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Experience when stopped by memphis police

Kopis

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
674
Location
Nashville, TN
So i was going to meet up with some friends last night and was zipping down madison in my carrera. Anyway, i forgot a lane ended (ok ill just cut the BS, i really just wanted to grab a gear)! A few seconds later i look back and see blue lights coming up. I rolled the windows down, turned on the lights and put the hazards on. Anyway LEO walks up and i stick my hand out and introduce myself. He refuses to shake my hand and asks for my license. I told him i was armed and was carrying my weapon on my right hand side along with my wallet. Before i could even say anything else, he opens the door, and reaches around and starts tugging on my gun, gets it out and sets it on top the car (very annoying as it was freshly waxed and now probably scratched). I asked if i could reach for my wallet and he give me the go ahead. Got my license but had trouble finding my permit, finally get it out. Anyway, he closes the door and says he's going to run my license and serial number. I was in little position to argue considering how i was driving (i know he didnt radar or laser me but still). He comes back after at least ten minutes and hands my weapon and licenses back to me. He than said, man you are in a pop n stop car or something. I asked him to explain and he said, these guys around here will tap your car, get you to stop then take your ****. I laughed and said, well, thats why i have this glock! He laughed back and said hell yeah, that's your right to defend your ****.

i've never been disarmed and know he unlawfully ran my SN but i was not in a position to argue. He was cool once he realized i wasnt a thug i guess. should've been fairly obvious considering how i was dressed and what im driving. i was just happy to not get arrested or a fat ticket.
 

Kopis

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
674
Location
Nashville, TN
well, right or wrong, im still here and not shot to death. WTF am i supposed to do? grab his hand and resist?
 

Kopis

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
674
Location
Nashville, TN
Thanks James, my point exactly. right or wrong doesnt matter on the side of the road. Im damn sure not going to resist an officer to prove a point.
 

BB62

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
4,069
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
well, right or wrong, im still here and not shot to death. WTF am i supposed to do? grab his hand and resist?
Kopis, if you stick around, you will quickly learn who to put on your ignore list because of incessant and/or unproductive posts.

The poster below your initial post on this thread is the one and only person on my ignore list.
 

Fallguy

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
715
Location
McKenzie Tennessee, USA
One reason I don't inform, although have only been stopped 2-3 times since started carrying.

Now if for some reason I was going to be searched or for some other reason thought the LEO would see it, I would inform before I let them "find" it unannounced. This also why I keep my insurance and registration info on sunvisor instead of glovebox, to keep from having to reach over.

The law says a LEO can disarm you if he feels it is required for his, your or the public's safety, but it seems some LEOa and LEAs have used this to simply disarm any and all those they deal with regardless.
 

SgtScott31

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2011
Messages
158
Location
Nashville
i've never been disarmed and know he unlawfully ran my SN but i was not in a position to argue

I would like to hear your argument as to why you think he "unlawfully" ran your serial number on your weapon.
 

Kopis

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
674
Location
Nashville, TN
I would like to hear your argument as to why you think he "unlawfully" ran your serial number on your weapon.

I may be wrong, I thought they had to have reasonable cause to run SNs. It seemed excessive considering I'm in a decent car, titled in my name with a license and permit all matching.

I'm not really mad, I was just sharing my experience. I had never been disarmed before and without warning like that. Common sense would seem he would inform me that he is about to open my door and grab my firearm.
 

independence

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
339
Location
Tennessee
Anyway LEO walks up and i stick my hand out and introduce myself. He refuses to shake my hand and asks for my license.

This is pretty normal. The cops are trained that shaking someone's hand puts them at a tactical disadvantage.

I told him i was armed and was carrying my weapon on my right hand side along with my wallet.

May I suggest that if you feel the need to inform, that you try a different method? If you choose to inform, then do so by simply handing the officer both your driver's license and permit, with the latter on top. Believe me, I have personal experience with this and they get the idea. This also avoids the possibility of them misunderstanding your words or freaking out when you tell them you have a gun. For instance, if you decide you are going to tell them "I have a Handgun Carry Permit" you may be looking down the wrong end of the muzzle of a Glock by the time the words "I have a Handgun" get out of your mouth. Mind you, I'm not necessarily advocating informing, just trying to give you a safer way to do so.

