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No firearms sign at Fat Duck Deli and Bakery...so I CC'd and ate there anyway
- Thread starter bebop4one
- Start date
leitung
Regular Member
Spend money elsewhere, leave note with amount you planned on spending and why you didn't.
That's how I plan on handling it.
That's how I plan on handling it.
Right Wing Wacko
Campaign Veteran
So you rewarded them with your money. No consequences to them at all.
Spend your money elsewhere. The only way to win this is to make it cost them! To do otherwise rewards them.
MSG Laigaie
Campaign Veteran
This is truth! Go where you are wanted, not rejected, for your beliefs.
golddigger14s
Activist Member
Although the sticker has no legal weight, I will respect their holophobic rights by not doing business with them. My wallet is attached to my holster, and will gladly take my business to someone who supports my views. It's almost like saying you are Republican, but voting Democrat because they have a cuter slogan. I've seen business cards with a photo of a gun with the red circle slash, separated by an equal "=" sign then a dollar sign with the circle/slash. Get those, and give those out.
jfslicer
Regular Member
I'm just curious, has this ever gone to court? Is there case law to back it?
I was with my better half. That's all there is to it. I saw the sign, said "eff this" and got the look from her. She really wanted to go there so I caved in. Now will I be going back? Absolutely not.
EMNofSeattle
Regular Member
I would contend signs may have force of law, I can find no case law to back up my assertion, but none that contradicts it either.
See when you enter and remain unlawfully In a building it's criminals trespass 1 (rcw 9A.52.070) a gross misdemeanor one of the defenses to .070 is rcw 9A.52.090 which states "the premises reasonably appeared open to members of the public and the actor complied with all lawful conditions imposed for entry" could an aggressive prosecutor (think Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes) who doesn't like guns decide to attempt to make the case you entered unlawfully because you didn't meet lawful conditions imposed for entry? I don't know. But I know of no case law to the contrary which means a prosecution in municipal court, then appeals, most likely, and a legal nightmare for the carrier, long story short, if there's a gun buster on the outside door or window of a private business I don't enter, OC or CC. Why would you want to spend money on a place willing to put a no guns sign on their front door anyway?
See when you enter and remain unlawfully In a building it's criminals trespass 1 (rcw 9A.52.070) a gross misdemeanor one of the defenses to .070 is rcw 9A.52.090 which states "the premises reasonably appeared open to members of the public and the actor complied with all lawful conditions imposed for entry" could an aggressive prosecutor (think Seattle City Attorney Pete Holmes) who doesn't like guns decide to attempt to make the case you entered unlawfully because you didn't meet lawful conditions imposed for entry? I don't know. But I know of no case law to the contrary which means a prosecution in municipal court, then appeals, most likely, and a legal nightmare for the carrier, long story short, if there's a gun buster on the outside door or window of a private business I don't enter, OC or CC. Why would you want to spend money on a place willing to put a no guns sign on their front door anyway?
Trigger Dr
Regular Member
My "GUESS" would be that the sign gives "constructive notice" that entering contrary to the sign would be a trespass.
golddigger14s
Activist Member
When I say no legal weight, I refer to WA only. There are some states that if you have a state approved sign will bar you from bringing in a gun. Here in WA the only places that legally prevent guns are over 21 only establishments (Just talking about restaurant type places right now). If you carry a gun into an establishment like this they can tell you to leave. If you refuse, they can call the police to have you removed for trespass, but not for a "gun" crime.
Being a private business they can ask you to leave for just about anything (no shirt/no shoes/gun/etc). Even a businesses with out a posted mcgoober sticker can ask you to leave (COSTCO for example). If I ever get married/significant other again, and they ask me to go into a place like that. I will open the door let them go in, and advise them to find a ride home (just not mine).
Being a private business they can ask you to leave for just about anything (no shirt/no shoes/gun/etc). Even a businesses with out a posted mcgoober sticker can ask you to leave (COSTCO for example). If I ever get married/significant other again, and they ask me to go into a place like that. I will open the door let them go in, and advise them to find a ride home (just not mine).
