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Thread: Experience when stopped by memphis police

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Experience when stopped by memphis police

    So i was going to meet up with some friends last night and was zipping down madison in my carrera. Anyway, i forgot a lane ended (ok ill just cut the BS, i really just wanted to grab a gear)! A few seconds later i look back and see blue lights coming up. I rolled the windows down, turned on the lights and put the hazards on. Anyway LEO walks up and i stick my hand out and introduce myself. He refuses to shake my hand and asks for my license. I told him i was armed and was carrying my weapon on my right hand side along with my wallet. Before i could even say anything else, he opens the door, and reaches around and starts tugging on my gun, gets it out and sets it on top the car (very annoying as it was freshly waxed and now probably scratched). I asked if i could reach for my wallet and he give me the go ahead. Got my license but had trouble finding my permit, finally get it out. Anyway, he closes the door and says he's going to run my license and serial number. I was in little position to argue considering how i was driving (i know he didnt radar or laser me but still). He comes back after at least ten minutes and hands my weapon and licenses back to me. He than said, man you are in a pop n stop car or something. I asked him to explain and he said, these guys around here will tap your car, get you to stop then take your ****. I laughed and said, well, thats why i have this glock! He laughed back and said hell yeah, that's your right to defend your ****.

    i've never been disarmed and know he unlawfully ran my SN but i was not in a position to argue. He was cool once he realized i wasnt a thug i guess. should've been fairly obvious considering how i was dressed and what im driving. i was just happy to not get arrested or a fat ticket.

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    Zero chance a cop will take me gun that I have to protect myself from the government. duh.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    well, right or wrong, im still here and not shot to death. WTF am i supposed to do? grab his hand and resist?

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Zero chance a cop will take me gun that I have to protect myself from the government. duh.
    Really. So you would physically resist the officer? You're going to make that orange jumpsuit look GOOD ... if you survive.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Thanks James, my point exactly. right or wrong doesnt matter on the side of the road. Im damn sure not going to resist an officer to prove a point.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    well, right or wrong, im still here and not shot to death. WTF am i supposed to do? grab his hand and resist?
    Kopis, if you stick around, you will quickly learn who to put on your ignore list because of incessant and/or unproductive posts.

    The poster below your initial post on this thread is the one and only person on my ignore list.

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    Regular Member Fallguy's Avatar
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    One reason I don't inform, although have only been stopped 2-3 times since started carrying.

    Now if for some reason I was going to be searched or for some other reason thought the LEO would see it, I would inform before I let them "find" it unannounced. This also why I keep my insurance and registration info on sunvisor instead of glovebox, to keep from having to reach over.

    The law says a LEO can disarm you if he feels it is required for his, your or the public's safety, but it seems some LEOa and LEAs have used this to simply disarm any and all those they deal with regardless.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    i've never been disarmed and know he unlawfully ran my SN but i was not in a position to argue
    I would like to hear your argument as to why you think he "unlawfully" ran your serial number on your weapon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallguy View Post
    The law says a LEO can disarm you...
    I am sure the existence of that law is quite dependent on the jurisdiction. Please cite THAT statute law in your jurisdiction.

    We have only the rights that we defend.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScott31 View Post
    I would like to hear your argument as to why you think he "unlawfully" ran your serial number on your weapon.
    I may be wrong, I thought they had to have reasonable cause to run SNs. It seemed excessive considering I'm in a decent car, titled in my name with a license and permit all matching.

    I'm not really mad, I was just sharing my experience. I had never been disarmed before and without warning like that. Common sense would seem he would inform me that he is about to open my door and grab my firearm.

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    Anyway LEO walks up and i stick my hand out and introduce myself. He refuses to shake my hand and asks for my license.
    This is pretty normal. The cops are trained that shaking someone's hand puts them at a tactical disadvantage.