Before i could even say anything else, he opens the door, and reaches around and starts tugging on my gun, gets it out and sets it on top the car (very annoying as it was freshly waxed and now probably scratched).

Did he muzzle sweep you? This sounds like something that would be nearly impossible for him to perform without pointing the muzzle at your legs or whatever. Did he exercise trigger finger discipline? Was it loaded and chambered? Even if it wasn't, did he treat it as though it was? Did you get his name? If he didn't use good gun safety and placed you or others at risk, then you should speak to his superiors.

He comes back after at least ten minutes and hands my weapon and licenses back to me.

Did he exercise good gun safety when he brought it back to you?

The law says a LEO can disarm you if he feels it is required for his, your or the public's safety, but it seems some LEOa and LEAs have used this to simply disarm any and all those they deal with regardless.

Yup...

TCA 39-17-1351
(t) Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder.
 

Q-Tip

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
102
Location
Mississippi/Tennessee
Before i could even say anything else, he opens the door, and reaches around and starts tugging on my gun, gets it out and sets it on top the car (very annoying as it was freshly waxed and now probably scratched).

He opened the driver side door, reached in around to your right side, and attempted to unholster your gun. This sounds like training material for how NOT to disarm someone.
 

Kopis

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
674
Location
Nashville, TN
independence,

good advice there, i appreciate that. I like to inform LEOs since i always carry on my right side, i dont want to piss one off by handing him my permit after ive already reached in that area. Ive never had a experience like this. I have several friends who are LEOs and Arkansas is a must inform state. Usually in my little town aross the river the reaction is more like...... so what if you have a gun?

yes, im sure shaking hands does but im sitting down in a little sports car, not exactly out standing shoulder to shoulder with him. I actually get stopped a lot between bikes and my car but never had an officer refuse to shake before, especially on departure.

I would say he panicked. Why, i dont know, im a 30 year old, in shape, clean shaven, well dressed guy sitting in a porsche, wedding ring, watch etc. Not exactly your typical memphis gangster. Of course it was chambered lol! I was carrying in my crossbreed at about 4oclock so he struggled to get it out. I had to lean up actually. He swept it over my legs then plunked it on my roof which annoyed me. He then handed me back my mag and chambered bullet. When he handed it back to me, the slide was locked back but he did hand it back correctly. he was much more at ease when he came back and warned me about the rise in the pop n stop tactics by locals.



my best experience getting stopped was in AL, shook the country state police officer's hand, told him i had a weapons permit and glock on me to which he responded (in a very country twang)....... "well, ill make ya a deal son, you dont draw yours and i wont draw mine!" i laughed pretty hard and said "thats a mighty fair deal officer!" Got a warning when i well deserved a ticket!
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
I may be wrong, I thought they had to have reasonable cause to run SNs. It seemed excessive considering I'm in a decent car, titled in my name with a license and permit all matching.

I'm not really mad, I was just sharing my experience. I had never been disarmed before and without warning like that. Common sense would seem he would inform me that he is about to open my door and grab my firearm.

Hunt up something called the plain view doctrine (google, wiki, etc.). The short story, as I understand it, is that if a cop is in a place that he is legally entitled to be, anything he can see with his eyeballs in plain view is fair game.

A Supreme Court case called PA vs Mimms improperly expanded temporary weapon seizures during traffic stops. Essentially, during a traffic stop, a cop can temporarily seize a weapon for officer safety for any reason or no reason at all.

So, once he knows a gun is present or probably present, he can seize it. Then, having seized it, the plain view doctrine kicks in regarding the serial number.

Your experience seems excessive because it was. You were subjected to a fishing expedition, plain and simple. The numerous reports of traffic stops where the cop simply told the driver not to touch the gun and please keep his hands on the wheel prove that not all drivers are dangerous, nor all guns stolen. If armed drivers were all that dangerous, no cop would fail to seize every gun every time.
 

