Student that has a Gun Control Project

EMNofSeattle · Oct 18, 2013

sudden valley gunner said:
And again you need to read....notice the part I said destroy statistics.....by destroying statistics that more gun control countries have less crime by showing strict gun control countries with significant higher crime it helps your argument.

As Marshall pointed out your other arguments are just petty rationalizations not based on fact.

The Not So Wild West is a great book that shows how wrong your Hollywood-Brady campaign version of the West's history is wrong.

really please describe what my hollywood version of the west is.......

the problem is, you're comparing a bunch of third world countries with totalitarian government, high poverty, widespread government corruption, and lower standard of living and then saying "the strict gun control laws in these countries makes them more violent"

no... it doesn't. gun laws are not relevant to crime statistics in anyway. there's plenty of literature that supports that conclusion.

DocWalker · Oct 18, 2013

EMNofSeattle said:
the problem is, you're comparing a bunch of third world countries with totalitarian government, high poverty, widespread government corruption, and lower standard of living and then saying "the strict gun control laws in these countries makes them more violent" .

Sounds like your describing the United States, have you ever been to Detroit?

EMNofSeattle · Oct 18, 2013

DocWalker said:
Sounds like your describing the United States, have you ever been to Detroit?

Is the whole of the United States like detroit?

DocWalker · Oct 18, 2013

EMNofSeattle said:
Is the whole of the United States like detroit?

Just places run by liberals and yes I do believe obama leans the same way as most the dictators in history.

MattinWA · Oct 18, 2013

EMNofSeattle said:
Is the whole of the United States like detroit?

Depends on how scrupulous you choose to base your comparisons

Kopis · Oct 18, 2013

skidmark said:
Are you going to discuss the racial discrimination history of gun control?

What? You did not know that gun control laws (going back all the way to 1621) were designed to prevent racial minorities (and not just Blacks) from having access to firearms? While no longer so specifically focused on race, gun control is still about keeping "those people" from having firearms. Just ask Mayor Bloomberg why he opposes machine guns - except for his bodyguards!

stay safe.

this is true, anything that requires a fee typically restricts lower income people from having the same "right" or access to that right as wealthier people.

sudden valley gunner · Oct 19, 2013

EMNofSeattle said:
really please describe what my hollywood version of the west is.......

the problem is, you're comparing a bunch of third world countries with totalitarian government, high poverty, widespread government corruption, and lower standard of living and then saying "the strict gun control laws in these countries makes them more violent"

no... it doesn't. gun laws are not relevant to crime statistics in anyway. there's plenty of literature that supports that conclusion.

Russia is not a 3rd world country. Seems you are missing the whole point of the post even though I tried to explain it to you, so here it goes one more time...the point is that statistics are useless when it comes to gun control without looking at all the extenuating circumstances.....and that works in our favor....banning guns in these "third world countries" shows gun control doesn't work......

Did you miss the part where if you take out the high gun control parts of our country the statistics drop? Are those parts of our country 3rd world?

At least you stopped claiming how violent the "Wild West" was but you assumed there was no legal process........just a lynching.....Hollywood bull.

sudden valley gunner · Oct 19, 2013

JustaShooter said:
There is a much stronger correlation between implementing gun control and increases in the homicide rate. Here is an interesting graph,

Discussion of the source of the data in the graph:
http://extranosalley.com/?p=40843

Even more interesting data related to gun control, homicide rates, etc: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

Prohibition is the cause of more crime and homicide than weapons.

eye95 · Oct 19, 2013

sudden valley gunner said:
Prohibition is the cause of more crime and homicide than weapons.

That may be true; I don't know. However, that is not what the graph shows. Trends already entrenched pretty much continued after the starts of prohibition and the war on drugs.

Also, what is the definition of "The Wild West"? I would think it goes back further than the 1880's.

Not taking anything away from the chart, though. It does clearly show a correlation between "gun control" and murder--and NOT the one the antis would have everyone believe exists.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

JustaShooter · Oct 19, 2013

eye95 said:
Also, what is the definition of "The Wild West"? I would think it goes back further than the 1880's.

