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Thread: The No-Knock Warrant MUST GO!!

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The No-Knock Warrant MUST GO!!

    Op-Ed from New Jersey of all places... mods, please move as you see fit, wanted to give our Virginia folks a first look at this.

    If Blackstone was correct with his famous formulation:

    "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer,"

    how much more true is it that it is better that we might let a handful of suspected criminals delay arrest in order to prevent the cold blooded MURDER of so many innocent people?

    TFred

    Who Will Protect You From The Police? The Rise of Government-Sanctioned Home Invasions

    "Indeed, if Winston Churchill is correct that “democracy means that if the doorbell rings in the early hours, it is likely to be the milkman,” then it’s safe to say that we no longer live in a democracy. Certainly not in a day and age when the Fourth Amendment, which was intended to protect us against the police state, especially home invasions by government agents, has been reduced to little more than words on paper."

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    The legislature, and certainly the courts are not on the side of the sovereign citizens here.

    I believe it is time for the law-abiding community to call upon all law enforcement officers to stand up, and REFUSE to participate in No-Knock warrants.

    TFred

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    ...call upon all law enforcement officers to stand up, and REFUSE to participate in No-Knock warrants.
    Except that the kind of people that want to be cops LIVE FOR THIS ****.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  4. #4
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    Not all cops

    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Except that the kind of people that want to be cops LIVE FOR THIS ****.
    or those that want to be cops are bad, corrupt, uneducated or "LIVE FOR THIS".
    (The same cannot be said for politicians)

    But I agree, the No-knock Warrant does need to go.
    Last edited by va_tazdad; 10-22-2013 at 12:17 AM.

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Except that the kind of people that want to be cops LIVE FOR THIS ****.
    You know Mac...there was a time in my life that I classified all Red Headed Women as floozies. Nothing wrong with floozies, I had a great admiration for them, BUT

    I got seriously put in my place a few times before I realized that wasn't true. It was really blonds

    Anyway...we can't lump all cops in the same bucket. Granted there is a slod load of them that fit that description....but not all.

    Take away the NK Warrant and you remove 98% of the abuse.
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-22-2013 at 01:36 AM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    When you factor in the Blackstone quote, it all comes together.

    How many no-knock warrants are served because someone's life is in imminent danger? None. The risk / reward ratio is too high for a civilized people to accept or allow to continue.

    TFred

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    Insane we made it to this point, give up so much just so the cops can get that little bag of drugs before it flushes down the toliet!!

    Btw as a dog lover i have additional fears regarding no-knock warrents. Care to guess what happens to the dog, who reacts as any dog would when a door is kicked in a 3am???

    Solutions;
    1. eliminate domestic federal fbi, atf, dea etc. i think the feds have. An argument to be in the customs and immigration business. But overall they are the worst offenders and shouldnt be in domestic law enforcement anyway
    2. Obviously de-criminalize drugs. Drugs probably are vast majority of those warrents.
    3. Since courts and police cant control themselves legislature needs to ban nighttime and no knock warrents. No kicking door in for any reason unless a violent crime is being commited right then.
    Last edited by conhntr; 10-22-2013 at 06:00 AM.

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    I'm starting to see this subject matter as I examined the death penalty.

    Just too many innocent people have died to allow this to continue.

    I would support the death penalty but the guberment just cannot seem not to execute the innocent.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conhntr View Post
    Insane we made it to this point, give up so much just so the cops can get that little bag of drugs before it flushes down the toliet!!

    2. Obviously de-criminalize drugs. Drugs probably are vast majority of those warrents.
    Since fully 50% of the law enforcement owe their employment to dealing with this issue, they're not going to give it up. It enables them to dress up like in the movies and be all macho and stuff.

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    Hmmmm.

    One way to impact things is to deduct for mistakes and errors.

    For example, when LE comes out with their yearly memorial list of officers who died in the "line of duty" and bemoan how dangerous their industry is, a few bloggers can pounce and deduct the number of innocents killed by cops in the same year.

    Cops get injured at a rate of umpty-hundreds a year? Deduct the number of citizens injured by excessive force, unnecessary taserings, being thrown face first into cell benches causing bone damage (actual event happened to a petite young woman, recently in the alternate media), etc.

    When cops say, "We need five million dollars for a new 911 call center," the bloggers point out, "You spent it on the settlement for shooting that unarmed teenager last year. Apparently the $5M wasn't that big of a necessity because you didn't bother training your officers, nor disciplining the shooter-cop."

    Deduct the errors. This is more than fair. Merely fair would be to penalize for errors as a deterent and to incentivize training and oversight. For example, one cop tasers one person unnecessarily, then three cop injuries are deducted from their stats, or $50K is deducted from their "toys" budget, etc.

    Wrong-address no-knock raid without injuries? $100K in asset forfeiture goes to the state general fund. With injuries, all asset forfeiture goes back to the municipality or whatever. With a death, the unit is disbanded.
    Last edited by Citizen; 10-22-2013 at 08:57 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Either we are equal or we are not, a very simple heuristic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Hmmmm. One way to impact things is to deduct for mistakes and errors. [ ... ] Cops get injured at a rate of umpty-hundreds a year? Deduct the number of citizens injured by excessive force, unnecessary taserings, being thrown face first into cell benches causing bone damage (actual event happened to a petite young woman, recently in the alternate media), etc. [ ... ]
    Either we are equal or we are not. That is a very simple heuristic.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  12. #12
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    1. Agreed, the no-knock warrant must go, and the sooner the better.