OC for ME

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Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
It is possible that a cop who does not seize a gun during a traffic stop is considered a "daredevil" and not following sound police procedures to ensure the safety of the public, the detained, and himself. Though, my cop buddy tells me that his Spidey sense is pretty darn good when it comes to deciding whether or not to seize a gun during a traffic stop. He does not seize guns very often cuz he profiles and he has not been wrong.....yet. It's only weird if it don't work.
 

Kopis

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
674
Location
Nashville, TN
It is possible that a cop who does not seize a gun during a traffic stop is considered a "daredevil" and not following sound police procedures to ensure the safety of the public, the detained, and himself. Though, my cop buddy tells me that his Spidey sense is pretty darn good when it comes to deciding whether or not to seize a gun during a traffic stop. He does not seize guns very often cuz he profiles and he has not been wrong.....yet. It's only weird if it don't work.

Ive been stopped 5 times in the last 2-3 three months and i typically get stopped 2-3 times per year anyway. First time ever having a gun taken off me. profiling and spidey sense? please...... im driving a nice car, perfectly clean, dressed well at 8pm at night. if that activates your spidey sense then you're like the cop in the motorcycle video that compares himself to a soldier.

Hunt up something called the plain view doctrine (google, wiki, etc.). The short story, as I understand it, is that if a cop is in a place that he is legally entitled to be, anything he can see with his eyeballs in plain view is fair game.

A Supreme Court case called PA vs Mimms improperly expanded temporary weapon seizures during traffic stops. Essentially, during a traffic stop, a cop can temporarily seize a weapon for officer safety for any reason or no reason at all.

So, once he knows a gun is present or probably present, he can seize it. Then, having seized it, the plain view doctrine kicks in regarding the serial number.

Your experience seems excessive because it was. You were subjected to a fishing expedition, plain and simple. The numerous reports of traffic stops where the cop simply told the driver not to touch the gun and please keep his hands on the wheel prove that not all drivers are dangerous, nor all guns stolen. If armed drivers were all that dangerous, no cop would fail to seize every gun every time.

yes, this is what LEOs have always said before. i would think LEOs would be least concerned about someone with a valid permit as weapons permit holders probably commit .001257% of gun crime (made up statistic)

i think these days, pretty much anything goes during a traffic stop, you have virtually zero rights. you can feebly attempt to fight it later if you have money but likely nothing will come of it. That is why i kept my hands on the wheel and my mouth shut.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
It is possible that a cop who does not seize a gun during a traffic stop is considered a "daredevil" and not following sound police procedures to ensure the safety of the public, the detained, and himself. Though, my cop buddy tells me that his Spidey sense is pretty darn good when it comes to deciding whether or not to seize a gun during a traffic stop. He does not seize guns very often cuz he profiles and he has not been wrong.....yet. It's only weird if it don't work.
For clarification purposes.

Obviously I do not do what you contend that I do, I am not a cop. I related what my cop buddy stated as his procedure. I suspect that your gun being seized would not have occurred if my buddy had stopped you.
 

eamelhorn

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
143
Location
ripley wv
We just had a good thread on the WVCDL facebook page on the pro's and con's of informing. The president of WVCDL had an interesting traffic stop a few weeks ago. WV is not a must notify state. There has been some interesting things happen from informing. I will not inform unless I am in a must notify state. I also place my billfold in the console so I don't have to reach for it and keep my registration and insurance over the sun visor.
 

1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
4,365
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
Dang...

We just had a good thread on the WVCDL facebook page on the pro's and con's of informing. The president of WVCDL had an interesting traffic stop a few weeks ago. WV is not a must notify state. There has been some interesting things happen from informing. I will not inform unless I am in a must notify state. I also place my billfold in the console so I don't have to reach for it and keep my registration and insurance over the sun visor.

Ive tried to look it up
but the face book sends me to woman of west virginia, and other stuff,,, honest i tried...

please post a link so i can read about the stop... thanx
 
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