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Thread: New Member...lifestyle change

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    New Member...lifestyle change

    Hi all. I couldn't find a "New member introduction" section, so I figured I'd go ahead and introduce myself here.

    I'm a student at CSU, living up in Windsor, and started OCing this June. So far I haven't had any noteworthy encounters aside from the occasional "why do you have that?!" or "Are you a cop?"

    I did have one gentleman thank me for having a CC permit...after unsuccessfully trying to explain that you don't need a CC permit to OC (hence the term concealed carry)...I just conceded to accepting the thank you and going about my way.

    Anyhow, I haven't really come across any other OCers in the real world as of yet, but am excited to meet some other like-minded folks that carry open.

    To open it up, what is the biggest lifestyle change you guys and gals have had to make in order to OC? Perhaps the biggest for me is the fact that I've had to start researching whether or not a business is OC friendly before I leave the house to go somewhere.

    Thanks

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO - some locals should be along shortly to offer their advice.

    Following is a quick rundown with cites:
    http://www.rmgo.org/political/gun-laws
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Loveland

    I have been kicking it around for sometime now after seeing another gentlemen OC at Petsmart. I've been carrying for over a month now in Loveland and have yet to go somewhere that won't let you carry. I have not noticed anyone else carrying either in the area.

    The biggest lifestyle change for me was getting the wife use to being around a firearm. Now that she is use to it we have her signed up for pistol classes and wants to CC. Whenever we leave the house it goes with us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Welcome to OCDO - some locals should be along shortly to offer their advice.

    Following is a quick rundown with cites:
    http://www.rmgo.org/political/gun-laws
    Be sure to click on "read more" when you find your question--the law is rarely as short as the excerpt/teaser shown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyl79 View Post
    I have been kicking it around for sometime now after seeing another gentlemen OC at Petsmart. I've been carrying for over a month now in Loveland and have yet to go somewhere that won't let you carry. I have not noticed anyone else carrying either in the area.

    The biggest lifestyle change for me was getting the wife use to being around a firearm. Now that she is use to it we have her signed up for pistol classes and wants to CC. Whenever we leave the house it goes with us.
    I've found the same thing as well. BBW and Sbux are a couple anti-gunners that I've found, but most of the places I go (grocery store, gas station, etc) seem to allow it (or at least don't disallow it).

    The city of Golden is another one I've had trouble with. I called the Golden PD and the Lakewood PD to ask about it. Lakewood was really helpful and said I might get contacted by a LEO, but as long as I'm not breaking the law there shouldn't be a problem. Golden, on the other hand, said...

    "It's illegal to open carry in Golden. We don't want it in our town, and if we get called we'll arrest you."

    Gotta love that complete disregard for state and federal law, don't ya?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdmccay View Post
    --snipped--
    "It's illegal to open carry in Golden. We don't want it in our town, and if we get called we'll arrest you."

    Gotta love that complete disregard for state and federal law, don't ya?
    Heard a distinct "kaa-ching" there.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    @Grapeshot

    If you've got the money to pay for the bail, the lawyer, and the missed wages, I'd be all in. Therein lies the problem. I know they could be sued for bookoo dollars, but that won't do me much good if I'm in jail.

    Maybe someday I'll work up the gumption to challenge 'em.
    Last edited by jdmccay; 10-17-2013 at 02:52 PM.

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdmccay View Post
    @Grapeshot

    If you've got the money to pay for the bail, the lawyer, and the missed wages, I'd be all in. Therein lies the problem. I know they could be sued for bookoo dollars, but that won't do me much good if I'm in jail.

    Maybe someday I'll work up the gumption to challenge 'em.
    Wasn't suggesting that you fall on your sword or take a hit for the team.

    Even w/o any publicly available statement from that municipality, if they violate state or federal law, they open the door to suit by enforcing this "policy."

    OTOH - if the "policy" is provable, then I suggest that you already have standing under color of law depriving you (via fear of arrest) of that which is otherwise legal.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdmccay View Post
    @Grapeshot

    If you've got the money to pay for the bail, the lawyer, and the missed wages, I'd be all in. Therein lies the problem. I know they could be sued for bookoo dollars, but that won't do me much good if I'm in jail.

    Maybe someday I'll work up the gumption to challenge 'em.
    Remember that both [I]Heller/I] and MacDonald were about guys who did not fall on their swords, but about guys who complained that IF they exercised thrir right they would be impaled by legislation that violated their right to exercise their right. (Yes, you read that correctly.)

    While you may not get SAF to back your case, there are quite possibly a few attorneys in town that understand the contingency fee basis of making money off of sure things. Your state bar association probably has a program that sets up a 15- or 30-minute no-charge consultation. Do check with the folks on this sub-forum to find out who is truely Pro-2A as opposed to someone who says so just to see if they can drive some business their way. (And just because an attorney owns a gun, hunts, or otherwise shoots does not mean he is pro-2A. Lots of Fudds out there.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  10. #10
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    As per the Golden Municipal Code: http://sitetools.cityofgolden.net/Co...asp?CodeID=454

    1. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, wear about their person or under their clothes, or concealed about their person, any firearm, handgun or mechanical gun.

    2. The prohibition of wearing a handgun under one’s clothes or concealing a handgun upon oneself shall not apply to any person in possession of valid state concealed handgun permit and in compliance with federal, state or local laws and regulations.

    3. The prohibition of carrying or concealing a handgun shall not apply to any person carrying or concealing a handgun within a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for the lawful protection of ones person or property while traveling.