    I told him i was armed and was carrying my weapon on my right hand side along with my wallet.
    May I suggest that if you feel the need to inform, that you try a different method? If you choose to inform, then do so by simply handing the officer both your driver's license and permit, with the latter on top. Believe me, I have personal experience with this and they get the idea. This also avoids the possibility of them misunderstanding your words or freaking out when you tell them you have a gun. For instance, if you decide you are going to tell them "I have a Handgun Carry Permit" you may be looking down the wrong end of the muzzle of a Glock by the time the words "I have a Handgun" get out of your mouth. Mind you, I'm not necessarily advocating informing, just trying to give you a safer way to do so.

    Before i could even say anything else, he opens the door, and reaches around and starts tugging on my gun, gets it out and sets it on top the car (very annoying as it was freshly waxed and now probably scratched).
    Did he muzzle sweep you? This sounds like something that would be nearly impossible for him to perform without pointing the muzzle at your legs or whatever. Did he exercise trigger finger discipline? Was it loaded and chambered? Even if it wasn't, did he treat it as though it was? Did you get his name? If he didn't use good gun safety and placed you or others at risk, then you should speak to his superiors.

    He comes back after at least ten minutes and hands my weapon and licenses back to me.
    Did he exercise good gun safety when he brought it back to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallguy View Post
    The law says a LEO can disarm you if he feels it is required for his, your or the public's safety, but it seems some LEOa and LEAs have used this to simply disarm any and all those they deal with regardless.
    Yup...

    TCA 39-17-1351
    (t) Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder.

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    Regular Member Fallguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I am sure the existence of that law is quite dependent on the jurisdiction. Please cite THAT statute law in your jurisdiction.

    We have only the rights that we defend.
    See above
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    Before i could even say anything else, he opens the door, and reaches around and starts tugging on my gun, gets it out and sets it on top the car (very annoying as it was freshly waxed and now probably scratched).
    He opened the driver side door, reached in around to your right side, and attempted to unholster your gun. This sounds like training material for how NOT to disarm someone.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    independence,

    good advice there, i appreciate that. I like to inform LEOs since i always carry on my right side, i dont want to piss one off by handing him my permit after ive already reached in that area. Ive never had a experience like this. I have several friends who are LEOs and Arkansas is a must inform state. Usually in my little town aross the river the reaction is more like...... so what if you have a gun?

    yes, im sure shaking hands does but im sitting down in a little sports car, not exactly out standing shoulder to shoulder with him. I actually get stopped a lot between bikes and my car but never had an officer refuse to shake before, especially on departure.

    I would say he panicked. Why, i dont know, im a 30 year old, in shape, clean shaven, well dressed guy sitting in a porsche, wedding ring, watch etc. Not exactly your typical memphis gangster. Of course it was chambered lol! I was carrying in my crossbreed at about 4oclock so he struggled to get it out. I had to lean up actually. He swept it over my legs then plunked it on my roof which annoyed me. He then handed me back my mag and chambered bullet. When he handed it back to me, the slide was locked back but he did hand it back correctly. he was much more at ease when he came back and warned me about the rise in the pop n stop tactics by locals.



    my best experience getting stopped was in AL, shook the country state police officer's hand, told him i had a weapons permit and glock on me to which he responded (in a very country twang)....... "well, ill make ya a deal son, you dont draw yours and i wont draw mine!" i laughed pretty hard and said "thats a mighty fair deal officer!" Got a warning when i well deserved a ticket!

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    Regular Member skeith5's Avatar
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    One reason to drive with your doors locked...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    I may be wrong, I thought they had to have reasonable cause to run SNs. It seemed excessive considering I'm in a decent car, titled in my name with a license and permit all matching.

    I'm not really mad, I was just sharing my experience. I had never been disarmed before and without warning like that. Common sense would seem he would inform me that he is about to open my door and grab my firearm.
    Hunt up something called the plain view doctrine (google, wiki, etc.). The short story, as I understand it, is that if a cop is in a place that he is legally entitled to be, anything he can see with his eyeballs in plain view is fair game.

