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The No-Knock Warrant MUST GO!!

TFred

Regular Member
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Oct 13, 2008
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Op-Ed from New Jersey of all places... mods, please move as you see fit, wanted to give our Virginia folks a first look at this.

If Blackstone was correct with his famous formulation:

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer,"

how much more true is it that it is better that we might let a handful of suspected criminals delay arrest in order to prevent the cold blooded MURDER of so many innocent people?

TFred

Who Will Protect You From The Police? The Rise of Government-Sanctioned Home Invasions

"Indeed, if Winston Churchill is correct that “democracy means that if the doorbell rings in the early hours, it is likely to be the milkman,” then it’s safe to say that we no longer live in a democracy. Certainly not in a day and age when the Fourth Amendment, which was intended to protect us against the police state, especially home invasions by government agents, has been reduced to little more than words on paper."
 

TFred

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Oct 13, 2008
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
The legislature, and certainly the courts are not on the side of the sovereign citizens here.

I believe it is time for the law-abiding community to call upon all law enforcement officers to stand up, and REFUSE to participate in No-Knock warrants.

TFred
 

va_tazdad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,162
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
Not all cops

Except that the kind of people that want to be cops LIVE FOR THIS ****.

or those that want to be cops are bad, corrupt, uneducated or "LIVE FOR THIS".
(The same cannot be said for politicians)

But I agree, the No-knock Warrant does need to go.
 
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peter nap

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Oct 16, 2007
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Valhalla
Except that the kind of people that want to be cops LIVE FOR THIS ****.

You know Mac...there was a time in my life that I classified all Red Headed Women as floozies. Nothing wrong with floozies, I had a great admiration for them, BUT

I got seriously put in my place a few times before I realized that wasn't true. :uhoh: It was really blonds:uhoh::uhoh:

Anyway...we can't lump all cops in the same bucket. Granted there is a slod load of them that fit that description....but not all.

Take away the NK Warrant and you remove 98% of the abuse.
 
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TFred

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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
When you factor in the Blackstone quote, it all comes together.

How many no-knock warrants are served because someone's life is in imminent danger? None. The risk / reward ratio is too high for a civilized people to accept or allow to continue.

TFred
 

conhntr

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Mar 11, 2010
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, ,
Insane we made it to this point, give up so much just so the cops can get that little bag of drugs before it flushes down the toliet!!

Btw as a dog lover i have additional fears regarding no-knock warrents. Care to guess what happens to the dog, who reacts as any dog would when a door is kicked in a 3am???

Solutions;
1. eliminate domestic federal fbi, atf, dea etc. i think the feds have. An argument to be in the customs and immigration business. But overall they are the worst offenders and shouldnt be in domestic law enforcement anyway
2. Obviously de-criminalize drugs. Drugs probably are vast majority of those warrents.
3. Since courts and police cant control themselves legislature needs to ban nighttime and no knock warrents. No kicking door in for any reason unless a violent crime is being commited right then.
 
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davidmcbeth

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Jan 14, 2012
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earth's crust
I'm starting to see this subject matter as I examined the death penalty.

Just too many innocent people have died to allow this to continue.

I would support the death penalty but the guberment just cannot seem not to execute the innocent.
 

Maverick9

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Apr 7, 2013
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Mid-atlantic
Insane we made it to this point, give up so much just so the cops can get that little bag of drugs before it flushes down the toliet!!

2. Obviously de-criminalize drugs. Drugs probably are vast majority of those warrents.

Since fully 50% of the law enforcement owe their employment to dealing with this issue, they're not going to give it up. It enables them to dress up like in the movies and be all macho and stuff.
 

Citizen

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Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Hmmmm.

One way to impact things is to deduct for mistakes and errors.

For example, when LE comes out with their yearly memorial list of officers who died in the "line of duty" and bemoan how dangerous their industry is, a few bloggers can pounce and deduct the number of innocents killed by cops in the same year.

