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Thread: Kicked out of Pentagon City Fashion Centre (Arlington VA) Mall for OC

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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    Kicked out of Pentagon City Fashion Centre (Arlington VA) Mall for OC

    Was in the Apple Store with my girlfriend purchasing an iPad when a security guard stepped between me and the Apple sales rep and said "Sir are you an officer of the law?!

    Me: No, is there a problem ?
    Security: You can't carry a weapon in here.
    Me: Oh, I didn't see a sign at the entrance.
    Security: A security officer is the same as a sign saying no weapons. We have to ask you to leave.
    Me: Ok, can I finish my purchase?
    Security: Yes.

    I conclude the purchase of the iPad. Meanwhile he summons an Arlington PD officer, and the security guard ushers other customers away from my vicinity. (Like I'm some dangerous varmint or criminal!) We conclude the sale and I step out of the store, into the mall area with the officer.

    The officer was very polite, never asked for an ID, or any information. I walk down the escalators and to the street level with him, and my girlfriend. Enroute we had casual conversation and he reiterated I am fully within my right, that he carries off-duty, his father used to OC, but that because it's private property they can prohibit it. He bids me a good evening, I shake his hand, and I depart the mall.

    Over-reaction of mall security, especially considering I am a paying customer, but very well-handled by Arlington PD.

    The mall is: http://m.simon.com/default.aspx?id=157
    I want to keep our founding fathers' visions and rights for this country pure. I implore you to do the same.

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    why you shook his hand?

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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    why you shook his hand?
    Although the mall security was unreasonable and highly unprofessional, the Arlington PD was quite polite, and understanding of my right to carry. He was very respectful towards me, and I wanted him to know the respect was mutual.
    Last edited by cirrusly; 10-12-2013 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Typo
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    So you're a danger to everyone, but they'll hold their breath so you can buy the product? Why not ask to see the Mall security guy's boss? Make them jump through some hoops. In fact, why not call the Mall security office and followup on his unprofessional approach.

    Sounds like a hysterical Apple customer called them on you.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 10-12-2013 at 08:27 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    ...I conclude the purchase of the iPad...
    The biggest advocate we could have had was the Apple store complaining about their security policy because it cost them a sale. I understand you may have needed that one right then; I'm just sayin'...
    Last edited by MAC702; 10-12-2013 at 08:34 PM.
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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    So you're a danger to everyone, but they'll hold their breath so you can buy the product? Why not ask to see the Mall security guy's boss? Make them jump through some hoops. In fact, why not call the Mall security office and followup on his unprofessional approach.

    Sounds like a hysterical Apple customer called them on you.
    Good idea. I will call the Simons mall security office on Monday and ask to speak with the security supervisor. First I'm going to look through the Simons mall code of conduct and see if there is anything about firearms stated.
    I want to keep our founding fathers' visions and rights for this country pure. I implore you to do the same.

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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    The biggest advocate we could have had was the Apple store complaining about their security policy because it cost them a sale. I understand you may have needed that one right then; I'm just sayin'...
    I could still return the iPad and say due to my personal beliefs I will take my purchase to an Apple store where they do not prohibit law abiding citizens carrying sidearms.

    On that note, the Apple store phone number is: (703) 236-1550. For those of you who feel inclined, please feel free to reiterate our discontent with the situation. I think if they get enough calls they may communicate the discontent with the mall security. If you do choose to call, please remember: Arlington PD acted professionally, it was the security causing the scene.
    Last edited by cirrusly; 10-12-2013 at 08:51 PM.
    I want to keep our founding fathers' visions and rights for this country pure. I implore you to do the same.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    I could still return the iPad and say due to my personal beliefs I will take my purchase to an Apple store where they do not prohibit law abiding citizens carrying sidearms.

    On that note, the Apple store phone number is: (703) 236-1550. For those of you who feel inclined, please feel free to reiterate our discontent with the situation. I think if they get enough calls they may communicate the discontent with the mall security. If you do choose to call, please remember: Arlington PD acted professionally, it was the security causing the scene.
    You could try Circuit City. We bought an iPad there a few years ago (I know, it's obsolete now, but I'm older too.) CCity is OC friendly.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    Was in the Apple Store with my girlfriend purchasing an iPad when a security guard stepped between me and the Apple sales rep and said "Sir are you an officer of the law?!