    4. It shall be an affirmative defense to this section that the weapon was carried or concealed by such person;

    (a) In defense of home, person or property, when in such home when there is a direct and immediate threat thereto;

    (b) In aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned;

    (c) For use in the course of lawful hunting activities or for transportation in the legitimate sporting use of such weapons, including shooting matches or other target shooting, or trap or skeet shooting, provided that all such weapons being so used shall be unloaded when carried or transported to or from such hunting trip or place of sporting use;

    (d) When such person is a collector or licensed dealer displaying or transporting such weapon for display or sale, or a citizen transporting such weapon for purpose of sale or repair to or from a place of sale or repair provided that all firearms so displayed or transported shall be unloaded at all times; or

    (e) While moving personal property as part of a re-location to a new residence.
    Is that standing enough?

  11. #11
    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    Hey, you're just a couple minutes north of me. I OC in Greeley, where I live, fairly frequently and have never had a problem once. I have also OCed in Loveland, FC, Windsor, and a host of other areas around and no one has said a negative word. I have run into one other OCer who didn't know about this forum as we were both leaving Lowe's.

    As for Golden, they are not part of Denver so it is my understanding that they are subject to pre-emption. I OCed there on Easter weekend this year including at the city park with the big kids' Easter egg hunt and no one said a word, no contact at all. Take that for what it is worth.

    Welcome to the area. Hope to run into you sometime.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" - George Washington
    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

    As always, insert standard IANAL disclaimer here.

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdmccay View Post
    As per the Golden Municipal Code: http://sitetools.cityofgolden.net/Co...asp?CodeID=454
    1. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, wear about their person or under their clothes, or concealed about their person, any firearm, handgun or mechanical gun.

    2. The prohibition of wearing a handgun under one’s clothes or concealing a handgun upon oneself shall not apply to any person in possession of valid state concealed handgun permit and in compliance with federal, state or local laws and regulations.

    3. The prohibition of carrying or concealing a handgun shall not apply to any person carrying or concealing a handgun within a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for the lawful protection of ones person or property while traveling.

    4. It shall be an affirmative defense to this section that the weapon was carried or concealed by such person;

    (a) In defense of home, person or property, when in such home when there is a direct and immediate threat thereto;

    (b) In aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned;

    (c) For use in the course of lawful hunting activities or for transportation in the legitimate sporting use of such weapons, including shooting matches or other target shooting, or trap or skeet shooting, provided that all such weapons being so used shall be unloaded when carried or transported to or from such hunting trip or place of sporting use;

    (d) When such person is a collector or licensed dealer displaying or transporting such weapon for display or sale, or a citizen transporting such weapon for purpose of sale or repair to or from a place of sale or repair provided that all firearms so displayed or transported shall be unloaded at all times; or

    (e) While moving personal property as part of a re-location to a new residence.

    Is that standing enough?
    Nope.

    That ordinance addresses carry concealed and transporting. It never mentions OC and therefore does not limit/restrict that method of carry, which is to what user jdmccay and my subsequent reply referred.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-17-2013 at 06:41 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    I don't know about that interpretation above. This is the sentence in question:

    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, wear about their person or under their clothes, or concealed about their person, any firearm, handgun or mechanical gun.
    The sentence appears to be grammatically incorrect or this is legaleese that I am not familiar with. The "or" just before "concealed" would seem to indicate there is a series of conditions that all stand independent of one another. If this is the case, then the individual conditions would be as follows:
    1. Carry
    2. Wear about their person or under their clothes
    3. Concealed about their person

    In that case, the first two conditions work nicely when separating out into individual sentences:
    1. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any firearm, handgun or mechanical gun.
    2. It shall be unlawful for any person to wear about their person or under their clothes any firearm, handgun or mechanical gun.

    The third ends up grammatically wrong.
    3. It shall be unlawful for any person to concealed about their person, any firearm, handgun or mechanical gun.

    I don't see how it could be interpreted in a grammatically correct way, though. There's a misplaced comma, missing word or words, or flat out mistake in the sentence somewhere. Such as:

    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, wear about their person, or under their clothes, or concealed about their person, any firearm, handgun or mechanical gun.

    OR

    It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, or wear about their person, or under their clothes, or concealed about their person, any firearm, handgun or mechanical gun.

    Or am I missing something?
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" - George Washington
    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

    As always, insert standard IANAL disclaimer here.

  14. #14
    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    Of course, even if the law does say you can't OC, that doesn't mean it is legitimate.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good" - George Washington
    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

    As always, insert standard IANAL disclaimer here.

  15. #15
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    Golden, and many others, have simply never cleaned up their books. Big surprise, I know.

    Colorado Revised Statutes

    CRS 29-11.7-103. Regulation - type of firearm - prohibited.
    A local government may not enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the sale, purchase, or possession of a firearm that a person may lawfully sell, purchase, or possess under state or federal law. Any such ordinance, regulation, or other law enacted by a local government prior to March 18, 2003, is void and unenforceable.

    Carry on.

    Denver is exempt based on being a home rule city. Google it and the Meyer decision for more info.
    Everyone has a photographic memory, some just don't have any film......

  16. #16
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    Golden has knowingly and willfully stated they will violate the pre-emption law and state constitution. Talk to a firearms attorney beforehand (wise in any case, that way if you ever have a problem you aren't in a cold cell, cold calling for help). You may be able to find one willing to take on Golden on a "what if" basis or by direct action should you be arrested.

    If you are and aren't violent or uncooperative, there is no reason for them to hold you for any length of time. The most likely scenario is a ticket and ROR (you may have to walk back to your vehicle/home).

    I have a civil case ongoing over circumstances similar (lawful OC but arrested anyway). It takes people and attorneys pushing back to make these cities know that our rights are not up for whimsical interpretation and denial.

  17. #17
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    Gotcha. Well until then, I've let people who are pro 2a to not spend their money in Golden. Lakewood is just a hop skip and a jump away, and whenever I visit the area I don't bother giving Golden my tax dollars.

    Another lifestyle change that's taken some getting used to

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

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