    A Supreme Court case called PA vs Mimms improperly expanded temporary weapon seizures during traffic stops. Essentially, during a traffic stop, a cop can temporarily seize a weapon for officer safety for any reason or no reason at all.

    So, once he knows a gun is present or probably present, he can seize it. Then, having seized it, the plain view doctrine kicks in regarding the serial number.

    Your experience seems excessive because it was. You were subjected to a fishing expedition, plain and simple. The numerous reports of traffic stops where the cop simply told the driver not to touch the gun and please keep his hands on the wheel prove that not all drivers are dangerous, nor all guns stolen. If armed drivers were all that dangerous, no cop would fail to seize every gun every time.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    It is possible that a cop who does not seize a gun during a traffic stop is considered a "daredevil" and not following sound police procedures to ensure the safety of the public, the detained, and himself. Though, my cop buddy tells me that his Spidey sense is pretty darn good when it comes to deciding whether or not to seize a gun during a traffic stop. He does not seize guns very often cuz he profiles and he has not been wrong.....yet. It's only weird if it don't work.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It is possible that a cop who does not seize a gun during a traffic stop is considered a "daredevil" and not following sound police procedures to ensure the safety of the public, the detained, and himself. Though, my cop buddy tells me that his Spidey sense is pretty darn good when it comes to deciding whether or not to seize a gun during a traffic stop. He does not seize guns very often cuz he profiles and he has not been wrong.....yet. It's only weird if it don't work.
    Ive been stopped 5 times in the last 2-3 three months and i typically get stopped 2-3 times per year anyway. First time ever having a gun taken off me. profiling and spidey sense? please...... im driving a nice car, perfectly clean, dressed well at 8pm at night. if that activates your spidey sense then you're like the cop in the motorcycle video that compares himself to a soldier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Hunt up something called the plain view doctrine (google, wiki, etc.). The short story, as I understand it, is that if a cop is in a place that he is legally entitled to be, anything he can see with his eyeballs in plain view is fair game.

    A Supreme Court case called PA vs Mimms improperly expanded temporary weapon seizures during traffic stops. Essentially, during a traffic stop, a cop can temporarily seize a weapon for officer safety for any reason or no reason at all.

    So, once he knows a gun is present or probably present, he can seize it. Then, having seized it, the plain view doctrine kicks in regarding the serial number.

    Your experience seems excessive because it was. You were subjected to a fishing expedition, plain and simple. The numerous reports of traffic stops where the cop simply told the driver not to touch the gun and please keep his hands on the wheel prove that not all drivers are dangerous, nor all guns stolen. If armed drivers were all that dangerous, no cop would fail to seize every gun every time.
    yes, this is what LEOs have always said before. i would think LEOs would be least concerned about someone with a valid permit as weapons permit holders probably commit .001257% of gun crime (made up statistic)

    i think these days, pretty much anything goes during a traffic stop, you have virtually zero rights. you can feebly attempt to fight it later if you have money but likely nothing will come of it. That is why i kept my hands on the wheel and my mouth shut.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    It is possible that a cop who does not seize a gun during a traffic stop is considered a "daredevil" and not following sound police procedures to ensure the safety of the public, the detained, and himself. Though, my cop buddy tells me that his Spidey sense is pretty darn good when it comes to deciding whether or not to seize a gun during a traffic stop. He does not seize guns very often cuz he profiles and he has not been wrong.....yet. It's only weird if it don't work.
    For clarification purposes.

    Obviously I do not do what you contend that I do, I am not a cop. I related what my cop buddy stated as his procedure. I suspect that your gun being seized would not have occurred if my buddy had stopped you.

