Student that has a Gun Control Project

FEric said:

Ahhhh i see. I understand now. And yes ive been doing research all over the place. I have only come up with about 4 slides. 1. Whos the real threat (The person or Gun) 2. What is Gun Control 3. People will second guess attacking someone knowing they can carry and 4. What do I believe

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Are you going to discuss the racial discrimination history of gun control?

What? You did not know that gun control laws (going back all the way to 1621) were designed to prevent racial minorities (and not just Blacks) from having access to firearms? While no longer so specifically focused on race, gun control is still about keeping "those people" from having firearms. Just ask Mayor Bloomberg why he opposes machine guns - except for his bodyguards!

stay safe.

Kopis said:

i would throw this in...... when people talk about gun control, you start hearing about self defense, hunting etc. Well, you don't need 30 bullets in a magazine to hunt, your pistol should only hold 7 rounds etc. The 2nd Amendment was not created for individual defense or hunting but for defense of the nation.

i saw a great quote a few months ago, it had obama saying "no american needs an assault rifle" and in the second picture it had obama "we're sending assault rifles to Syrians to help them overcome a tyrannical government" Pretty ironic.

I'm also not advocating for any action against our government just want to point out the purpose of the second amendment. People need government as much as government needs people.

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People need some parts of government, not all parts of government.

US Dept. of Ed. - Let the states run their own schools.

2011 Appropriation
Total, Department of Education: $43,901,252,000
Total, Discretionary: $68,345,322,000
Total, Mandatory: ($24,444,070,000)

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I do not need government anywhere near as much as you think I need government.

Harvard Study

FEric,

This research paper has generated a lot of buzz: http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

Quick Summary--statistics from throughout the world show that gun control laws don't correlate to murder or suicide rates, i.e. strict gun control laws don't necessarily result in low murder/suicide rates (consider Chicago, DC, and Baltimore), and "weak" gun control laws don't necessarily correlate to high murder/suicide rates. Other societal factors (poverty, education levels, etc.) have a much higher correlation.

In any discussion of statistics, make sure you're clear on the difference between "correlation" and "cause".

Another possible angle: compare the annual number of deaths from motor vehicles (~40k per year) to the annual number of gun deaths in the U.S. Given the scale of the two "problems," ask the following questions:
1. Why don't we need background checks to get a driver's license?
2. Who really needs those large-capacity SUVs? They're more deadly to other drivers and they waste fuel. Maybe we should limit vehicle capacity?
3. Jay Leno has a large collection of cars. He can't possibly use them all. Should he be allowed to have such a large number? How is that any different than collecting guns?

mobiushky said:

*tacticalicity is not a real word, so don't use it.

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But it sounds so cool...lol

DocWalker said:

But it sounds so cool...lol

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I know right? I use it all the time. But then, I'm not doing it for a grade.

I prefer "tacticoolness".

marshaul said:

I prefer "tacticoolness".

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Don't fret, they can both be used! Tacticoolness refers to the level of tacticool present in a persons tacticool kit. Tacticalicity refers to how tacticalicious that kit is. High levels of tacticalicity make the gear a useful tactical device. The more tacticalicious your devices are the higher your level of tacticoolness!

I'm a low speed high drag malfunctioner!

Tacticalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Hey Marshaul and eye95, you guys be careful there. You're dangerously close to skirting the border of agreeing on something...

I'm uniter not a divider. I never like math anyway... (Come where's that badum ching!)

OK, sorry, we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread topic..

Whatever it was.

mobiushky said:

Hey Marshaul and eye95, you guys be careful there. You're dangerously close to skirting the border of agreeing on something...

I'm uniter not a divider. I never like math anyway... (Come where's that badum ching!)

OK, sorry, we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread topic..

Whatever it was.

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Math is the only subject you can always prove the teacher wrong....

Destroy statistics but use them in your favor.

Look up the statistics on countries like Russia, N.Korea, and Mexico all who have stricter gun control but much higher homicide rates.

Look up the statistics that show with out the anti gun cities such as Chicago, New York and a few more our homicide rate is way lower than other countries.

Read the "Not so Wild West" it was a more civilized society before the advance of government and most were armed and carried openly for the most part.

An angle that worked for me in a debate was that government prohibition always makes things worse, just like the unconstitutional drug war , and also alcohol prohibition in the early 20th century.

sudden valley gunner said:

Destroy statistics but use them in your favor.

Look up the statistics on countries like Russia, N.Korea, and Mexico all who have stricter gun control but much higher homicide rates.

Look up the statistics that show with out the anti gun cities such as Chicago, New York and a few more our homicide rate is way lower than other countries.

Read the "Not so Wild West" it was a more civilized society before the advance of government and most were armed and carried openly for the most part.

An angle that worked for me in a debate was that government prohibition always makes things worse, just like the unconstitutional drug war , and also alcohol prohibition in the early 20th century.

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Absolutely, there is no difference whatsoever between our society and that of mexico, that's an easy to destroy argument.

the West had little crime because of low population density, and the authorities that did exist had far more power over people then the authorities in the east. people who deserved to hang certainly didn't get 30 years worth of appeals and a free lawyer in the old west...

you're giving him arguments that are too easy to refute.

OC for ME said:

...your question should be phrased from a individual liberty perspective "What authority does government have to infringe upon your right to bear arms?" ...

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This is a key point.