Cops get injured at a rate of umpty-hundreds a year? Deduct the number of citizens injured by excessive force, unnecessary taserings, being thrown face first into cell benches causing bone damage (actual event happened to a petite young woman, recently in the alternate media), etc.

When cops say, "We need five million dollars for a new 911 call center," the bloggers point out, "You spent it on the settlement for shooting that unarmed teenager last year. Apparently the $5M wasn't that big of a necessity because you didn't bother training your officers, nor disciplining the shooter-cop."

Deduct the errors. This is more than fair. Merely fair would be to penalize for errors as a deterent and to incentivize training and oversight. For example, one cop tasers one person unnecessarily, then three cop injuries are deducted from their stats, or $50K is deducted from their "toys" budget, etc.

Wrong-address no-knock raid without injuries? $100K in asset forfeiture goes to the state general fund. With injuries, all asset forfeiture goes back to the municipality or whatever. With a death, the unit is disbanded.
 
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SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,764
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
1. Agreed, the no-knock warrant must go, and the sooner the better.

2. De-militarize all law enforcement agencies. A good start would be banning the use of military rank and rank insignia. It is highly offensive to me, a retired soldier, to see those insignia on men and women who did not, the way I and others did, earn them.

3. While I see the need for vests and for a little more firepower than just a pistol, I do think there should be very strict policy in place for the use of the latter. I am also very much against these agencies wearing camouflage and being allowed to cover their faces.

4. After the events in New York in which undercover officers stood by and watched a man beaten in front of his family, I am also much in favor of curtailing a lot of this clandestine activity and I do mean federal, state, county, and city.

I doubt that I will live to see any of this come about. For that matter, I doubt that many of our younger members will see it come about.
 

DocWalker

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Jul 6, 2008
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Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
Even our small towns up here around Boise Idaho have recieved a "gift" from the US goverment at taxpayer expense. Up-Armored, mine resistant vehicles even in towns with less than 10,000 residents. Makes you go HMMMMMMMM?
 

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Running Wolf

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May 10, 2009
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Corner of No and Where
Except that the kind of people that want to be cops LIVE FOR THIS ****.

Yes, as others have stated there are officers that don't fit this description. However it is probably a minority. Police recruiting techniques and hiring practices are skewed towards bringing in highly aggressive adrenaline junkies. Couple this with the fact that the fed.gov is spending record amounts of money on militarizing state and municipal (even college) police forces and of course those toys have to be deployed, just to keep "the boys" happy. Without regular "action" they might get restless and start causing trouble . . .
 

richarcm

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Jul 1, 2008
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Location
Richmond, VA
A cop who acts immorally or enforces immoral law and doesn't like it is no less evil than the cop who does it and gets off on the adrenaline rush.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 

peter nap

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Oct 16, 2007
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Valhalla
While I don't doubt you, I would like to see the cite. With Halloween coming up and everything... :D

A Halloween mask is OK.

:p

§ 18.2-422. Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.
It shall be unlawful for any person over sixteen years of age while wearing any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. However, the provisions of this section shall not apply to persons (i) wearing traditional holiday costumes; (ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons; (iii) engaged in any bona fide theatrical production or masquerade ball; or (iv) wearing a mask, hood or other device for bona fide medical reasons upon (a) the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device, or (b) the declaration of a disaster or state of emergency by the Governor in response to a public health emergency where the emergency declaration expressly waives this section, defines the mask appropriate for the emergency, and provides for the duration of the waiver. The violation of any provisions of this section shall constitute a Class 6 felony.
(Code 1950, §§ 18.1-364, 18.1-367; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1986, c. 19; 2010, cc. 262, 420.)
 

OC for ME

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Jan 6, 2010
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White Oak Plantation
(ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons;
I'll betcha a cop, and his boss, will state that the balaclava is a protective mask.

Cop exemption is revealed.
 
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