    2. De-militarize all law enforcement agencies. A good start would be banning the use of military rank and rank insignia. It is highly offensive to me, a retired soldier, to see those insignia on men and women who did not, the way I and others did, earn them.

    3. While I see the need for vests and for a little more firepower than just a pistol, I do think there should be very strict policy in place for the use of the latter. I am also very much against these agencies wearing camouflage and being allowed to cover their faces.

    4. After the events in New York in which undercover officers stood by and watched a man beaten in front of his family, I am also much in favor of curtailing a lot of this clandestine activity and I do mean federal, state, county, and city.

    I doubt that I will live to see any of this come about. For that matter, I doubt that many of our younger members will see it come about.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Even our small towns up here around Boise Idaho have recieved a "gift" from the US goverment at taxpayer expense. Up-Armored, mine resistant vehicles even in towns with less than 10,000 residents. Makes you go HMMMMMMMM?
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    I am also very much against these agencies being allowed to cover their faces.

    .
    Interesting Bit of trivia SFCR,,,,,,It is a felony in Va. and there is NO exception for LEO's. They tend to ignore it though.

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    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Except that the kind of people that want to be cops LIVE FOR THIS ****.
    Yes, as others have stated there are officers that don't fit this description. However it is probably a minority. Police recruiting techniques and hiring practices are skewed towards bringing in highly aggressive adrenaline junkies. Couple this with the fact that the fed.gov is spending record amounts of money on militarizing state and municipal (even college) police forces and of course those toys have to be deployed, just to keep "the boys" happy. Without regular "action" they might get restless and start causing trouble . . .
    When rights are outlawed only outlaws will have rights.

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    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Interesting Bit of trivia SFCR,,,,,,It is a felony in Va. and there is NO exception for LEO's. They tend to ignore it though.
    While I don't doubt you, I would like to see the cite. With Halloween coming up and everything...
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    A cop who acts immorally or enforces immoral law and doesn't like it is no less evil than the cop who does it and gets off on the adrenaline rush.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    While I don't doubt you, I would like to see the cite. With Halloween coming up and everything...
    A Halloween mask is OK.



    § 18.2-422. Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.
    It shall be unlawful for any person over sixteen years of age while wearing any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. However, the provisions of this section shall not apply to persons (i) wearing traditional holiday costumes; (ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons; (iii) engaged in any bona fide theatrical production or masquerade ball; or (iv) wearing a mask, hood or other device for bona fide medical reasons upon (a) the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device, or (b) the declaration of a disaster or state of emergency by the Governor in response to a public health emergency where the emergency declaration expressly waives this section, defines the mask appropriate for the emergency, and provides for the duration of the waiver. The violation of any provisions of this section shall constitute a Class 6 felony.
    (Code 1950, §§ 18.1-364, 18.1-367; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1986, c. 19; 2010, cc. 262, 420.)

  19. #19
    Regular Member Esanders2008's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    A Halloween mask is OK.

    And now we know.
    ...To make my bullets go faster!

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esanders2008 View Post
    And now we know.
    GI Joe said "and knowing is half the battle"

    BUT it isn't

    It's the whole damn thing!

  21. #21
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    (ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons;
    I'll betcha a cop, and his boss, will state that the balaclava is a protective mask.

    Cop exemption is revealed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    A Halloween mask is OK.
    OK year around.

    In Wisconsin, being masked is a sentence enhancement, not unlike being armed was to a disorderly conduct charge.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    OK year around.

    In Wisconsin, being masked is a sentence enhancement, not unlike being armed was to a disorderly conduct charge.
    This an old Byrd Administration law when Va was the KKK center of the south and he was trying to improve the image.

    If you ever wondered where the word Lynching came from, Charles Lynch was a Va Magistrate. He was the Judge Roy Bean of the East but ironically....he punished very few blacks. Mostly people who sympathized with the British.

    Naps history 101.
    Last edited by peter nap; 10-22-2013 at 01:49 PM.

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    I can hardly wait

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Hmmmm.

    For example, when LE comes out with their yearly memorial list of officers who died in the "line of duty" and bemoan how dangerous their industry is, a few bloggers can pounce and deduct the number of innocents killed by cops in the same year.
    I get several calls each year for donations for the injured/died/obese police funds. I'll ask how much they are donating to those innocents injured/killed by the police.

  25. #25
    Regular Member AtackDuck's Avatar
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    relearn old lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by DocWalker View Post
    Even our small towns up here around Boise Idaho have recieved a "gift" from the US goverment at taxpayer expense. Up-Armored, mine resistant vehicles even in towns with less than 10,000 residents. Makes you go HMMMMMMMM?
    I worked in R&D on the MRAP's. they all have the same vulnerability as the tanks of WWII: Molotov cocktails on the engine air intakes and crew compartment air intakes...

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