    Me: No, is there a problem ?
    Security: You can't carry a weapon in here.
    Me: Oh, I didn't see a sign at the entrance.
    Security: A security officer is the same as a sign saying no weapons. We have to ask you to leave.
    Me: Ok, can I finish my purchase?
    Security: Yes.

    I conclude the purchase of the iPad. Meanwhile he summons an Arlington PD officer, and the security guard ushers other customers away from my vicinity. (Like I'm some dangerous varmint or criminal!) We conclude the sale and I step out of the store, into the mall area with the officer.

    The officer was very polite, never asked for an ID, or any information. I walk down the escalators and to the street level with him, and my girlfriend. Enroute we had casual conversation and he reiterated I am fully within my right, that he carries off-duty, his father used to OC, but that because it's private property they can prohibit it. He bids me a good evening, I shake his hand, and I depart the mall.

    Over-reaction of mall security, especially considering I am a paying customer, but very well-handled by Arlington PD.

    The mall is: http://m.simon.com/default.aspx?id=157
    For all readers,

    Don't mention signs. If you mention signs, it just gives them a reminder to post signs. Then, even the CC crowd won't be able to carry.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    I thought all Simon Malls were anti?

    I've OC'd at Pentagon City mall, but I suspect the issue was more condition White than a tacit acknowledgement I was right.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    Kicked out of Pentagon City Fashion Centre (Arlington VA) Mall for OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Tess View Post
    I thought all Simon Malls were anti?

    I've OC'd at Pentagon City mall, but I suspect the issue was more condition White than a tacit acknowledgement I was right.
    All Simons malls are no weapons? I'm glad they don't post signs. Doesn't mitigate the fact they deprive us of human rights though.


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    I want to keep our founding fathers' visions and rights for this country pure. I implore you to do the same.

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    All Simons malls are no weapons?
    I guess Simon owned the Mall in Nairobi? Would expect the same results unless there are patrons that prefer to ignore company policy to protect themselves and their family.
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
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    Wait a minute

    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    You could try Circuit City. We bought an iPad there a few years ago (I know, it's obsolete now, but I'm older too.) CCity is OC friendly.
    I thought all Circuit City stores closed 3 years ago???

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    Re: Kicked out of Pentagon City Fashion Centre (Arlington VA) Mall for OC

    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    I thought all Circuit City stores closed 3 years ago???
    Aren't they H.H Greg's stores now?

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    All Simons malls are no weapons? I'm glad they don't post signs. Doesn't mitigate the fact they deprive us of human rights though.


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    If you enter Pentagon City Mall (and I suspect, all Simon-owned malls), there is a sign on the mall entrance door that lists, in very small print, a "Code of Conduct." Way down on the list is a prohibition regarding weapons. If you enter through, say, Macy's, there is no signage.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    The biggest advocate we could have had was the Apple store complaining about their security policy because it cost them a sale. I understand you may have needed that one right then; I'm just sayin'...
    Agree ... there are other places to buy an iPad. Terminating the sale would have made a statement.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    You could try Circuit City. We bought an iPad there a few years ago (I know, it's obsolete now, but I'm older too.) CCity is OC friendly.
    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    I thought all Circuit City stores closed 3 years ago???
    Quote Originally Posted by mpguy View Post
    Aren't they H.H Greg's stores now?
    Circuit City is gone, gone and gone.

    Filed for bankruptcy in 2009, sold off the name and website, which was running for a while by a different company, then finally merged with TigerDirect, and closed.

    Nothing but a memory now.

    TFred

    ETA: Oh, as for HH Gregg, I think they just came along and scooped up many of the former CC buildings in the fire sale.
    Last edited by TFred; 10-13-2013 at 08:35 PM.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    I would make a point to write the PD and thank them.