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    We just had a good thread on the WVCDL facebook page on the pro's and con's of informing. The president of WVCDL had an interesting traffic stop a few weeks ago. WV is not a must notify state. There has been some interesting things happen from informing. I will not inform unless I am in a must notify state. I also place my billfold in the console so I don't have to reach for it and keep my registration and insurance over the sun visor.
    I am not a gun nut, nor am I a nut with a gun
    I simply rufuse to be a helpless victim, I may be unable to stop myself from being a victim but at least I wont be helpless

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Dang...

    Quote Originally Posted by eamelhorn View Post
    We just had a good thread on the WVCDL facebook page on the pro's and con's of informing. The president of WVCDL had an interesting traffic stop a few weeks ago. WV is not a must notify state. There has been some interesting things happen from informing. I will not inform unless I am in a must notify state. I also place my billfold in the console so I don't have to reach for it and keep my registration and insurance over the sun visor.
    Ive tried to look it up
    but the face book sends me to woman of west virginia, and other stuff,,, honest i tried...

    please post a link so i can read about the stop... thanx
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    www.facebook.com/groups/WVCDL/ I don't know if I did this right so you can find it. It is a closed group and you need to join on the FB page to post and see post. I am not very good on a PC.
    I am not a gun nut, nor am I a nut with a gun
    I simply rufuse to be a helpless victim, I may be unable to stop myself from being a victim but at least I wont be helpless

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    FYI there's something wrong with someone who gets stopped in traffic 3x per year. (I've been driving since 1967 and only been stopped once and that was in error.)

    In fact, IMO, if a LEO stops you and sees you have a sparkling clean driving record for what 45 years he should be considering you his best friend, lol. That's profiling.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 10-16-2013 at 10:23 AM.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    FYI there's something wrong with someone who gets stopped in traffic 3x per year. (I've been driving since 1967 and only been stopped once and that was in error.)

    In fact, IMO, if a LEO stops you and sees you have a sparkling clean driving record for what 45 years he should be considering you his best friend, lol. That's profiling.
    I deserved each and every stop You could say however, there is something wrong with the way the US targets minor traffic offenses with swat teams. Europe allows faster driving on the interstate and would never stop someone for filtering, splitting lanes, responsible interstate speeding etc. It's all about perspective! Driving faster in europe is much safer though because you know what people will do. For instance, everyone will move out of your way when you flash them instead of brake checking you, sitting in the left lane, etc. No one will pass on the right, stuff like that.

    However, i always tell the LEO what i was doing wrong, i never lie or give excuses or act like i dont know why i was stopped. Seems to go better for me when i do that.
    Last edited by Kopis; 10-16-2013 at 10:40 AM.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis
    I thought they had to have reasonable cause to run SNs.
    Supposed to, but that standard has been abused for so long it's pretty much gone.
    What does the serial # of a pistol have to do with a traffic stop? Nothing. So leave it alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen
    if a cop is in a place that he is legally entitled to be, anything he can see with his eyeballs in plain view is fair game.
    OP said he was carrying at 4:00, sitting in his car. I'm assuming the officer was on the left side of the car, which puts a person between him & the pistol, plus maybe part of the seat. OP said he had to lean forward for the gun grabber.

    Quote Originally Posted by independence
    If he didn't use good gun safety and placed you or others at risk, then you should speak to his superiors.
    +1 Aside from the probable illegality of seizing & searching your gun, he scratched your car's roof & was unsafe, could have shot & killed you, esp. if his trigger habits were similarly bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by skeith
    One reason to drive with your doors locked...
    +1 here too. Always lock the doors. Makes it harder for carjackers, police, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis
    Ive been stopped 5 times in the last 2-3 three months and i typically get stopped 2-3 times per year anyway.
    Apparently your driving habits need some revision, esp. since you say you have a flashy car.
    I get stopped maybe once in 10 years.
    Last time was because I was treating a 2-lane-one-way street as a 2-lane street, and not the 1-lane street the cop thought it was. I was using turn signals, checking for traffic before changing lanes, etc. So he just told me his opinion and not to do it again. He didn't ask about my being armed and I didn't tell.
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