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Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
My "GUESS" would be that the sign gives "constructive notice" that entering contrary to the sign would be a trespass.
The real questions are what is a lawful condition and is the sign a notice of trespass. It is a stretch under Wa law to connect the two plus how can anyone prove you actually saw the sign. I for one do not shop where my firearm is not welcome.
What I have done in the past when I have been irritated with a business is send a copy of a receipt from their competitor with a short explanation of why. I have done this with every thing from new cars, Harley Davidson to hamburgers it works. The fact that you actually spent money else where and went to the effort to let them know is a lot bigger motivator than just complaining.
I have drank Starbucks at home and while out since they stated they were going to follow state law. I quit buying anything from Starbucks when they asked us not to carry firearms into their store. In a few months when I have some history I will print out every purchase I made with a debit card at Starbucks during the prior 12 months off of Quicken, almost $500 in the last 12 months not counting cash purchases, and every purchase I have made since from a competitor and send it too them with a brief explanation of why. Pain in the butt to get separate receipts at the grocery store but well worth it.
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EMNofSeattle
Regular Member
It may be a stretch, but will a local city atty attempt to make it? I personally cannot afford criminal charges as the career field I want to enter is competitive enough.... Other people have to keep security clearances etc and a criminal charge can cause problems there. The old saying "you may beat the rap but you won't beat the ride" may come into play.
I'm not saying it will happen, only that it could, and that If an aggressive prosecutor files the charge having to hire a lawyer and go to court can be costly.... And to me it's not worth it, I'm not willing to risk anything like that to spend money at a business that's posted written notice that they don't want it
deanf
Regular Member
Not a valid excuse, in my book. Does she keep your voting pen in her purse also?
golddigger14s
Activist Member
MY philosophy:
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
If you can not afford criminal charges or are that worried about it then you should never open carry anywhere because the sad truth is you could be arrested just about anytime.
You worry way to much about not much IMHO, if you are that worried that something might or could happen you will project that to everyone around you when OC or for that matter CC. That lack of confidence may very well get you in trouble.
Be the guy that the boogie man asks his mom to check the closet for at bed time not the OMG something might happen guy.
How much is your freedom worth? just curious.
jfslicer
Regular Member
This is really where the question comes from. Obviously the law say that you have to "knowingly enter," but does a posted sign count as providing you knowledge? Would it hold up in court. I've seen many times on this form the statement that it holds no weight. But if you notice the sign and enter are you trespassing?
One example I can think of that I haven't seen come up on the forums:
Every hospital I know of has a no firearm sign on the door/window at entry. If you need medical help are you guys all going to stick to your guns and not patronize the medical establishment or would you cc in there? What if you were entering with a loved one (or to see a loved one)? (Or are there hospitals that don't have this signage that I don't know about?)
Sorry he-man but relationships are a compromise. I get what you're saying but I was already in a sh!tty mood and just didn't want to argue. Again, not an excuse but I kind of liked the fact that I was breaking their rule. Won't be going there again so the $7 I spent there is all they're ever going to get from me.
Difdi
Regular Member
And not just for open carry. Nothing prevents a police officer from arresting a jaywalker and putting down treason on the reason for the arrest, after all. If a prosecutor feels like taking it up, you could even wind up in front of a judge and jury for being a traitorous jaywalker. A conviction is extremely unlikely. But the fact remains it's at least theoretically possible.
Well, public hospitals in Washington, even with the signage, would be unable to prohibit guns.
kparker
Regular Member
EMNofSeattle,
Would you please just stop? This is nonsense. Signs at the entrance of places that are open to the public have no legal weight in WA. None. Nada. The reason you're searching for something and not finding it is that it's not there to find.
Would you please just stop? This is nonsense. Signs at the entrance of places that are open to the public have no legal weight in WA. None. Nada. The reason you're searching for something and not finding it is that it's not there to find.
Ajetpilot
Regular Member
I don't stand in the rain outside the door of every establishment and fastidiously read every sign on the door before entering. If I am ever asked to leave (never have been), I will leave and never return.