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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    You could try Circuit City. We bought an iPad there a few years ago (I know, it's obsolete now, but I'm older too.) CCity is OC friendly.
    I meant Best Buy! Sorry, but I have trubbl tipeing.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    Seems to me, reading, that the Apple store didn't have the problem, the security guy did. The Apple guy could have told the OP if he/she didn't allow guns in the store....Also Apple guy could have said it was private property and bugger off...And screw the Mall Ninja...
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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    You could try Circuit City. We bought an iPad there a few years ago (I know, it's obsolete now, but I'm older too.) CCity is OC friendly.
    I thought Circuit City went out of business.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    I could still return the iPad and say due to my personal beliefs I will take my purchase to an Apple store where they do not prohibit law abiding citizens carrying sidearms.

    On that note, the Apple store phone number is: (703) 236-1550. For those of you who feel inclined, please feel free to reiterate our discontent with the situation. I think if they get enough calls they may communicate the discontent with the mall security. If you do choose to call, please remember: Arlington PD acted professionally, it was the security causing the scene.
    Don't tell Apple you will buy an ipad elsewhere, apple wont care because they still get their m9ney. Tell them you will buy a Samsung from best buy instead because 9f this...

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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    After doing some research per the suggestions on this thread, it does appear that the Simons mall posts a "code of conduct" in which very small print on a 8.5" x 11" letter like document does it state that firearms are prohibited.

    First and foremost, I agree this small posted "code of conduct" is better than a big "no firearms" sign being plastered on the door. It allows for plausible deniability / innocence should someone OC through the Simon's mall (I was not aware Simon's was anti-firearms). And as was mentioned previous, if they're reminded to post signs, and do, the CC crowd would lose their right to carry in Simons as well.

    Follow-up question: If there was say, a small 4" x 6" no firearms sign on the door and I accidentally didn't see it, is it likely I would have been arrested? What is the Virginia law state about this? I found:

    Quote Originally Posted by usacarry.com
    Places off-limits when carrying:
    §18.2-308 (O.) : Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited.
    Yet, there was no mention of "private property" or "signage" in VA 18.2-308.

    Obviously, I would not knowingly violate a clearly posted sign on private property, as much as I may strongly oppose their choice to ban firearms, but I was curious as to the legality in case I truly did accidentally proceed into an area where a small sign was posted.
    I want to keep our founding fathers' visions and rights for this country pure. I implore you to do the same.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    After doing some research per the suggestions on this thread, it does appear that the Simons mall posts a "code of conduct" in which very small print on a 8.5" x 11" letter like document does it state that firearms are prohibited.

    First and foremost, I agree this small posted "code of conduct" is better than a big "no firearms" sign being plastered on the door. It allows for plausible deniability / innocence should someone OC through the Simon's mall (I was not aware Simon's was anti-firearms). And as was mentioned previous, if they're reminded to post signs, and do, the CC crowd would lose their right to carry in Simons as well.

    Follow-up question: If there was say, a small 4" x 6" no firearms sign on the door and I accidentally didn't see it, is it likely I would have been arrested? What is the Virginia law state about this? I found:



    Yet, there was no mention of "private property" or "signage" in VA 18.2-308.

    Obviously, I would not knowingly violate a clearly posted sign on private property, as much as I may strongly oppose their choice to ban firearms, but I was curious as to the legality in case I truly did accidentally proceed into an area where a small sign was posted.
    "Follow-up question: If there was say, a small 4" x 6" no firearms sign on the door and I accidentally didn't see it, is it likely I would have been arrested? What is the Virginia law state about this?"

    Management/ownership reserves the right to either summon the police for a charge of trespassing or to overrule their sign at their discretion. At least, this is how I understand it to be. So let's say a jewelry store has a sign posted which bans firearms on their premises but the owner happens to be one of your neighbors. He could simply tell you to ignore the sign and come on in. His store, his property, his whim.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    I work Armed, Uniformed security very close to that mall. I'm talking full on uniform and gun belt, look like a police officer. Sadly, even us guards aren't allowed in the mall with our weapons. We have to disarm if we want to get chipotle or some such. I avoid that mall like the plague.

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