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Thread: Discrimination at job!

  1. #1
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    Discrimination at job!

    I have an issue that happend today and need some help with a responce and advise for a lawer that is pro 2nd admendment.

    I have been requested not to open carry at my place of business and when i questioned my manager about any policies that are in place for no weapons he started getting upset. I explained to him that Ok is a OC/CC state. I also pointed out that most of the people that are imployeed there do carry on a daily basis. No other employee has been ask to not carry, there are no policies that states no weapons, and it is not posted anywere.

    At that time i was told to leave and talk to a lawer. Not to mention my manager said "I want you to know that YOU will be the reason no one will be allowed to have any firearms at work!" As per the law states i did leave since i was told to. However my questions are is it legal for an employer to discriminate and not allow me to carry when others are still allowed? Please note i have no criminal hist. I am a disabled war vet, and give my employer no reason to singal me out.

    Thanks in advance for any info.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    If your wife/gf/significant other says "don't carry in our home" then you don't unless you're willing to lose that wife/gf/so.

    If your employer says don't carry openly / don't talk politics / don't speak any language other than English / don't eat sunflower seeds while on the clock, you Don't. Unless you are willing to lose that employer.

    Seriously...
    They can tell you what to wear, what not to wear and how to wear it when it comes to something as basic as clothing. Why would you think that didn't include other 'accouterments' such as a visible pistol?
    Be thankful that you can carry concealed, at least it's carrying.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 10-11-2013 at 11:33 PM.

  3. #3
    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hlchoppers View Post
    I have an issue that happend today and need some help with a responce and advise for a lawer that is pro 2nd admendment.

    I have been requested not to open carry at my place of business and when i questioned my manager about any policies that are in place for no weapons he started getting upset. I explained to him that Ok is a OC/CC state. I also pointed out that most of the people that are imployeed there do carry on a daily basis. No other employee has been ask to not carry, there are no policies that states no weapons, and it is not posted anywere.

    At that time i was told to leave and talk to a lawer. Not to mention my manager said "I want you to know that YOU will be the reason no one will be allowed to have any firearms at work!" As per the law states i did leave since i was told to. However my questions are is it legal for an employer to discriminate and not allow me to carry when others are still allowed? Please note i have no criminal hist. I am a disabled war vet, and give my employer no reason to singal me out.

    Thanks in advance for any info.
    Welcome to OCDO, Hlchoppers! First, let me say that it's great that you are an open carrier. We will change the world a little at a time!

    Secondly, you need to understand a bit about property rights and the priorities of a business making money...

    If you come over to my house and I don't like blue ball caps and your wearing one, I have a legal right (that is just as sacred as the 2nd Amendment) to tell you to either take it off or leave my property. If you fail to comply, I have a legal right to call the police and have them forcibly remove you for trespassing. Sounds silly, but if you are going to believe in gun rights, you are going to have to believe in property rights, too. Otherwise, we are all hypocrites.

    Also, I agree that most workplace weapons policies are nonsense. However, don't forget that businesses have to make their priority to make money. If you had an ice cream shop and all the servers open carried, then some owners might feel that might be bad for business. They might feel that it didn't fit into their business plan of making as much money as possible. Some customers would love it and some customers would hate it. The customers who hated it wouldn't come there for ice cream. I'm not saying that such a business owner would be correct. I am simply saying that they have a right to run their business how they desire. You should either comply with your employer or find another job.

    If I understand your post correctly, they are okay with you conceal carrying. That is how my work is, too. We are not allowed to open carry but we are allowed to conceal. I am also in a state that allows open carry, but my employer does not. I disagree with their position on this, but I respect their right to make that decision. For me, it's a simple business decision. I willingly give up my right to open carry in exchange for a paycheck. Now you might think that sounds pretty crazy, but that's the reality. If you hate their position so much and just can't stand it, then I respect that. But the way to deal with it is not to defy them. The way to deal with it is to get another job that allows open carry. Try a gun store!
    Last edited by independence; 10-11-2013 at 11:47 PM. Reason: typo

  4. #4
    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Oh and...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hlchoppers View Post
    However my questions are is it legal for an employer to discriminate and not allow me to carry when others are still allowed?
    ...yes. It is legal.

