SWIFTMUD camping open carry question

State intent

Could camping and hiking be mutually exclusive in this matter,as far as the State is concerned.. Both activities can be accomplished independently of the other. State legislators can certainly muddy the water with the best of intent at heart!!!!

2OLD2W8 said:

Could camping and hiking be mutually exclusive in this matter,as far as the State is concerned.. Both activities can be accomplished independently of the other. State legislators can certainly muddy the water with the best of intent at heart!!!!

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One with common sense would think so, but unfortunately the way the law is written I wouldn't want to go for a hike with my pistol on my belt. It could benefit a hiker just as much a camper to have a firearm readily available.

We just went camping at Bear Lake in the Florida Blackwater State Forest. We hiked the connecting trail to Krul Lake State recreation area for the Munson Community Heritage Festival. Neat swinging bridge there. We couldn't camp at Krul because of the festival. I carried concealed since the state illegally banned all firearms and closed the park to camping while it was going on. Nice little festival except for the threat of arrest if they saw my firearm.

http://www.munsonheritagefestival.com

Ironside said:

AD, let me help you out on this one;

(h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to
or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;


Ironside

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Ironside,

I just knew that didn't look right when I posted it and even went in and got the actual link to the wording but failed to "paste" it in.

Arrrrgh.

AD (I'll try to be more careful in the future)

No problem ... It jumped out at me because I've been arguing for a definition of "expedition" for years now. If "expedition" was defined as " a journey requiring frequent stops for supplies, food, gas or funds while going to or from ..." then open carry would be hassle free while doing our restricted OC activities. It would also eliminate the "directly" phrase that so many want to include in the statute that isn't there.

rant off/

Do you think we could get a sponsor to introduce that this year?

Ironside

Ironside said:

If "expedition" was defined as " a journey requiring frequent stops for supplies, food, gas or funds while going to or from ..." then open carry would be hassle free while doing our restricted OC activities. It would also eliminate the "directly" phrase that so many want to include in the statute that isn't there.

rant off/

Do you think we could get a sponsor to introduce that this year?

Ironside

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Ironside,

That would solve a lot of my "problems" with my daily open carry routine for sure.

AD

2OLD2W8 said:

The following statements and questions are not to be construed as an attempt to RUFFLE FEATHERS......

How far away from said campsite would the travel towards or away from the campsite remain OK under your interpretation?

So, camping is the prerequisite and qualifying activity that authorizes the camper to open carry while hiking......Hmmmm?????

Remember.....Devil's advocate here!!!!

If I set up a tent and associated accoutrements on my rural property at my designated campsite and proceed to hike away in any direction with my openly displayed sidearm ....will I be OK?


Thanks again for allowing me to play Devil's advocate.

I have been searching through the archived Florida Statutes regarding open carry while hiking...My mind may be playing tricks on me. I thought hiking was at one time spelled out in the statute. I have gone back to 1997 via online archives with no luck, still need to dig deeper. If I find anything I will post.........

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Sorry for the late reply. I was out camping and on a hunting expedition.

How far away from said campsite would the travel towards or away from the campsite remain OK under your interpretation?

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Very good question. I think as long as you are, in fact, camping you can open carry. Now reasonableness has to come into play somewhere, right. Using the provision for open carry in 790.25(3) just so you can open carry is asking, no begging to invite the man into your life! - 'ain't nobody got time for that!

If I set up a tent and associated accoutrements on my rural property at my designated campsite and proceed to hike away in any direction with my openly displayed sidearm ....will I be OK?

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A lot is going to depend on the area, the LEO, etc.

I routinely open carry from the time I leave the house until I get back home at the end of the hunting expedition. My camping is almost always part of a hunting expedition.

This sometimes includes any side trips that occur during the expedition. Depending on where we are and if I think about it, I'll grab a cover shirt. Sometimes I don't think about it and open carry into town. Again it all depends on the area.

I don't use it as an excuse just to open carry. Sometimes, it's just easier to not worry about covering up.

Been doing this for over 30 years and never had a negative encounter with locals or LEO. That could also be the areas I choose to hunt in too.

We (and the courts will) have to presume that the legislature used the phrase 'lawful hunting expedition' instead of just 'hunting' for a reason. They clearly intended to include traveling from place to place (and not just to/from) while hunting and getting fuel/supplies is an integral part of an expedition.

