33 campsites open to the public for no cost. My concern is that their website states (link) that The Following Are Not Allowed *"Firearms or other similar equipment, unless during designated hunts or as otherwise provided by law." Now would the portion of ..."as otherwise provided by law." be the part where I'm legally allowed to open carry? I will be camping and hiking for three days. I would call their office, to straight out ask, but I didn't want to get some office space dude who just said "no guns sir" without a care.
    Thank you in advance for any advice.
    Cheers

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO,

    It looks like they cannot stop you from OCing, there is no exception for them in the preemption law.

    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...s/0790.33.html
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    I have the same questiion.....

    Preemption?? by Southwest Florida Water Management District

    I came upon this SWFWMD posted sign during a recent hike. The fourth bullet point down cited Florida Administrative Code 40D-9 FAC regarding firearms at this specific conservation site? Any legal eagles here aware of any written FL statue 790.33 exceptions hidden within the entire text of the 2013 Florida Statutes which gives SWFWMD the authority to post this gibberish? Thanks in advance for the replies !! Apparently the picture cannot be enlarged, so I'll include the language in question.

    The following are PROHIBITED on SWFWMD lands pursuant to Chapter 40D-9, F.A.C.

    >Firearms except during designated hunts or as otherwise provided by law
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by 2OLD2W8; 10-10-2013 at 07:40 AM.
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    F.A.C. has revised Chapter 40D-9 to remove the word firearm to conform with F.S. 790.33.
    SWFWMD continues to maintain signs posting a firearm prohibition under this code.


    I think SWFWMD is violating F.S. 790.33 by posting anything related to firearms under the umbrella of F.A.C. 40D-9.
    F.A.C. has zero,nada,zilch..... bearing on firearms in Florida!

    The posting of this misinformation is misleading to say the least and downright underhanded! Anything from F.A.C. about firearms is irrelevant...

    Maybe it should read.....The possession of firearms on this conservation parcel is regulated by the State of Florida per Florida Statutes Chapter 790
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by DukeStockton View Post
    Hi guys, I hope someone can help me out here. I am going to be going camping several days on Southwest Florida Water Management District (SWIFTMUD) property which has many properties in the Central Florida area with a total of 33 campsites open to the public for no cost. My concern is that their website states (link) that The Following Are Not Allowed *"Firearms or other similar equipment, unless during designated hunts or as otherwise provided by law." Now would the portion of ..."as otherwise provided by law." be the part where I'm legally allowed to open carry? I will be camping and hiking for three days. I would call their office, to straight out ask, but I didn't want to get some office space dude who just said "no guns sir" without a care.
    Thank you in advance for any advice.
    Cheers
    The website and signs do not accurately represent current SWFWMD regulations (contained in the Florida Administrative Code) nor applicable Florida Statutes.

    You should call them and ask them to correct their posted information as it is misleading and likely unlawful.

    You may carry any firearm (handgun or long gun) openly or concealed (no need for a CWFL) while camping of SWFWMD property open to the public.

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    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    **update**

    SWIFTMUD/Tampa Service Office has been notified of the misleading "firearms information" posted on their signs at the East Track conservation area (Rockridge Road) in Polk county Fl. I will now set back with an iced tea and watch the wheels of government move. I will post again should I receive an update.
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    SWIFTMUD/Tampa Service Office has been notified of the misleading "firearms information" posted on their signs at the East Track conservation area (Rockridge Road) in Polk county Fl. I will now set back with an iced tea and watch the wheels of government move. I will post again should I receive an update.
    Better have a pitcher handy and perhaps some snacks. You might be in for a long weight.

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    Wow, Thanks folks. Glad I found this forum, tons of interesting information. I feel much more confident with the citations you've all pointed out.
    I thank you again, I'll check back to see if you ever get an answer from SWIFTMUD.

    2OLD2W8 I have come across the same signs in my area BUT the line has been physically and intentionally scratched out. Odd eh?

    Thank you! Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Better have a pitcher handy and perhaps some snacks. You might be in for a long weight.

