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Thread: 12 yr old shoots man dead at shooting range

  1. #1
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    12 yr old shoots man dead at shooting range

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=181_1381820483

    I really hope this wasn't in America and it doesn't appear as though it is.

    At least when I was 12 I was smarter than this dumb ass kid and the dumb ass adult instructor.
    Last edited by onus; 10-15-2013 at 10:39 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=181_1381820483

    I really hope this wasn't in America and it doesn't appear as though it is.

    At least when I was 12 I was smarter than this dumb ass kid and the dumb ass adult instructor.
    Conclude from the link this happened outside of Moscow = Russia.

    The Volokolamsk Highway stretches 120 km from Moscow encompassing the two ancient monastery towns of Istra and Volokolamsk.
    http://google.com/books?id=E0s6NbfUT...way%2C&f=false
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Conclude from the link this happened outside of Moscow = Russia.

    The Volokolamsk Highway stretches 120 km from Moscow encompassing the two ancient monastery towns of Istra and Volokolamsk.
    http://google.com/books?id=E0s6NbfUT...way%2C&f=false
    Thanks for the info. No less a tragedy but happy it wasn't in America.

    I assume there would be some serious lawsuits if that happened here.

  4. #4
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    If this story had the word "cop" in it, this thread would be closed. Go figure.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    If this story had the word "cop" in it, this thread would be closed. Go figure.
    If that were the test, your post would have been edited.......it wasn't.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    If that were the test, your post would have been edited.......it wasn't.
    Good one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    If that were the test, your post would have been edited.......it wasn't.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn2S7fq_p1E Bazinga !

    A dead Russian? What a shame.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    If that were the test, your post would have been edited.......it wasn't.
    "Cop" when used in a story, not a member's post.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn2S7fq_p1E Bazinga !

    A dead Russian? What a shame.
    A callous indifference is still calloused - misplaced humor doesn't change that.

    All concerned have family and friends who have lost something not replaceable.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    A callous indifference is still calloused - misplaced humor doesn't change that.

    All concerned have family and friends who have lost something not replaceable.
    ^That

    Might I add that the kid who pressed the trigger will be scarred for life.

    Will he ever trust another person when they tell him something?

    Will he ever have confidence around firearms again?

    Will he suffer PTSD?

  11. #11
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    I have to blame the instructor. Never hand or give a loaded firearm to anyone, ever. When I help my partner at the range I give her the handgun racked open and I hand her the magazine separately (when, for example she's going to shoot the gun I brought). To me it's instinctive.

    Shame on David for making a joke. Sympathy to all involved.

  12. #12
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    davidmcbeth has no shame. davidmcbeth has very little class, and even less in the scruples department. But, we get what we see, he does not hide his shameless, classless, scruplesless self.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Several points of fail, both from the kid & the instructor.
    But I disagree that ensuring the gun was not loaded is one of them.
    A gun sitting on a table is perfectly safe & doesn't need to be unloaded.

    Instructor:
    did not teach firearm safety
    did not demonstrate firearm safety
    allowed / told kid to handle rifle with people downrange
    did not stay close enough to control what the kid was doing with the rifle

    Kid:
    treating a gun like a toy
    ignoring rules 1, 2, & 3

    instructor asked the boy to take the rifle in his hands, without making sure that the weapon at this point was not loaded
    And ignoring the fact that there were people downrange.

    the child apparently jokingly took aim at the people in front of him, and pulled the trigger, fatally hitting the family friend in the head and killing him instantly
    An example of ignoring all 3 rules at once, and what can happen when you do.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Several points of fail, both from the kid & the instructor.
    But I disagree that ensuring the gun was not loaded is one of them.
    A gun sitting on a table is perfectly safe & doesn't need to be unloaded.

    Instructor:
    did not teach firearm safety
    did not demonstrate firearm safety
    allowed / told kid to handle rifle with people downrange
    did not stay close enough to control what the kid was doing with the rifle

    Kid:
    treating a gun like a toy
    ignoring rules 1, 2, & 3


    And ignoring the fact that there were people downrange.


    An example of ignoring all 3 rules at once, and what can happen when you do.
    SOP

    • All guns will be cleared w/action open & no guns touched when anyone is going down range - always.
    • No gun to be handled until line is declared "hot" again - not ever.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    If this story had the word "cop" in it, this thread would be closed. Go figure.
    Only if it said something bad about a cop or something a bad cop did....crap I implied there might be a bad cop out there someplace. Crap, I'm sure I will end up cannon fodder for that suggestion.

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Only if it said something bad about a cop or something a bad cop did....crap I implied there might be a bad cop out there someplace. Crap, I'm sure I will end up cannon fodder for that suggestion.
    There are bad firemen, paramedics, drivers, pilots, spouses, etc, ad nasium - they however are beyong the daily scope of OCDO.

