The No-Knock Warrant MUST GO!!

Nightmare said:

OK year around.

In Wisconsin, being masked is a sentence enhancement, not unlike being armed was to a disorderly conduct charge.

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This an old Byrd Administration law when Va was the KKK center of the south and he was trying to improve the image.

If you ever wondered where the word Lynching came from, Charles Lynch was a Va Magistrate. He was the Judge Roy Bean of the East but ironically....he punished very few blacks. Mostly people who sympathized with the British.

Naps history 101.

I can hardly wait

Citizen said:

Hmmmm.

For example, when LE comes out with their yearly memorial list of officers who died in the "line of duty" and bemoan how dangerous their industry is, a few bloggers can pounce and deduct the number of innocents killed by cops in the same year.

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I get several calls each year for donations for the injured/died/obese police funds. I'll ask how much they are donating to those innocents injured/killed by the police.

relearn old lessons

DocWalker said:

Even our small towns up here around Boise Idaho have recieved a "gift" from the US goverment at taxpayer expense. Up-Armored, mine resistant vehicles even in towns with less than 10,000 residents. Makes you go HMMMMMMMM?

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I worked in R&D on the MRAP's. they all have the same vulnerability as the tanks of WWII: Molotov cocktails on the engine air intakes and crew compartment air intakes...

davidmcbeth said:

I'm starting to see this subject matter as I examined the death penalty.

Just too many innocent people have died to allow this to continue.

I would support the death penalty but the guberment just cannot seem not to execute the innocent.

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This is off topic but I can't let this go unchallenged. Cite please. Prisoner name state and a brief explanation as to the evidence of actual innocence would suffice.

SFCRetired said:

1. Agreed, the no-knock warrant must go, and the sooner the better.

2. De-militarize all law enforcement agencies. A good start would be banning the use of military rank and rank insignia. It is highly offensive to me, a retired soldier, to see those insignia on men and women who did not, the way I and others did, earn them.

3. While I see the need for vests and for a little more firepower than just a pistol, I do think there should be very strict policy in place for the use of the latter. I am also very much against these agencies wearing camouflage and being allowed to cover their faces.

4. After the events in New York in which undercover officers stood by and watched a man beaten in front of his family, I am also much in favor of curtailing a lot of this clandestine activity and I do mean federal, state, county, and city.

I doubt that I will live to see any of this come about. For that matter, I doubt that many of our younger members will see it come about.

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Think about item 3 a little more. If they didn't have relative immunity to small arms and superior offensive weaponry maybe they would not be so hasty to go in like Rambo. I heartily agree with item 2. There is a reason we have a Coast Guard after all. If military tactics were always appropriate we wouldn't need a police force.

davidmcbeth said:

I would support the death penalty but the guberment just cannot seem not to execute the innocent.

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Exactly. I have literally zero qualms with the death penalty in principle.

In practice, however, the government cannot (can never) be trusted with this power.

As far as the OP, I believe ending no-knock warrants (and prohibition, an issue which goes hand-in-hand) really ought to be the #1 priority in America.

All those "issues" debated by partisanites everywhere? Of no consequence whatsoever, by comparison.

I've said it before: no-knock raids are fundamentally and absolutely incompatible with a right to home defense (not to mention that pesky fourth amendment).

And you don't even need to be a gun owner to get yourself killed; any responsible adult is likely to end up dead if they are, for any reason, no-knock raided.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting,

half_life1052 said:

This is off topic but I can't let this go unchallenged. Cite please. Prisoner name state and a brief explanation as to the evidence of actual innocence would suffice.

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especially if you are expecting an intelligent or accurate one.

half_life1052 said:

This is off topic but I can't let this go unchallenged. Cite please. Prisoner name state and a brief explanation as to the evidence of actual innocence would suffice.

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What would you consider to be evidence of actual innocence?

There are a number of people who have been exonerated by DNA evidence before being executed:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/The_Innocent_and_the_Death_Penalty.php

Of course, it becomes much more difficult (and less fruitful) to exonerate somebody by DNA after they're executed. However, it stands to reason that, since we can show innocent folks are sentenced to death, some of them won't come by last-minute exonerating evidence, and will therefore be executed.

Even if it's only once, that's too much.

half_life1052 said:

This is off topic but I can't let this go unchallenged. Cite please. Prisoner name state and a brief explanation as to the evidence of actual innocence would suffice.

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You're kidding? Its well known that innocent folks have been executed. Your google-fu is weak old man. lol

marshaul said:

What would you consider to be evidence of actual innocence?

There are a number of people who have been exonerated by DNA evidence before being executed:

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/The_Innocent_and_the_Death_Penalty.php

Of course, it becomes much more difficult (and less fruitful) to exonerate somebody by DNA after they're executed. However, it stands to reason that, since we can show innocent folks are sentenced to death, some of them won't come by last-minute exonerating evidence, and will therefore be executed.

Even if it's only once, that's too much.