Mas49.56 said:

We just went camping at Bear Lake in the Florida Blackwater State Forest. We hiked the connecting trail to Krul Lake State recreation area for the Munson Community Heritage Festival. Neat swinging bridge there. We couldn't camp at Krul because of the festival. I carried concealed since the state illegally banned all firearms and closed the park to camping while it was going on. Nice little festival except for the threat of arrest if they saw my firearm.

http://www.munsonheritagefestival.com

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No Pets Allowed! No Alcohol! No Firearms! (State Park Rules)

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They lie!

Pets:

Domestic pets are permitted in designated day-use areas at ALL Florida State Parks.

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http://www.floridastateparks.org/thingstoknow/petpolicy.cfm

Firearms:
No mention of firearms in any of the State Park rules. Why? Because only the Florida legislature may establish regulations regarding firearms.

I carried concealed since the state illegally banned all firearms and closed the park to camping while it was going on. Nice little festival except for the threat of arrest if they saw my firearm.

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Are you saying that the state cannot close camping at a state park? Or are you saying that because of some 'notice' on the Munson Heritage Festival website somehow becomes an illegal ban on firearms? Also, you would only be allowed to open carry if you were, if fact, camping. And since there was no camping allowed at the park, no open carry.

Mas49.56 said:

We just went camping at Bear Lake in the Florida Blackwater State Forest. We hiked the connecting trail to Krul Lake State recreation area for the Munson Community Heritage Festival. Neat swinging bridge there. We couldn't camp at Krul because of the festival. I carried concealed since the state illegally banned all firearms and closed the park to camping while it was going on. Nice little festival except for the threat of arrest if they saw my firearm.

http://www.munsonheritagefestival.com

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Florida Carry is on this. Thanks for the tip.

Rich,

What about my suggestion for adding a legal definition this year that I posted in #25?

Ironside

Ironside said:

Rich,

What about my suggestion for adding a legal definition this year that I posted in #25?

Ironside

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Since the legislature cannot even be bothered to define the word 'brief', I can guarantee you they won't further define 'hunting expedition' or what constitutes 'going to or returning from'.

**signage update**

GOOD NEWS!!!!:banana:

Received verbal confirmation today from the Land Use & Protection Supervisor of the Southwest Florida Water Management District concerning their signs which were previously discussed in this thread. SWIFTMUD Legal Dept. has made the decision; and directed the Land Use & Protection Supervisor to remove the misleading wording after bullet #4. The supervisor stated the work needed to remove or cover up the language would start soon and be completed in 2 to 3 weeks.

The supervisor actually thanked me for bringing this non compliance issue to their attention..... I am totally shocked at how quickly this was handled.

Ironside said:

Rich,

What about my suggestion for adding a legal definition this year that I posted in #25?

Ironside

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Well, it's a technical change. It's possible, but there are much more pressing matters in the legislature this year, i.e. the assault on stand your ground.

If this could slide thru under the radar it would be a huge step forward to allow deminimise stops lacking any case law and eliminate the much misused phrase "directly".

Ironside

2OLD2W8 said:

GOOD NEWS!!!!:banana:

Received verbal confirmation today from the Land Use & Protection Supervisor of the Southwest Florida Water Management District concerning their signs which were previously discussed in this thread. SWIFTMUD Legal Dept. has made the decision; and directed the Land Use & Protection Supervisor to remove the misleading wording after bullet #4. The supervisor stated the work needed to remove or cover up the language would start soon and be completed in 2 to 3 weeks.

The supervisor actually thanked me for bringing this non compliance issue to their attention..... I am totally shocked at how quickly this was handled.

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Thanks for the news, thats really cool!

notalawyer said:

Since the legislature cannot even be bothered to define the word 'brief', I can guarantee you they won't further define 'hunting expedition' or what constitutes 'going to or returning from'.

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I think it covers it already... If a HIKE leads you are from, or towards, then the hike is going to or returning from said camping. If it is seperate, the statue still applies. If it is inclusive, it still applies. A hike is a method of travel no matter how you slice it. Hiking is going somewhere... Derp. We may as well argue if the law still applies if we drive, or parachue in to the camp site. It doesn't really matter. While this may be a common-sense interpretation, it's also pretty tough to argue against it. Even the Kourts of Florida would have a hard time bending that one...

Since the State forces me to live in a perpetual condition of camping (I refuse to relinquish common-sense, thus, it is the only remaining option for shelter), I can OC pretty mcuh anything, all the time, by the book. But, I know better than to expect the Kourts to uphold it.