    When a routine of finding and posting a series of such becomes obvious (particularly from certain users), it will not be ignored.

    Things have changed in many ways regarding the beat cop (Officer Friendly) - think we all contributed to that change BUT that is more off-topic than not.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    There are bad firemen, paramedics, drivers, pilots, spouses, etc, ad nasium - they however are beyong the daily scope of OCDO.

    When a routine of finding and posting a series of such becomes obvious (particularly from certain users), it will not be ignored.

    Things have changed in many ways regarding the beat cop (Officer Friendly) - think we all contributed to that change BUT that is more off-topic than not.
    1. I do not have a history of posting stories that present LEOs in a negative light.

    2. The thread I created was factual, or at least simply quotational, I gave no opinion in it what-so-ever.

    3. The story presented law enforcement in a positive light.

    4. Your justification for the closure of my thread is egregiously incorrect, at best.

    5. I am awaiting a response from administration regarding your egregious and borderline abusive moderation.

    6. You engaged our mild dissent and escalated the discourse to the level of argument - it's up to you to shut it down and refocus this thread back to it's original topic. That is your responsibility as a moderator, and IMO you're setting a bad example by engaging in argument that directs conversation far away from the original topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    SOP

    • All guns will be cleared w/action open & no guns touched when anyone is going down range - always.
    • No gun to be handled until line is declared "hot" again - not ever.
    Good advice ... when at a range with a range officer .. I do not take his word that the range is clear .. I double check..I'm sure any range officer would appreciate such action as well.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 10-17-2013 at 01:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    ...5. I am awaiting a response from administration regarding your egregious and borderline abusive moderation...
    Don't hold your breath.

    While folks are referred to the admins to complain about the moderation, those complaints seem to end up in the round file and are unaddressed.

    This particular moderator gets a lot of complaints from several users. IMO, great poster and lousy moderator.

    Awaits moderation of this post.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    davidmcbeth has no shame. davidmcbeth has very little class, and even less in the scruples department. But, we get what we see, he does not hide his shameless, classless, scruplesless self.
    Think what you might, having David here is a good thing. Maybe like having some Tabasco sauce on your breakfast eggs, or pepper spray in the face to keep you alert and for me, adding some humor.

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    He is a waste of bandwidth. I can't imagine anyone thinking anything he posts as having any humor value. He posts unsupported bluster and BS.

    He is more like **** on your eggs.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Think what you might, having David here is a good thing. Maybe like having some Tabasco sauce on your breakfast eggs, or pepper spray in the face to keep you alert and for me, adding some humor.
    Having davidmcbeth "here" is not the issue. What he posts is the issue and his being "here" does serve a purpose. His posts are excellent examples of how not to behave in various situations, especially where state agents are concerned. Not every post is without merit at some level, but the vast majority of his posts are nothing more than drivel.

    His efforts in his home state are better know by those he associates with in person. I can only read what he says he has done, others will have to confirm or deny the validity of the claims he makes.

  23. #23
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Waiting for certain members to blame the gun...
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Having davidmcbeth "here" is not the issue. What he posts is the issue and his being "here" does serve a purpose. His posts are excellent examples of how not to behave in various situations, especially where state agents are concerned. Not every post is without merit at some level, but the vast majority of his posts are nothing more than drivel.

    His efforts in his home state are better know by those he associates with in person. I can only read what he says he has done, others will have to confirm or deny the validity of the claims he makes.
    Ex: I have a complaint filed before our Freedom of Information Commission (an admin body that rules on FOIA appeals in my state) where I asked my local town for guns and magazine invoices etc regarding those that we now have to register in accordance with our new horrible PA13-3 omnibus gun control law passed earlier in the year. Since they want to know what guns we have, I filed FOIA requests of several bodies (Capitol Police, State Police, local police) asking them for records relating to arms that they have which we must now register (I basically copied that part of the law).

    Oddly enough, each one said that it would create a safety risk for individual cops if they were to disclose such records.

    I now have an argument of: why not? How can it be a safety risk? Our law says that we must disclose and our RKBA is to protect ourselves from these same gov't bodies..either all must disclose (you, me, gov't bodies) and, in that case, no safety risk is associated with the disclosure OR the law's disclosure provisions are unconstitutional in that it would infringe on our RKBA. After all, there is a conflict with the 2nd if to own one must subject himself to a risk of death.

    Of course, since I am seeking records - my argument is that no safety risk is associated with disclosure because the law requires us to disclose and the law is presumed to be constitutional (although I don't otherwise agree with this).

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Interestingly, I don't have David on ignore, unlike some other active members here. I'd rather hear from someone that occasionally makes me think he's not all there (no offense, David...) than abrasive persons who burn strawmen repeatedly.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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