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The flip side to that argument is that the process is working. The process continues after the verdict which is why it takes so many years between conviction and execution (if it ever happens).

davidmcbeth said:

You're kidding? Its well known that innocent folks have been executed. Your google-fu is weak old man. lol

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I wasn't aware that "everybody knows that" qualified as a cite. If Googling was all that it took, why didn't you provide a link instead of a disparaging remark? Is it perhaps that such a cite doesn't exist? You aren't even going to throw Willingham out there? Cantu? None of the media favorites? Have you even studied the issue?

Even after exoneration a prosecutor will claim that they had it right and the "formerly convicted" is guilty. Unfortunately, no-knocks are the state's way of circumventing the appeals process and jump right to the execution phase if the situation presents itself that is.

half_life1052 said:

I wasn't aware that "everybody knows that" qualified as a cite. If Googling was all that it took, why didn't you provide a link instead of a disparaging remark? Is it perhaps that such a cite doesn't exist? You aren't even going to throw Willingham out there? Cantu? None of the media favorites? Have you even studied the issue?

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The historical record can not predict, with absolute certainty, that the last innocent executed by the state was in fact the last innocent to be executed by the state. We must all await for the historical record to be updated with new data.

Translation.....a cite is not needed until after the next innocent is found to have been executed.....by mistake of course.

half_life1052 said:

The flip side to that argument is that the process is working. The process continues after the verdict which is why it takes so many years between conviction and execution (if it ever happens).

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No, if the process was working, these individuals would have never been convicted in the first place.

A last minute exoneration is not something to rely on. The state will do nothing to ensure you have the ability to pursue exonerating evidence.

For your statement to be valid, we would have to be certain that every innocent man on death row has miraculously found exonerating evidence before execution.

I highly doubt this is the case. But, again, it is nearly impossible to prove either way.

Frankly, I don't see any utility in a death penalty when the risk of government abuse (or plain old ineptness) is real. The cost of housing real, genuine threats to society for life pales in comparison to spending on police toys for enforcing the War on Drugs, court proceedings against millions of non-aggressive, non-criminal individuals, overseas adventurism, Federal bloat, etc etc etc.

OC for ME said:

Translation.....a cite is not needed until after the next innocent is found to have been executed.....by mistake of course.

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Where the hell is Citizen??:uhoh:

Cite smite him Citizen :lol:

As concerns my original post: With the proliferation of some of the more violent gangs (MS13 comes readily to mind) and the fact that many of them are armed as well or better than many police departments, I can see LEAs being permitted, under strict guidelines, to use superior firepower. I hold that much of that superior firepower could be in the form of sniper rifles, with only a very few officers authorized military-type weapons. Again, the key phrase is "under strict guidelines".

Regarding vests: I have no problem with officers wearing the type of ballistic vest that is worn under normal clothing. I do have a problem with the military-style "flak jackets" such as I wore on active duty.

On the death penalty and arguments for and against: I would only ask one question, "When was the last time a rich man was executed in the United States?" If one has sufficient funds and can hire the very best legal team available, it is entirely possible to get away with murder, or to at least escape the death penalty.

Again, my premise is that the militarization of law enforcement has led us to the situation we are now in vis-a-vis law enforcement. I do not blame the cops on the street; I blame the politicians who have, consciously or unconsciously, contrived this as a way of intimidating and controlling a citizenry that is becoming more and more dissatisfied and more and more unruly in clamoring for their rights to be respected.

marshaul said:

No, if the process was working, these individuals would have never been convicted in the first place.

A last minute exoneration is not something to rely on. The state will do nothing to ensure you have the ability to pursue exonerating evidence.

For your statement to be valid, we would have to be certain that every innocent man on death row has miraculously found exonerating evidence before execution.

I highly doubt this is the case. But, again, it is nearly impossible to prove either way.

Frankly, I don't see any utility in a death penalty when the risk of government abuse (or plain old ineptness) is real. The cost of housing real, genuine threats to society for life pales in comparison to spending on police toys for enforcing the War on Drugs, court proceedings against millions of non-aggressive, non-criminal individuals, overseas adventurism, Federal bloat, etc etc etc.

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I agree, I've seen way too many cases of either lazy, incompetent, or downright evil cops and/or prosecutors tricking innocent people into false confessions, planting evidence, or leading witnesses into ID'ing the person they want to convict.

I really have no problem with killing those who need to be killed, I just don't trust the system to make that determination.

SFCRetired said:

Again, my premise is that the militarization of law enforcement has led us to the situation we are now in vis-a-vis law enforcement. I do not blame the cops on the street; I blame the politicians who have, consciously or unconsciously, contrived this as a way of intimidating and controlling a citizenry that is becoming more and more dissatisfied and more and more unruly in clamoring for their rights to be respected.

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And yet history repeats it's self and we don't learn from the past. Sad but true power corrupts, this is why we need term limits.

TFred said:

Op-Ed from New Jersey of all places... mods, please move as you see fit, wanted to give our Virginia folks a first look at this.

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Written by John Whitehead, head of the Rutherford Institute, based in our state.

See here.