    I never expect a timely response from any government agency....that way I never get frustrated. I have a couple of family members that are employed by the STATE. I am aware!!!!!!!!!
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by DukeStockton View Post
    Wow, Thanks folks. Glad I found this forum, tons of interesting information. I feel much more confident with the citations you've all pointed out.
    I thank you again, I'll check back to see if you ever get an answer from SWIFTMUD.

    2OLD2W8 I have come across the same signs in my area BUT the line has been physically and intentionally scratched out. Odd eh?

    Thank you! Cheers.

    DukeStockton, Your welcome sir. Glad to have you on board. If you know of any other Floridians in your circle of life that may benefit from opencarryforum.org, point them here.

    POWER IN NUMBERS
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Yep

    Hey guys..

    New to the forum, and I figured this would be a good time to chime in... I had the same question about this land. My friends and I frequently take advantage of the land and do some hiking and camping. At first I would try to hide my pistol when around other hikers/campers, but I was still nervous about it. So I sent an email to the administration asking them their position on open carry while camping/fishing. A very pleasant lady (land manager) replied saying "The Florida law applies to our land as well. Open carry is ok." Now I carry around a copy of that email whenever I go out there just in case someone wants to give me an issue..

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    Good to know Lancer. I look forward to my first open carry experience next month.
    Cheers.

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    Have fun man! We're heading out there for a hike and overnight stay this weekend.. Against my better judgement I'm going to try a drop leg holster for my glock 19 on the hike this weekend.. I have a feeling it's not going to be very comfortable after a few miles.. But I'm stubborn, and want to see what happens..

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    Hiking Repercussions.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer-86 View Post
    Have fun man! We're heading out there for a hike and overnight stay this weekend.. Against my better judgement I'm going to try a drop leg holster for my glock 19 on the hike this weekend.. I have a feeling it's not going to be very comfortable after a few miles.. But I'm stubborn, and want to see what happens..
    You wrote on the hike this weekend.. , If that means to and from the campsite, then your good to go...... If your intending to hike in addition to the travel to and from the campsite you may if caught in the act, encounter legal resistance and the subsequent repercussions.

    Just a heads up........... Hiking in and of itself is not listed as a legal activity under F.S. 790.25 (3)h while a person is engaged in the open carry of a firearm.

    2013 Florida Statute 790.25 (3) LAWFUL USES.—The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;
    Last edited by 2OLD2W8; 10-17-2013 at 09:17 AM.
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    That is absolutely true. But we will be using a site deep in the land, and will be hiking a few miles to get there.. Once there we'll explore a bit, but nothing too far from the tents. Once out there and the tents are set up we'll be considered camping. You're not just camping when you're at your site.. I wouldn't go out and open carry just for a hike however. Then you're asking for trouble..

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    You wrote on the hike this weekend.. , If that means to and from the campsite, then your good to go...... If your intending to hike in addition to the travel to and from the campsite you may if caught in the act, encounter legal resistance and the subsequent repercussions.

    Just a heads up........... Hiking in and of itself is not listed as a legal activity under F.S. 790.25 (3)h while a person is engaged in the open carry of a firearm.

    2013 Florida Statute 790.25 (3) LAWFUL USES.—The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

    (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;
    If your intending to hike in addition to the travel to and from the campsite
    Perfectly legal. You're camping, so any travel towards or away from the campsite is OK. It's not restricted to just the site.

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    Devi'ls Advocate?

    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Perfectly legal. You're camping, so any travel towards or away from the campsite is OK. It's not restricted to just the site.

    The following statements and questions are not to be construed as an attempt to RUFFLE FEATHERS......

    How far away from said campsite would the travel towards or away from the campsite remain OK under your interpretation?

    So, camping is the prerequisite and qualifying activity that authorizes the camper to open carry while hiking......Hmmmm?????

    Remember.....Devil's advocate here!!!!

    If I set up a tent and associated accoutrements on my rural property at my designated campsite and proceed to hike away in any direction with my openly displayed sidearm ....will I be OK?