ALL freedoms need an extremely compelling reason of harm to others to be curtailed, even when not protected outright by the Constitution.

EMNofSeattle said:

Absolutely, there is no difference whatsoever between our society and that of mexico, that's an easy to destroy argument.

the West had little crime because of low population density, and the authorities that did exist had far more power over people then the authorities in the east. people who deserved to hang certainly didn't get 30 years worth of appeals and a free lawyer in the old west...

you're giving him arguments that are too easy to refute.

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Hey, EMN, do you get all of your "facts" from the Brady Bunch?

Fact: population density correlates only loosely with crime rates, and is a very poor predictor of same

http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/proc00/professional/papers/pap508/p508.htm

While population is the strongest predictor for the number of crimes, it is an abysmally poor predictor of crime rates:

http://wcr.sonoma.edu/v5n2/manuscripts/chamlin.pdf

Fact: While the old West may have had harsh sentences, policing itself was sparse and intermittent. While there may be some evidence to suggest that certain methods of active policing can reduce certain crime rates, a quick google search reveals that most criminologists believe there is no evidence to suggest that the threat of capital punishment deters crime. And almost as many believe that stiff prison sentences do little, either (some even argue they may exacerbate things):

http://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/preventing_crime_waves/

http://www.slate.com/articles/busin...007/01/the_irrational_18yearold_criminal.html

http://www.solopassion.com/node/2898

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=82

etc etc etc

Fact: I will continue to "destroy" your arguments so long as you continue to make piss-poor ones.

Deadwood: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0348914/

and

Hell on Wheels: http://www.amctv.com/shows/hell-on-wheels

Were/are not documentaries.

Another instance of indoctrination vs. being taught.

EMNofSeattle said:

Absolutely, there is no difference whatsoever between our society and that of mexico, that's an easy to destroy argument.

the West had little crime because of low population density, and the authorities that did exist had far more power over people then the authorities in the east. people who deserved to hang certainly didn't get 30 years worth of appeals and a free lawyer in the old west...

you're giving him arguments that are too easy to refute.

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And again you need to read....notice the part I said destroy statistics.....by destroying statistics that more gun control countries have less crime by showing strict gun control countries with significant higher crime it helps your argument.

As Marshall pointed out your other arguments are just petty rationalizations not based on fact.

The Not So Wild West is a great book that shows how wrong your Hollywood-Brady campaign version of the West's history is wrong.

There is a much stronger correlation between implementing gun control and increases in the homicide rate. Here is an interesting graph,



Discussion of the source of the data in the graph:
http://extranosalley.com/?p=40843

Even more interesting data related to gun control, homicide rates, etc: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

So what your saying is Chicago isn't the safest place in USA. That goes against everything they tell us since they have some of the strictest gun laws. Who knew?

A little bit of googling lead to this:

Source: http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...lation-discussion/170212-usa-murder-rate.html

Tale of two Cities

A tale of two cities.
The conclusion must be correct --- after all what other explanation could there be.

Tale of Two Cities Chicago, IL vs Houston, TX
Population Chicago = 2.7 million vs Houston = 2.15 million
Median HH Income Chicago = $38,600 vs Houston = $37,000
% African-American Chicago = 38.9% vs Houston = 24%
% Hispanic Chicago = 29.9% vs Houston = 44%
% Asian Chicago = 5.5% vs Houston = 6%
% Non-Hispanic White Chicago = 38.7% vs Houston = 26%

Pretty similar until you compare the following:

Concealed Carry gun law Chicago = no vs Houston = yes
# of Gun Stores Chicago = 0 vs Houston = 84 - Dedicated gun stores plus 1500 - legal places to buy guns- Walmart, K-mart, sporting goods, etc.
Homicides, 2012 Chicago = 806 vs Houston = 207
Homicides per 100K Chicago = 28.4 vs Houston = 9.6
Avg. January high temperature – (F) Chicago = 31° vs Houston = 63°

Conclusion: Cold weather causes murder.​

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and then a little further down:

This is factually inaccurate.

U.S. # of Murders: 14,750.
World Rank (by count): 8 of 207.

U.S. Murder Rate: 4.8 per 100k population
World Rank (by Rate): 103 of 207

Now, lets exclude the murders from:
Chicago: 430
Detroit: 344
DC: 108
New Orleans: 200

That leaves 13,667

Rank for U.S. Excluding 4 listed Cities:
By Count: 12 of 207
By Rate: 108 of 207

Sources: FBI Uniform Crime Report - Murders by City Data
United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime - Murders by Country Data

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Be careful of statistics and the correlation vs causation traps! BTW: Beware of cold weather!!

The thread ends with the best piece of advice:

Logic and Liberals do not mix.

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FEric said:

Hey guys! I currently have a project in Sociology about Gun Control. I started it and ran out of ideas, and figured you all would know best! It is a 14 slide project (On powerpoint) and i am SUPPORTING states that allow either open or concealed carry and AGAINST states not letting guns be outside the homes. I just need some information about why guns should be allowed to carry around. Thanks!

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Welcome to the forum!

You've come to the right site, in my opinion.
Here you'll find arguments based on facts instead of emotion, backed up with citations (well, things get a little emotional here too, at times).

The resources here are tremendous, take your time, read the forums and ask questions, there is a huge pool of knowledge available.

Remember, it's not about guns, it's about control!

Good luck with your paper.

-MH