  5. #5
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    Fisrt thank you for quick replys.

    I do agree that you need to repect the business and workplace. My issue is being force to comply with a request that is not a policy. Please understand that the other employees that carry often are displaying and passing around there weapons in plain sight of customers and im the only one being spoken to. Please note when im carri g my weapon stays secured in the holster and lucklly has never had the need to become unholstered. I did explain to my manager before i left that if there was a policy in place i would have no issue following it.

    This issue would be more about questions of does there have to be a policy in place for the intire workplace instead of singling out 1 employee out of aprox 40.

  6. #6
    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hlchoppers View Post
    Fisrt thank you for quick replys.

    I do agree that you need to repect the business and workplace. My issue is being force to comply with a request that is not a policy. Please understand that the other employees that carry often are displaying and passing around there weapons in plain sight of customers and im the only one being spoken to. Please note when im carri g my weapon stays secured in the holster and lucklly has never had the need to become unholstered. I did explain to my manager before i left that if there was a policy in place i would have no issue following it.

    This issue would be more about questions of does there have to be a policy in place for the intire workplace instead of singling out 1 employee out of aprox 40.
    Think of it like this:

    Bob works at ACME and has a mustache. Bob's manager is John and John doesn't mind Bob's mustache. One day Bob decides to grow a full beard. John comes to Bob and tells him that he thinks it is not professional looking to have a beard and that he must shave it. Bob's says, "But we don't have anything in the employee manual about facial hair." John says, "Right, but I am telling you right now that you can't have a beard because I am your manager. Shave it." Bob then escalates the issue up the food chain by going to the department Director. The Director escalates it to the VP of the department who mentions it to the CEO. The CEO then issues an edict to the VP of HR to add a facial hair ban to the employee manual. Has Bob "ruined it" for everyone at the company with either a mustache or beard? Yes, kind of.

    It doesn't have to be in the company policy for your manager to ban you from doing something. For instance, they can ban you from smoking, frowning, cussing, etc. etc. This is life. You can always try escalating up the food chain if you think that there are higher ups more sympathetic to your cause. I am going to guess that wouldn't work, however. The bottom line is that you are going to have to decide how badly you want this job and if you are willing to give up your rights. Does Bob have a legal right to wear a beard? You bet! But it may be a good idea for Bob to give up that right so that he can make a living.

    My work is the same way, with people showing showing off their guns to one another, etc. But executive management gets to draw the lines because it is their company and this is what they've decided. Handing guns around to one another is fine with them but OCing is not. Pretty crazy, I agree. But such is the right of a business owner. Just like the property owner in a previous post. If I don't like blue ball caps on my land, then you better get off or you'll end up in jail!
    Last edited by independence; 10-12-2013 at 12:25 AM.

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Directing how you carry, or for that matter even if you individually are allowed to carry is not illegal discrimination - supporting 1st & 2nd Amendment rights does not put you in a protected class - yes your employer/manager can tell you when, where, and how you may carry on the job. IMHO you are fortunate that you are allowed to carry at all - most employers are not so enlightened.

    The company does not need a rule or policy (formal or informal) to enforce their will.

    A phone call or short consultation with an attorney (usually free) will confirm this - they are within their rights as a private entity. You might also try a local ACLU office for confirmation.

    We try to pick our battles from those that are winnable.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hlchoppers View Post
    I am a disabled war vet, and give my employer no reason to singal me out.
    But he has, I wonder why?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hlchoppers View Post
    I am a disabled war vet, and give my employer no reason to singal me out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    But he has, I wonder why?
    There is good "single out" (i.e. excellant OJ performance) and there is not so good - this is the latter. I would mend that fence.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  10. #10
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    "As far as you know" is the key phrase.
    Please understand that the other employees that carry often are displaying and passing around there weapons in plain sight of customers and im the only one being spoken to.
    Or, just the first employee spoken to. Maybe the manager believes that you are the "reasonable employee" because you do not display and pass around your weapon.

    It is difficult, sometimes, to understand what is going on "around" you because you are not privy to the whole story, if there is more to the story.

    CC and keep your job, or OC and become unemployed.

    Good luck.

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