    Thanks again for allowing me to play Devil's advocate.

    I have been searching through the archived Florida Statutes regarding open carry while hiking...My mind may be playing tricks on me. I thought hiking was at one time spelled out in the statute. I have gone back to 1997 via online archives with no luck, still need to dig deeper. If I find anything I will post.........
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer-86 View Post
    Have fun man! We're heading out there for a hike and overnight stay this weekend.. Against my better judgement I'm going to try a drop leg holster for my glock 19 on the hike this weekend.. I have a feeling it's not going to be very comfortable after a few miles.. But I'm stubborn, and want to see what happens..
    Yeah drop legs can be a hit or miss thing as far as walking goes. I've found em uncomfortable and cumbersome. They look cool though! Where bouts you going camping? My trip is scheduled for Green Swamp in Dade City.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    How far away from said campsite would the travel towards or away from the campsite remain OK under your interpretation?
    The statute says a camping "excursion". As long as you're camping, you should be able to hike as far as you wish as you're still on the "excursion".


    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    If I set up a tent and associated accoutrements on my rural property at my designated campsite and proceed to hike away in any direction with my openly displayed sidearm ....will I be OK?
    If you're actually camping, then the "excursion" thing still is in play.

    AD
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    Regular Member Ironside's Avatar
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    AD, let me help you out on this one;

    (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to
    or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;


    Ironside
    When those in Government fail to see the danger in too much Government, they become the danger.
    (Original quote by me)

    If we lose the Second Amendment it is only a matter of time before we lose the First Amendment, then the Fourth Amendment and then it is all downhill from there ...

    I've OCed and didn't scare the horses or stampede the women!

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    Regular Member 2OLD2W8's Avatar
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    State intent

    Could camping and hiking be mutually exclusive in this matter,as far as the State is concerned.. Both activities can be accomplished independently of the other. State legislators can certainly muddy the water with the best of intent at heart!!!!
    “We can ignore reality, but we cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand

    "free people ought...to be armed." In so doing we grasp the larger lesson that the ability to defend ourselves is part and parcel to our freedom. George Washington , January 7, 1790

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2OLD2W8 View Post
    Could camping and hiking be mutually exclusive in this matter,as far as the State is concerned.. Both activities can be accomplished independently of the other. State legislators can certainly muddy the water with the best of intent at heart!!!!
    One with common sense would think so, but unfortunately the way the law is written I wouldn't want to go for a hike with my pistol on my belt. It could benefit a hiker just as much a camper to have a firearm readily available.

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    We just went camping at Bear Lake in the Florida Blackwater State Forest. We hiked the connecting trail to Krul Lake State recreation area for the Munson Community Heritage Festival. Neat swinging bridge there. We couldn't camp at Krul because of the festival. I carried concealed since the state illegally banned all firearms and closed the park to camping while it was going on. Nice little festival except for the threat of arrest if they saw my firearm.

    http://www.munsonheritagefestival.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
    AD, let me help you out on this one;

    (h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to
    or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;


    Ironside
    Ironside,

    I just knew that didn't look right when I posted it and even went in and got the actual link to the wording but failed to "paste" it in.

    Arrrrgh.

    AD (I'll try to be more careful in the future)
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  25. #25
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    No problem ... It jumped out at me because I've been arguing for a definition of "expedition" for years now. If "expedition" was defined as " a journey requiring frequent stops for supplies, food, gas or funds while going to or from ..." then open carry would be hassle free while doing our restricted OC activities. It would also eliminate the "directly" phrase that so many want to include in the statute that isn't there.

    rant off/

    Do you think we could get a sponsor to introduce that this year?

    Ironside
    When those in Government fail to see the danger in too much Government, they become the danger.
    (Original quote by me)

    If we lose the Second Amendment it is only a matter of time before we lose the First Amendment, then the Fourth Amendment and then it is all downhill from there ...

    I've OCed and didn't scare the horses or stampede the women!

    It's too late to train when you are in the middle of a gunfight ... (me)

    IDPA SSP/MM

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