It does, but that is as far back as we have homicide statistics.

eye95 · Oct 19, 2013

JustaShooter said:
It does, but that is as far back as we have homicide statistics.

Gotcha. But the antis all know that wild west that they talk about was before the stats and the murder rate was 10 times higher!

stealthyeliminator · Oct 19, 2013

FEric said:
... I just need some information about why guns should be allowed to carry around. Thanks!

No... You don't. I'm not using force against another person by possession a firearm. The enforcement of gun control legislation is an initiation of force - therefore it - the regulation - is what must by justified. The question should be, why should your neighbor be allowed to use force against you, and use a firearm to do it at that, to prohibit you from possessing a firearm? As the neighbor is the one initiating force against another person, it is their actions that require justification.

carolina guy · Oct 19, 2013

stealthyeliminator said:
No... You don't. I'm not using force against another person by possession a firearm. The enforcement of gun control legislation is an initiation of force - therefore it - the regulation - is what must by justified. The question should be, why should your neighbor be allowed to use force against you, and use a firearm to do it at that, to prohibit you from possessing a firearm? As the neighbor is the one initiating force against another person, it is their actions that require justification.

I suppose since i already know the stats and arguments I would finish with rephrasing the question as "why should gun control exist?" It is a tired argument that some people are too dangerous to allow them to defend themselves. ..but if that is true, why are they allowed to walk free on the streets in the first place...except for a failure on the part of government.

sudden valley gunner · Oct 20, 2013

eye95 said:
That may be true; I don't know. However, that is not what the graph shows. Trends already entrenched pretty much continued after the starts of prohibition and the war on drugs.

Of course it does remember guns don't do anything....

There is massive amounts of empirical evidence that prohibition is a major contribution to crime/murder.....look at the unconstitutional drug war and the havoc it has wreaked.

Also, what is the definition of "The Wild West"? I would think it goes back further than the 1880's.

Depends on what you call the west and wild.

The Wild West has been an entertainment term that has turned into an erroneous thinking of how "the West" was. The west was more civilized and better behaved before government moved in.

Not taking anything away from the chart, though. It does clearly show a correlation between "gun control" and murder--and NOT the one the antis would have everyone believe exists.

Yep it does, even though I have learned to be highly skeptical of charts and statistics because often there is an underlying or unaccounted for information and causation. Levitt's and Dubner did a great job at pointing this out in their books Freakonomics and SuperFreakonomics.

DocWalker · Oct 21, 2013

sudden valley gunner said:
Depends on what you call the west and wild.

The Wild West has been an entertainment term that has turned into an erroneous thinking of how "the West" was. The west was more civilized and better behaved before government moved in.

I agree about the west being more civilized before the goverment got involved; just ask any Native American Indian about how much civilization the US Goverment brought to the West.

The major lesson from history is that if the US Goverment gets involved it will be less efficiant and more costly then eventually fail.....

davidmcbeth · Oct 21, 2013

sudden valley gunner said:
Of course it does remember guns don't do anything....

Depends on what you call the west and wild.

The Wild West has been an entertainment term that has turned into an erroneous thinking of how "the West" was. The west was more civilized and better behaved before government moved in.

.

Obviously. In almost all shows about the west there are scenes of towns with kids, women, etc. They would not have been there if it was not safe. In fact, I would guess that they were safer because people could in the states, carry w/o the need for a permission card.

Guns make good neighbors.

sudden valley gunner · Oct 22, 2013

DocWalker said:
I agree about the west being more civilized before the goverment got involved; just ask any Native American Indian about how much civilization the US Goverment brought to the West.

The major lesson from history is that if the US Goverment gets involved it will be less efficiant and more costly then eventually fail.....

+1

Student that has a Gun Control Project

EMNofSeattle

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DocWalker

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EMNofSeattle

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DocWalker

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MattinWA

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Kopis

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sudden valley gunner

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sudden valley gunner

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eye95

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JustaShooter

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eye95

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stealthyeliminator

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carolina guy

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sudden valley gunner

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DocWalker

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davidmcbeth

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sudden valley gunner

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